U51 Early Preview: Epic Destiny Revamp: Core Framework

[Ghlitch]

First I'd like to point out that the whole fate/destiny point usage is needlessly confusing. Why not treat it like racial points and only use the point reward on the third, then give the other hp/mp thing behind the scenes to avoid confusion.

That aside, I like the concept of the new EDs, but hate the execution.

The whole charge/discharge thing is a boring micromanagement system. Since the charges have a time limit, you really can't save them up to do something cool when needed, you have to waste them on some trash mob or do nothing and lose them anyway. And on that note, the things you can do with the charges are pretty lackluster.

Epic moments are gone and the destinies might as well be another heroic enhancement line. Nothing really defines them anymore and they all just blend together into a blah mess of blandness.

[Certon]

I think what upsets me most about this new system is that it feels like a huge nerf. I maxed all my EDs out at level 30 just to get them all available, and I Epic Reincarnated 3 times in Fury of the Wild so I could have a toggle for a little random chaos from time to time, but I hadn't really done much more bouncing down to level 20 to get more past lives, because the benefits were, to be honest, lackluster at best.

Now, I'm going to go from having any tree I want fully available AND a T4, a T3 and a T2 ability from ANYWHERE on the map to not even really having a full tree unless I grind more epic past lives. I was happily DONE with grinding on that toon forever. I'd play her just for fun.

Now, it appears that may not be true anymore. I'll wait and see, but I am HUGELY skeptical.

[Ghustor]

Epic Completionist, rather than granting a Twist of Fate slot, will instead grant a flat +1 Destiny Action Point. You will also earn additional copies of Epic Completionist every 12 Epic Past Lives you earn thereafter. This means that a player with 24 Epic Past Lives will start with 2 copies of Epic Completionist, and will be able to earn 2 more as they reach the 48 total Epic Past Lives. A player with all 48 will have 4 copies of Epic Completionist, for a total of +4 Permanent Destiny Points.

This means that a player with Epic Completionist, all Epic Past Lives, the Tome of Destiny from Feywild, a +3 Tome of Fate, and all unlocked Destiny Trees, will begin level 20 with 19 Permanent Destiny Points (14 from fate, 4 from four copies of epic completionist, 1 from tome).

So, from now to get the 1st completionest we dont need to have 3 PL on each sphere? Will be possible to get the 1st Epic Completionist with 12 PL on the same Sphere?

I need to know this because I need to plan the Epic TR Im doing right now... to get the completionist Ill still need 3 of each or this dosent maters anymore???

[Ghustor]

Epic Destiny Feats no longer have Sphere requirements, as there are no more spheres.

if there is no more Spheres, how will work the Epic Past Lives Feats (the togle) that today we can have active only 1 of each sphere? They will follow the same restrictions they have today???

[Stravix]

if there is no more Spheres, how will work the Epic Past Lives Feats (the togle) that today we can have active only 1 of each sphere? They will follow the same restrictions they have today???

Those have been untouched.

[Ghustor]

Those have been untouched.

idk, the Sphere system was touched and that was about the Sphere system

[Stravix]

idk, the Sphere system was touched and that was about the Sphere system

Just letting you know the devs said that was untouched... idk what else to say xD

[Ghustor]

Just letting you know the devs said that was untouched... idk what else to say xD

ohhh, ty. Sorry, I didn't understand if that was an information you had or just an interpretation. Ty for clarify.

Do you know something about the Epic Completionist requeriments, if they will change for only need 12 Past Lives or at leat the 1st one will need to have 3 on each sphere??

[Stravix]

ohhh, ty. Sorry, I didn't understand if that was an information you had or just an interpretation. Ty for clarify.

Do you know something about the Epic Completionist requeriments, if they will change for only need 12 Past Lives or at leat the 1st one will need to have 3 on each sphere??

That one I don't think they mentioned, but I would assume it would also stay the same.

[kpak01]

While before ED's seemed to have their unique roles
...
Now it seems like all the ED's are becoming rather similar in a lot of ways...

