U51 Early Preview: Epic Destiny Revamp: Core Framework

[DRoark]

Removing Twists is going to massacre people that have completed the EDs, and earned the right to pick things for their build as currently available.

I know I use 5 different EDs in mine, as do alot of others. With the new system, not only don't we get access to them, we have to be 30 (+) by the
proposed changes to get the top tier we already unlocked, even in our main Destiny. We see where you're trying to go with this, but it's an Epic Fail.

But wait, there's MORE!

Adding BUILDERS, for skills that simply need a timer, or be passive?.... Seriously... stop. In no way EVER, does this game need another mechanic.

[Stravix]

So, overall, I am liking the looks of this ED pass. Less active abilities, a more staple DDo format in making it like enhancement trees, etc. That said, only 3 cores per ED currently active, and the unlock level of the tiers has me confused.

I know this system is making room for the next level cap increase, but will it happen simultaneously with it? Because if not, there will be fairly significant issues, with people feeling like they are only getting part of the ED system.

Either make EDs end at 30 (and balance unlocks accordingly), and add a new system when you raise the level cap, or tell us this will come alongside the level cap increase, to give us that frame of reference on the level unlock range, because it feels like we are in the dark on something, and without knowing what that is, it's really hard to judge this appropriately.

[Oxarhamar]

It’s obvious that this wasn’t designed with DDO or DND players in mind since it’s a clone system from other MMOs it’s obviously designed to attempt to be for new players who already are used to these types gameplay.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ten...d-spenders.amp

This concept is played out already in other games bringing it here won’t bring new players and it won’t please existing players

[Xgya]

It’s obvious that this wasn’t designed with DDO or DND players in mind since it’s a clone system from other MMOs it’s obviously designed to attempt to be for new players who already are used to these types gameplay.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ten...d-spenders.amp

This concept is played out already in other games bringing it here won’t bring new players and it won’t please existing players

The fact the article you shared is 5 years old gives an idea of just how antiquated the idea is by today's standards.

Sheesh.

[Kelledren]

From what I read I see several issues, but for now I want to discuss just the biggest one to me. The fact that you get your prime Epic abilities at level 30, your first Legendary level, and after your last Epic level makes no sense. This will have negative consequences on the game as well.

Current end game and typical PUG raiding is currently level 28/29 (exceptions exist- R10 etc.). This also aligns with most end game gear ML. Not being able to access your cherry on top Epic abilities until 30 will lead to end game lfms to be 30-30. This will make it harder to group, especially raid groups, and will leave the level 28-29 crowd feeling like the low epic groups now. Not to mention this will get far worse when you increase level cap beyond 30 (which people are already worried about).

Make these abilities available at level 28, so not to bar people from endgame content (and eventually beyond). As someone who is newer and only has a few Epic past lives on each character, I have a lot of grinding to do yet, and with this system as it is would be miserable and probably not worth it.

Legendary Feats at 30 make perfect sense, we’ll because it’s legendary.

[Fefnir_2011]

Please make these attacks look unique as possible. Even if all arcane builders look similar, it will give a massive visual cue while building rotations.

I tried out the new trees on my Barbarian and it was tremendously confusing because I had to rely on my own memory to know which abilities in both my heroic and epic enhancements I'd just cycled through. It's a pain when you can't tell if something hit or not.

[A-O]

This all looks great!!

Love the changes. Love making epic levels actually be progression. And I love that you're finally dealing with the design debt incurred with MOTU release.
Know that there are many who share my opinion. Just work out hte immediate balance issues (meld being OP, etc.) and it'll be received great.

Some things that I would like to see make a comeback in one of the trees are the +1 crit range on blunt weapons that was in LD, as that opened up a few more weapon choices and build options (qstaff, e.g.). Probably hard to fit now and still keep it balanced, though. Consider an alternative for weapon weapon types.

[Chai]

This. Exactly what i'm worried about after sleeping on it. For example passive effects of only 12 epl gives 36 prr. Thats extra 36 prr difference (from 12 out of 48 epl), the difference none player/alt will be able to make smaller without farming epls. Adding action points you can spend in ed trees will make entire epl grind mandatory, once again widening gap between uber completionists and newbies/casuals/alts. It won't affect me personally (except my alts maybe :P), but i'm still wholeheartedly against such change.

This is what I have been thinking too.

People already running around with ~12 more heroic AP and now will be ~12-13(?) more EDP.

[OfElectricMen]

The current approach is way better and smart designed.

No, it isn't.

Better and smarter design would be to move a few of the abilities around in the current spheres, change it so that you advance an entire destiny group at once, and then can ER any destiny from a group that you've capped on hitting level 30 without dealing with or rebuilding karma.

[OfElectricMen]

Know that there are many who share my opinion.

And know that there are many that don't.

[Cernunan]

And know that there are many that don't.

Not to mention all of the players not on the forums, who will log in the day after this goes live to find they are far less powerful, and have lost all of their favorite abilities, making the game far less fun.

I'm sure they will all be OK with the loss of fun and keep playing, because who doesn't love playing an unfun game of endless grind

[Cordovan]

So what happens if for example, you're level 23~ when this goes live. Your first destiny feat jumps from 26 to 22 and so you've missed taking it?

A lot of the shifting over from old to new will likely happen as part of the one-time onboarding process for Epic Destinies, but for sure we'll have to figure out how best to give existing characters are various levels the opportunity to adjust.

