U51 Early Preview: Epic Destiny Revamp: Core Framework

[Enderoc]

1.)You are no longer stuck in one destiny but can choose three and use twist of fate for others
2) Your character will earn more points past level 30 making hitting 30 just the beginning of Legendary
3) Any nerfs coincide with the strengths provided in being allowed to utilize several destinies like enhancements
4) Stop wigging out.. everyone always wigs out lol just stop. This only adds a greater level of personalization for your characters.

[Cernunan]

1.)You are no longer stuck in one destiny but can choose three and use twist of fate for others
2) Your character will earn more points past level 30 making hitting 30 just the beginning of Legendary
3) Any nerfs coincide with the strengths provided in being allowed to utilize several destinies like enhancements
4) Stop wigging out.. everyone always wigs out lol just stop

1) Having more points to spend in smaller, less useful abilities is not a great perk.
2) You may be OK with making the trip from 20-30 more tedious and less fun, many do not agree with making those levels less fun
3) Again, loosing your useful abilities to gain many less useful abilities is not an improvement
4) Telling people you don't care if the game becomes exponentially less fun means you will soon have many less people to play with

[GramercyRiff]

1.)You are no longer stuck in one destiny but can choose three and use twist of fate for others
2) Your character will earn more points past level 30 making hitting 30 just the beginning of Legendary
3) Any nerfs coincide with the strengths provided in being allowed to utilize several destinies like enhancements
4) Stop wigging out.. everyone always wigs out lol just stop. This only adds a greater level of personalization for your characters.

You're right it's not a big deal at all. There's lots out there in the world to do that's better than playing an old game that has bad development.

[Enderoc]

No. False choice are just false choices

Okay name one thing about being a draconic shardi that will suck?

[Cernunan]

Okay name one thing about being a draconic shardi that will suck?

Name the perks you get from both.

You can't, draconic is not in the preview

[FranOhmsford]

How about doing a full revamp of XP in Lvl 17+ Heroic Quests so that players at Lvl 20 can earn decent xp in those rather than having to go straight from Lvl 16 quests to Epic quests?

Currently Lvl 17-19 Quests plus Dreaming Dark are literally just FAVOUR FARMS!

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I have a lot of characters, a couple have maxed their destinies, most are part of the way through, I have some destiny pots I haven't used yet.

How is this going to work for players partway through their destinies - You've stated how players with no destinies opened will get all the destinies and you've stated how players who've maxed their destinies will get fate points but you haven't said anything about those who are partway through?

As for destiny pots - Are these going to become useless when this goes live?

Do I have to max destinies on every character that's partway through before this goes live?

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If you're going to add new levels above 30 PLEASE REDUCE the XP required to get from 20-30!

[TFerguson]

There is so much terrible in this new system I don't know where to start.

[Kitma]

At first glance about one of my six chars may still be close to where they already were.

I'm so fed up of the dev team in this game ruining our builds, they clearly have little real idea of how people play.

This revamp is just nonsense.

[Enderoc]

No. Just, no. Please, implement the entire ED system, and permanently and completely throw away this stupid "higher than 30" idea once and for all.

If you are committed to this crazy level cap raise idea, feel free to ignore any and all other feedback I give, because I won't be playing DDO anymore anyway. I experienced when level cap raise from 20, and do not intend to do so again. Why did you bother spending the past few years building up a substantial end game if you plan to just throw it all away again? So stupid.



You talk about "huge variety of options" but mostly it looks like you are homogenizing them to all be carbon copies of each other. Current system has problems, but making them all the same isn't a good solution.

You been here over a decade...any change is for your benefit lol

[easterwhale]

My bear tank was twisting from fatesinger, draconic, shadow dancer, LD , and took epic intimidate for the lack of skills, now screwed.

I am going to use BOTW2 trailer to wash my memories away...