That was my impression also. Every destiny has a stance, every destiny has a charge thingie, blah blah blah. It's like before we had vans, subcompacts, pickups, motorcycles, coupes, and limos, and now we'll have red sedans, blue sedans, green sedans yellow sedans and white sedans. "Loot at all the variety (of colors)!"

[rabidfox]

It's gonna be fun watching a bunch of friends die horrible deaths without being able to twist in stuff on the fly before specific instances(I'll giggle at some of them). No Energy Sheath twist will make Killing Time & VoD exciting; and so many other twists for specific stuff that aided in survival. Sure, we'll have 3 trees, but trying to squeeze in the old utility abilities (meld, energy sheath, cocoon, etc.) isn't gonna be viable for a lot of setups. It's going to get really ugly if they keep the current respec plat costs too, being able to swap destiny + twists on the fly was so great for filling in weaknesses/gaps for quests/raids; I'm going to miss that on-demand pre-zoning-in ability to quickly make swaps/adjustments- that was a huge part of the epic feel. I'm sure I'll adjust but I expect a solid learning curve and a lot of legendary deaths on things that are pretty much on farm with the current setups.

[Taurnish]

Thanks for the information. I agree with several of my fellow DDO players. In heroics a T5 is unlockable at level 12 (if one chooses to obtain the ability as soon as possible). This allows 8 levels of heroics to utilize the T5 ability/buff. Placing an epic T5 ability at level 30 is a bit extreme. A T5 ability at level 20 is not game-breaking but I understand that the DDO team wants to push the ability up a few levels "for balance to all players." I suggest allowing a T5 to be unlocked around level 26 but certainly no later than level 28. Legendary content is coming but I am sure we will have legendary abilities to use. If you wish to make some type of capstone core unlockable at level 30 only then go ahead, but structure epics similar to how you have structured heroics...give players several levels to play the "benefit of the T5 unlocked."

To me this is the most important point to highlight, I have other suggestions for other things but please reconsider the level required to unlock the T5 benefits in epic trees.

--Lorr of Cannith

[Qeistalan]

Epic Completionist, rather than granting a Twist of Fate slot, will instead grant a flat +1 Destiny Action Point. You will also earn additional copies of Epic Completionist every 12 Epic Past Lives you earn thereafter. This means that a player with 24 Epic Past Lives will start with 2 copies of Epic Completionist, and will be able to earn 2 more as they reach the 48 total Epic Past Lives. A player with all 48 will have 4 copies of Epic Completionist, for a total of +4 Permanent Destiny Points.

This means that a player with Epic Completionist, all Epic Past Lives, the Tome of Destiny from Feywild, a +3 Tome of Fate, and all unlocked Destiny Trees, will begin level 20 with 19 Permanent Destiny Points (14 from fate, 4 from four copies of epic completionist, 1 from tome).

Heroic Completionist grants: +2 bonus to all skills and ability scores.
Racial Completionist grants: +2 bonus to all skills and ability scores.
Current Epic Completionist grants: Another Twist of Fate slot.
Proposed Epic Completionist grants: One Destiny point, the equivalent of one Heroic Action Point.

This is a gross malfeasance to ALL Epic Completionists.

In the new update, the benefits for Epic Completionist should be all of the following:
* One additional Destiny Point;
* Unlock access (spend points) in a fourth Destiny Tree,
* Activate two Destiny Mantles simultaneously.

Make this happen, SSG. Make Epic Completionist a reward, not an insult to players.
I am FED UP with short-sighted poorly-designed "updates" that overhauls and nerfs gameplay.

[patang01]

Dire Charge
Dire Charge is no longer an Epic Feat; it can now be found in Legendary Dreadnought.

What an awful change. I am now forced to play my vanguard using legendary dreadnought instead the choices I have made because I like to play a sub dps stun and trip character. I just can't understand why you remove flexibility to force playstyles in this way. Of all the years of grind, for gear, to unlock destinies and classes, for heroic reinc and epic reinc to have you do this.

When I read a while back about a destiny revamp I hope that it would be something that extending existing playstyles into higher levels. Not fundamentally redid years of playstyle and enjoyment, grind and change of tactics to fit the way I play those sub dps characters.