I found the biggest takeaway from todays live stream with the devs ( https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1058055353 ) that isn't currently mentioned in a dev post on the forums is that they plan to reduce the mob HP bloat/scaling that exists in early epics where there's an old system in play for how mobs are setup. So while we'll be dealing with the new gating, the mobs at 20 will be also nerf'd down. Obviously we'll have to see how loss of things like hunts end (etc.) at 20 effect out ability to clear quests effectively vs the modified scaling of NPCs but it has potential to be fine once all the changes go thru...

edit: ~12:30 into the video for anyone looking for the specific mention of it.

Monster statting both from 20-30 and at end game is something we will be working on, and yes, we'll make sure that info and work isn't just in a livestream video. Thank you for bringing it up in this thread!

They need to massively lower hp bloat in legendary too, with new trees, even at 30 you'll have fraction of power you have now. And less DC's for casters, since they are taking away stat bonuses from EDs.

Stat bonuses may be going away as an expected spend in the new Epic Destiny system, but you'll certainly have ways to increase your stats between 20 and 30. If DCs become a concern it is something we'll sort through, but this work will take that kind of thing into account.

Thanks everyone for a lot of excellent feedback so far!

[Vordax]

Monster statting both from 20-30 and at end game is something we will be working on, and yes, we'll make sure that info and work isn't just in a livestream video. Thank you for bringing it up in this thread!

My worry is that this work will be worked on after the ED revamp, and eventually be completed somewhere around 2030.

[A-O]

And know that there are many that don't.

Wait, you mean to tell me the DDO community is filled with short-sighted people who only care about what happens to their character and nothing else? If they get buffed they're quiet, if they get nerfed they raise hell?
Please tell me it's not so!! I always thought this community was filled with rational people. How can I have been so wrong?

/s

[Pandjed]

A lot of the shifting over from old to new will likely happen as part of the one-time onboarding process for Epic Destinies, but for sure we'll have to figure out how best to give existing characters are various levels the opportunity to adjust.



Monster statting both from 20-30 and at end game is something we will be working on, and yes, we'll make sure that info and work isn't just in a livestream video. Thank you for bringing it up in this thread!



Stat bonuses may be going away as an expected spend in the new Epic Destiny system, but you'll certainly have ways to increase your stats between 20 and 30. If DCs become a concern it is something we'll sort through, but this work will take that kind of thing into account.

Thanks everyone for a lot of excellent feedback so far!

Cordovan, you don't appear on the Lamannia Dev Tracker.

[Ghustor]

deleted. Sorry for the duplicated post

[superevbully]

This is going to be a nightmarish cluster-flop of Epic proportions, doomed to destroy the spaghetti-code. Period.

Im feeling the same all my years of work to watch this unfold .........im upset

[Ghustor]

the Tome of Destiny from Feywild

Since Feywild is now avaliabe from DDO Points, will be the tome too? If in this new system I wanna this +1 Destiny Point from the tome but I already buyed Feywild from DDO Points, should be some way to get the Tome without the need to re-buy feywild, otherwise Ill had wasted 2500 DDO Points

[Propane]

Greetings! This is a pretty crazy read, so buckle up!

Epic Completionist, rather than granting a Twist of Fate slot, will instead grant a flat +1 Destiny Action Point. You will also earn additional copies of Epic Completionist every 12 Epic Past Lives you earn thereafter. This means that a player with 24 Epic Past Lives will start with 2 copies of Epic Completionist, and will be able to earn 2 more as they reach the 48 total Epic Past Lives. A player with all 48 will have 4 copies of Epic Completionist, for a total of +4 Permanent Destiny Points.

Epic Completionist on live has a large impact and was worth the grind to get.
This new reward is lacking - makes me feel like I wasted my time - please consider something more / different...
I would have shifted focus to alts than grind out this many lives on one alt...

Suggestion - front load it with 4 Destiny points and done.
For those who want more Destiny points than can keep grinding Epic past lives to what even limit / cap is in place.

[Selvera]

So with just a preliminary look over several of the ED's and the notes here what I noticed was a prevailing theme is that this push to "make the ED's more interesting and unique and less about the numbers" seems to have

1) removed a lot of the most powerful abilities in each of the ED's which made them unique and different; such as master's blitz; everything is nothing; dimension door/meld/consume; and avatar of nature; and replaced them with abilities which either we already had universally (dire charge/frog) or kind of feels wierd (wierd anyone? When was shadow dancer supposed to be a caster tree? And why am I no longer allowed to have a dex assassin use it?)

2) While before ED's seemed to have their unique roles; LD was the tanky dps focused on action boosts, prr; Fury was the burst dps; Fatesinger was the party buff dps; Shadowdancer was the sneak attack/instakill dps.

Now it seems like all the ED's are becoming rather similar in a lot of ways... Prr is no longer LD's stick, now everyone gets it. Damage to helpless... everyone. Critical multipliers? Everyone gets +1 on 19-20; no more; no less. Melee power? Same for everyone; don't need to worry about keeping a max blitz for LD; don't need to worry about THF for fury; just same for everyone. HP? Pretty much everyone. Doublestrike? Everyone gets 6% or so.

It doesn't seem much like "I want to make a slightly lower damage melee that can survive" (LD) vs "big boss damage" (Fury) vs "Good add clearing" (SD) vs "Party buffs and attack speed" (Fatesinger). Now it's... "Which destiny makes me the best at doing everything?"

3) You're really dumping on wisdom melees again; they were already somewhat struggling because they had very poor loot and filigree support. Seems to me that the number of builds using falconry would sharply decline if this update goes live like this.