U51 Early Preview: Main Thread

[arminius]

I hope this is my last general post on the matter, but I am finding it really difficult to look away from this train wreck.

I can only surmise that the new owners are really pushing for a raise in the level cap and have been told to get 'er dun at all costs. And this was the best the devs could come up with to make the game still fit in 40 levels or whatever without blowing out lag, managing difficulties, managing rewards, etc. I wish they could come clean on why they are pushing so hard and so fast on what has become nothing more or less than a massive unforced error/self-own. But if it is the suits that are paying them demanding it, then I guess that is that.

The bottom line is, I came back to the game as a distraction from Covid, and you provided that distraction from Covid, and I thank you for that.

If I became re-addicted to the game, that's on me. Covid is over, and it appears that unless the game runners come back with a big fat "Ooops, Never Mind" to this radical and unnecessary major surgery on the game, the game is over too. Time for me to piece back my life in any way I can and leave this exploding Hindenburg in my past.

[carsonfball]

Please do let us know what you think!

I like most of the changes:

1. Feats felt like I have to level for a long time before I got any after the first one. The changes would remove that issue.
2. I mainly play arcane casters and either had to choose between DCs (Magister), damage (Draconic), or effects (Shiradi). This has become more balanced and doesn't penalize arcane casters for being in an off-destiny.
3. If I was playing a cold-specced caster, I either had to choose between cold spell power or critical damage. Now all of the legendary feats have become mostly standardized.
4. The ability to put points more deeply into three trees will be more useful, I think, than being able to twist in from up to 5 destinies.

I do see a few problems though:

1. There is now a lack of critical chance/critical damage available in epics especially before level 30.
2. Scion of Earth seems to be slightly OP compared to the other arcane destinies as it gets +4 to two schools and a bonus to two spell powers and spell critical damage.
3. This Space Reserved until I can look at Draconic, Fatesinger, and the replacement for Magister

[Cashiry]

Are all these new changes that require calculations going to add to lag or has that been thought about while making these changes?

After the last update that changed how dps calculations were made to reduce lag.

How are stacks of charges (primal, divine, marshal and arcane) going to keep lag from reproducing what we had prior to the dps calculation update. I see that this could be a lag magnet for the server if every character is calculating these stacks.

[Alizure]

Scrap all of these changes. They are terrible.

I absolutely HATE the charge system they are trying to implement. I hope they don't do this. Because if they do.. I'll be finding another game. And as Cashiry said this charge system will probably add to the lag. I don't understand why in the world they would do this instead of fixing all the broken things in the game.

[axel15810]

Please open Lamannia again next week, even if it's the same build. There's just so much to preview and absorb here that I wasn't able to get to trying it all in the 2 days provided.

[rabidfox]

Please open Lamannia again next week, even if it's the same build. There's just so much to preview and absorb here that I wasn't able to get to trying it all in the 2 days provided.

Next week (if they do it, could be another week still), they'll be testing u50 stuff (Saltmarsh, Horizon Walker, etc.). And they said it'll be a fair bit of time until the next u51 test goes up again since they'll be spending a ton of time/resources getting u50 ready to go live.

[Stravix]

Next week (if they do it, could be another week still), they'll be testing u50 stuff (Saltmarsh, Horizon Walker, etc.). And they said it'll be a fair bit of time until the next u51 test goes up again since they'll be spending a ton of time/resources getting u50 ready to go live.

Honestly wish lama was open for multiweek sessions in times like these...

[Lence]

I absolutely HATE the charge system they are trying to implement.

I'm waiting patiently for someone to throw up one of those derpy "vote" posts in general on the incoming charge system to see some actual numbers from players on the mechanic, who knows, maybes there is more people who like that thing than indicated. Although, sounds like its a done deal regardless of player feed back, sounds like they "went all in on 2/7 off suit, pre flop" with the mechanic soooo kinda no point really i guess.

[gringofoot]

U51 will be released with this same ED revision. It will be the same thing we just saw.

• We will be told
  
  • "We showed it to you 5 months ago, if you did not like it - you should have said something then"
  • "Most players wanted this"
  • "This is the way the game is supposed to be played"
  • "This makes the game better"
  
  
• It will not bring new players.
• It will create more lag.
• People trying new games will be spending all day on D4 or some other shiny hi-res game instead of trying DDO.

After decades working in corporations where high level decision makers pretend to solicit feedback but do whatever they were going to do in the first place - I know this pattern.

SSG and EG7 - you are betting that a small inner circle of yourselves know more and know better than thousands of end users / customers. Let's hope that you are correct. On record - I do not believe that to be the case.

May we be proven wrong.

[Stravix]

U51 will be released with this same ED revision. It will be the same thing we just saw.

• We will be told
  
  • "We showed it to you 5 months ago, if you did not like it - you should have said something then"
  • "Most players wanted this"
  • "This is the way the game is supposed to be played"
  • "This makes the game better"
  
  
• It will not bring new players.
• It will create more lag.
• People trying new games will be spending all day on D4 or some other shiny hi-res game instead of trying DDO.