What a waste of time invested.

[LittleLexi]

Heroic Completionist grants: +2 bonus to all skills and ability scores.
Racial Completionist grants: +2 bonus to all skills and ability scores.
Current Epic Completionist grants: Another Twist of Fate slot.
Proposed Epic Completionist grants: One Destiny point, the equivalent of one Heroic Action Point.

This is a gross malfeasance to ALL Epic Completionists.

In the new update, the benefits for Epic Completionist should be all of the following:
* One additional Destiny Point;
* Unlock access (spend points) in a fourth Destiny Tree,
* Activate two Destiny Mantles simultaneously.

Make this happen, SSG. Make Epic Completionist a reward, not an insult to players.
I am FED UP with short-sighted poorly-designed "updates" that overhauls and nerfs gameplay.

On the one hand— we have folks saying that the gulf between the have and have-nots is too big under this new system. Yet here you are wanting it to be even bigger...Remarkable.

You might have missed that you can get Epic Completionist 4 times(12x4) for 4 destiny points. Though I agree that is a convenient, if lame, way to reward something that monumental. However, your suggestions are way overboard, and spit in the face of balance and proximal power level between players.

[Carrow12]

On the one hand— we have folks saying that the gulf between the have and have-nots is too big under this new system. Yet here you are wanting it to be even bigger...Remarkable.

You might have missed that you can get Epic Completionist 4 times(12x4) for 4 destiny points. Though I agree that is a convenient, if lame, way to reward something that monumental. However, your suggestions are way overboard, and spit in the face of balance and proximal power level between players.

Actually no.... a reward of 4 AP (oh sorry, Destiny Points) for 48 lives is pretty remarkable. You get 1 AP, +1 to stat for only 3 lives. And I'm trying to see your point about have and have nots? So because people have been loyal customers for YEARS they should be punished to bring them into balance with someone who has been playing for months? There has to be a better solution than what is being currently offered.

[Qeistalan]

On the one hand— we have folks saying that the gulf between the have and have-nots is too big under this new system. Yet here you are wanting it to be even bigger...Remarkable.

You might have missed that you can get Epic Completionist 4 times(12x4) for 4 destiny points. Though I agree that is a convenient, if lame, way to reward something that monumental. However, your suggestions are way overboard, and spit in the face of balance and proximal power level between players.

I missed nothing. The dev's proposed "benefit" for completing 48 Epic past lives, whether 1 or 4 or 5 Action Points, is a joke. What's remarkable is your thinking that my suggestion is somehow an insult to balance of power. Instead of accepting crumbs from the overlords, Epic rewards need to be EPIC. What I suggest is not over-balanced; it is on-point and makes sense for a true Epic Completionist reward.

[LittleLexi]

Actually no.... a reward of 4 AP (oh sorry, Destiny Points) for 48 lives is pretty remarkable. You get 1 AP, +1 to stat for only 3 lives. And I'm trying to see your point about have and have nots? So because people have been loyal customers for YEARS they should be punished to bring them into balance with someone who has been playing for months? There has to be a better solution than what is being currently offered.

Just because you've had it good for a while, doesn't mean you should always have it that good. Or that having it slightly less good means you are being punished. The devs are trying to smooth out the way power is distributed in Epics with these new changes. There will still be a sizeable discrepancy between the power level of the vets, compared to others; not just within this new system— but also in the bigger picture when you factor in things like sentient weapons and so on.

They're not trying to "bring you in line" to be entirely in tandem with a newbie. We both know that. So quit it with the hyperbole.

I missed nothing. The dev's proposed "benefit" for completing 48 Epic past lives, whether 1 or 4 or 5 Action Points, is a joke. What's remarkable is your thinking that my suggestion is somehow an insult to balance of power. Instead of accepting crumbs from the overlords, Epic rewards need to be EPIC. What I suggest is not over-balanced; it is on-point and makes sense for a true Epic Completionist reward.

I already agreed that merely making Epic Completionist reward action points doesn't feel very epic. It would be better as a feat that did something cool, like the others. They can give us destiny points through other means, such as the milestones of x number of lives etc.