[Discpsycho]

When I look at these ED changes, I see yet another gap between extreme grinders / long-time veterans and more casual players (note the qualifier). I have a half-dozen ETRs on my main (plus Completionist and a dozen racial lives) specifically because I don't enjoy the epic grind.
Frankly, this makes me want to play even less in epics.

IMO, the Twists of Fate system was an acceptable gap between players who had maxed EPLs and players who didn't. The latter were still viable. Each EPL grants passive and active powers that, on their own, justify those lives. Similarly, Racial TRs introduced some power creep via Racial AP, but these are constrained by how little power is socked away in racial trees, especially at lower tiers, and often provide QoL benefits instead (eg, Nothing is Hidden).

Under the new system, there are sixteen AP obtainable from EPLs. If T5 EDs require 21 points and non-ETR'ed players start with 24-27, they're going to be able to invest very little in anything but their primary tree. So long as power is balanced semi-reasonably between T2 and T3 abilities (as they appear to be, similar to the current EDs), ETRs will introduce versatility, but also a lot of raw power.

This discrepancy between players is going to look and feel like the Reaper trees, but some players have had ten years to obtain their EPLs. This new system won't grant any room for progression/improvement on EPL'd characters. Instead (and power creep aside) it will make EPLs (and therefore grind) far more important.

To reiterate a previous comparison, the difference between RTR AP and the new ED AP is quite stark; the amount of grind between the two is comparable, but while RTRs give me something to casually strive for, the imminent ETR changes to AP feel mandatory make these extra points feel mandatory. I'm no doomsayer, and I don't particularly enjoy epics under the current system, but these changes would likely keep me from continuing to play.

I say this not as a threat / promise / warning, but merely as context for my experiences as a player somewhere on the spectrum between the altaholics and the uber-completionists.

[Krell]

So the destiny point reward for all 48 epic past lives is 9 extra destiny points? 48 lives /3 = 16 fate points /3 = 5 destiny points + 4 destiny points for 4 epic completionists.
That represents about 15% of the maximum destiny points available at level 30. Also about 9% of the theoretical available points at level 40. It seems a little low for the investment compared to someone with no epic past lives. I’m thinking 2 or 3 destiny points per epic completionist would be more appropriate for the effort. Compare that to a tier 4,3,2,2,1 twists in any destiny with no unlock costs.

[Propane]

These new ED trees are a mix of the old ED abilities and brand new ones, providing a huge variety of options to players both familiar with our current EDs and hungry for new exciting abilities. As we examine just what made the old Epic Destinies compelling, we're able to make sweeping changes to themes and designs to better support the widest range of available play. You'll see familiar abilities in unfamiliar places, new abilities in the places of old ones, and a lot of radical changes to bring the entire Destiny system together into more of a cohesive whole. We'll have a separate post about the general design notes of the new trees so you can examine the changes in more detail before diving into the trees themselves.

Please consider adding selectable ED spending Trees (similar to Trait Trees in LOTRO- https://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/File:Trait_Tree.jpg ).

For most of my alts - I run with static sub set of Twists - then switch EDs if I want to be defensive or offensive.
Please consider the ability to have 2 or 3 sets of ED point spend saved so we can swap between raiding and questing and high reaper and....

[Mindos]

You're right it's not a big deal at all. There's lots out there in the world to do that's better than playing an old game that has bad development.

[Gljosh]

What happens to the epic reincarnation past life feats? are they remaining as is?

And the Stances? We have a few other systems based on the 4 Spheres...

[Targal]

I am concerned about Destiny Tome. It was meant to lure people in a way that people buy Feydark Ulti pack, but the tome seems less effective now.

I'd like to suggest Destiny Tome lets your Epic Destiny maximum expanded. the current max is 3, and if you have the tome, the max will be 4.

You shouldn't change the tome like that way because your marketing was serious when you released Feydark. Merging them into Epic Destiny AP? No.

[kmoustakas]

NOPE.

Make a new game instead.