However— your proposals will bring us right back to square one. You want Epic Completionists to have access to a 4th tree—nay, to a second Mantle— at lvl 20. That's huge! It's also becoming clear to me that you don't understand that most other players will never get to the point where, they too, would also have these perks. But that doesn't matter to you, does it?

[Qeistalan]

Just because you've had it good for a while, doesn't mean you should always have it that good. Or that having it slightly less good means you are being punished. The devs are trying to smooth out the way power is distributed in Epics with these new changes. There will still be a sizeable discrepancy between the power level of the vets, compared to others; not just within this new system— but also in the bigger picture when you factor in things like sentient weapons and so on.

They're not trying to "bring you in line" to be entirely in tandem with a newbie. We both know that. So quit it with the hyperbole.

I already agreed that merely making Epic Completionist reward action points doesn't feel very epic. It would be better as a feat that did something cool, like the others. They can give us destiny points through other means, such as the milestones of x number of lives etc.

However— your proposals will bring us right back to square one. You want Epic Completionists to have access to a 4th tree—nay, to a second Mantle— at lvl 20. That's huge! It's also becoming clear to me that you don't understand that most other players will never get to the point where, they too, would also have these perks. But that doesn't matter to you, does it?

What's clear to me is that you expect players who HAVE achieved Epic Completionist, or those who have the fortitude to attain that threshold, should be kept down because "most other players will never get to the point where, they too, would also have these perks".
I don't care if other players never "get there"; that's their choice. If you want to wallow with other chronic underachievers, c'est la vie ... that's your choice and theirs.
As for myself and other Epic Completionists, we have earned the prize; now we deserve a fitting reward for what we've earned.
Keep your nays and howevers; I'm done debating with minoritarians on the forums.

[SpardaX]

Heroic Completionist grants: +2 bonus to all skills and ability scores.
Racial Completionist grants: +2 bonus to all skills and ability scores.
Current Epic Completionist grants: Another Twist of Fate slot.
Proposed Epic Completionist grants: One Destiny point, the equivalent of one Heroic Action Point.

This is a gross malfeasance to ALL Epic Completionists.

In the new update, the benefits for Epic Completionist should be all of the following:
* One additional Destiny Point;
* Unlock access (spend points) in a fourth Destiny Tree,
* Activate two Destiny Mantles simultaneously.

Make this happen, SSG. Make Epic Completionist a reward, not an insult to players.
I am FED UP with short-sighted poorly-designed "updates" that overhauls and nerfs gameplay.

Epic Past Lives are strong. Compared to Heroic Past lives (and especially compared to someone who has none at all) EPLs are VERY strong.
The Twist of fate slot is/was really just gravy. And that's what this free destiny point(s) is going to be.

And just to be clear, this isn't just my thoughts. I watched the Strimtom dev stream, and this question was essentially asked. And the answer was quite plainly: EPLs are strong. Making E-Completionist do something big would be just too OP.

Your reward for doing your EPLs? That give +12% Resistance to all elements, +36 PRR, +20 AC, +60 HP, as a passive base, and then more on top?
Is: The previous sentence. Even the twist of Fate is mainly used by people for just an extra Tier 1 long hanging fruit twist.

If you were asking for 1 Fate point per EPL, (Though even this sounds a bit much if it turns out as 48 extra points. Maybe 1 point per 2 EPLs is what I would personally ask for) instead of 1 FP per 3 EPL, then sure I think that sounds a bit fairer.

But, "These mantles are STRONK so you can only have 1 cause they are build defining"
"GIVE US 2!"

And "These trees are STRONK so you can only have 3"
"GIVE US 4!"

Yea good luck with those friend. And honestly, mate, you won't need 4 trees. I jumped on Lam and after I had my first tree set up and got to tier 3 in my second tree, I had like another 8 or so points to spend. If they gave you access to 4 trees, I think you'd have trouble spending more than like 5 points in all 4 anyway. (Assuming you're actually going for the top of one, and not branching out equally. Which you'd be crazy to do because the Tier 4 and 5 are where the really good stuff is.)