[pjstechie]

My hot take feedback:

1) Really dislike T5 being gated at level 30. My current cadence of play is to start running legendary quests on reaper at level 29. I really like that cadence. I am very disinterested in changes that detrimentally impact this cadence and I am very concerned that this will do so. If 30 is where all that power lies, I would expect players to not take level 29 players in legendary reaper questing anywhere near the current frequency. This gating is too restrictive, make it 29 (if not 28). If level 30 needs more bang than the legendary feat, get it elsewhere (like T4 core or some fate points or something).

2) re: Tomes of Fate: so if I understand this correctly, a +3 tome of fate gives me +1 point to spend in epic destiny trees (and +6 hps and +3 sp)? That's really disappointing. I understand you want to put a limit on the number of points we get, but this is a store item that players are going to buy and I would expect unhappy customers who buy a +1 tome of fate and then want to know why they dont get another point to spend in their destinies. Make Tomes of Fate a 1:1 ratio with points to spend in epic destinies. Tomes of any kind should give noticeable benefit not 1/3 of a benefit.

[mikarddo]

My hot take feedback:

1) Really dislike T5 being gated at level 30. My current cadence of play is to start running legendary quests on reaper at level 29. I really like that cadence. I am very disinterested in changes that detrimentally impact this cadence and I am very concerned that this will do so. If 30 is where all that power lies, I would expect players to not take level 29 players in legendary reaper questing anywhere near the current frequency. This gating is too restrictive, make it 29 (if not 28). If level 30 needs more bang than the legendary feat, get it elsewhere (like T4 core or some fate points or something).

2) re: Tomes of Fate: so if I understand this correctly, a +3 tome of fate gives me +1 point to spend in epic destiny trees (and +6 hps and +3 sp)? That's really disappointing. I understand you want to put a limit on the number of points we get, but this is a store item that players are going to buy and I would expect unhappy customers who buy a +1 tome of fate and then want to know why they dont get another point to spend in their destinies. Make Tomes of Fate a 1:1 ratio with points to spend in epic destinies. Tomes of any kind should give noticeable benefit not 1/3 of a benefit.

1) Completely agree.

2) Currently a +1 tome may also do nothing though if another point does not allow you to take a higher level twist. So thats pretty much the same.

[duelsidearms]

Some Ideas:

1) Adjust the level gating to be comparable to Heroics.

- T5 in Heroics is unlocked at lvl 12. Why not have T5 Epics unlock at 26 instead, or something other that lvl 30?

2) Current ED Cores are auto-granted. They are not in the new system.

- Why not auto grant cores in the new system, but have them gated like in Heroics. Super Awesome Core Ability at lvl 28 and 30 perhaps?

3) Charges are limited by sphere. Builders and Spenders share cooldowns. (If I'm reading that correctly)

- Separate these by Destiny selection. i.e. If I have two Martial Destinies active, let me accumulate more charges, or have their Builder/Spender abilities on separate cooldowns.
- Alternatively, separate the Build/Spend abilities so that they do not share cooldowns if they are abilities from two (or more) different Spheres.

Also, I think there is some confusion people are having as to the difference between Fate Points and Destiny Points. It would probably help us to know more about how Destiny points are accumulated. All I've deciphered so far is that they are gained automatically by reaching 20, just by freely unlocking all of the spheres (if you haven't already), and by EPL's.

Will Destiny Points be like Enhancement points? Will we gain them as we level up in Epics, like Heroics, at a rate of 4 (or more) each Epic level?

If so, Heroic leveling to 20 nets us a base of 80 points to spend across 3+ trees. Having 80+ points to spend across the three trees makes a Huge difference compared to what we're currently seeing on Lamania. I know not all of the tomes, PL, etc. are being calculated as of this preview, but this is a BIG gaping hole in the information we need to make correct calculations necessary to offer recommendations for calibrating this new system.

Thank you for your time in reviewing player feedback.

- D.S. Arms