After decades working in corporations where high level decision makers pretend to solicit feedback but do whatever they were going to do in the first place - I know this pattern.

SSG and EG7 - you are betting that a small inner circle of yourselves know more and know better than thousands of end users / customers. Let's hope that you are correct. On record - I do not believe that to be the case.

May we be proven wrong.

Well, considering things have already changed from the feedback, so, if you are in a betting mood, betting against you sounds like a fairly good bet

[songswrath]

nobody and i repeat nobody wants this builder system. drop it, there to many clicky stuff as it sits update 51 now it will be the death of ddo..
is there a huge power creep over last few updates yes. do things need some balance/nerf yes. this whole project just seams like wasted time to me. i would have done the ed's just like reaper trees are where you can only spend so many points per lvl. also cores and tiers should unlock as you lvl like heroic. toss this whole thing out it is trash. adding more complexity is not going to keep new players. keep things simple and more will enjoy it

[difasja]

Well, considering things have already changed from the feedback, so, if you are in a betting mood, betting against you sounds like a fairly good bet

What changed?

[Stravix]

What changed?

Lynn posted some pretty sweeping changes for shadow dancer and divine crusader. Quoting it would be too long of a post, but check out his latest in those threads via the dev tracker

[Baahb3]

I hope this is my last general post on the matter, but I am finding it really difficult to look away from this train wreck.

I can only surmise that the new owners are really pushing for a raise in the level cap and have been told to get 'er dun at all costs. And this was the best the devs could come up with to make the game still fit in 40 levels or whatever without blowing out lag, managing difficulties, managing rewards, etc. I wish they could come clean on why they are pushing so hard and so fast on what has become nothing more or less than a massive unforced error/self-own. But if it is the suits that are paying them demanding it, then I guess that is that.

There are some good ideas here, no karma for one. But I have to agree.

Builder/Spender management.
Mantle Management.
Loss of epic moments.
Level gating iconic abilities.
Making each epic life feel like your first.

They are gutting a system that few wanted gutted, just updated, for a level increase that nearly no one wants. May be too much doom but at this point this feels like the Star Wars Galaxies NGE moment for DDO.

[Shadospawn]

nobody and i repeat nobody wants this builder system. drop it, there to many clicky stuff as it sits update 51 now it will be the death of ddo..
is there a huge power creep over last few updates yes. do things need some balance/nerf yes. this whole project just seams like wasted time to me. i would have done the ed's just like reaper trees are where you can only spend so many points per lvl. also cores and tiers should unlock as you lvl like heroic. toss this whole thing out it is trash. adding more complexity is not going to keep new players. keep things simple and more will enjoy it

Agreed. There are only one of two ways it can go:

1) Builders/spenders are so useless or marginal that it won’t be worth bothering with.
2) They are so strong that we are all going to be spending the rest of our ddo lives building/spending these charges through every flipping dungeon.

Either way, it’s a lose for the game. Please reconsider this.

[merlinfire1]

This is mostly correct, I started in 2007, mostly the whole time, I left for a while a couple of times due to my annoyance with the Devs who I don't often see eye to eye with on what D&D is all about. This is the end for me, I've decided to end my VIP today (note I did not realize they don't refund VIPs, at least the way I bought it, so I'll be a forced VIP till Feb 2022), and the about $1000 I spend per year on points ends as well, I may play heroics occasionally for free, but probably not (not sure there will be DDO in 12 months if this happens = very few big spenders will be left in the game as they will almost all leave). This is so bad and so off track it tells me the Devs have completly lost their way. I will check in maybe in Dec and Jan to see if they implemented this mess. If it was abandoned I may come back as a free to play member, we shall see. Good luck to you all. One last thing this entire build up charges and then use them to do stuff is not a D&D thing and it has no place in D&D; it is a **** video game thing. Devs - get a brain, take all that stuff and throw it in the trash can.

Let me get this straight.

You're leaving DDO over a super early preview that is so early in development that most of the icons are still placeholders, and probably won't release for months yet?

It seems like people are overreacting here. Make your points, but all this "give me what I want or I'm walking" garbage is so tiresome and childish.

[merlinfire1]

Yeah the more I think about it, the less I like the idea of the builders/spenders thing. It clashes strangely with the rest of the system. Honestly, it's the only thing I don't like from a game design perspective. Everything else is just people getting upset about a shuffling meta.

[difasja]

Let me get this straight.

You're leaving DDO over a super early preview that is so early in development that most of the icons are still placeholders, and probably won't release for months yet?

It seems like people are overreacting here. Make your points, but all this "give me what I want or I'm walking" garbage is so tiresome and childish.

Not tiresome or childish, I now know this is coiming, I know what it is going to look like, they are not going to change it, I don't want to invest six months more in this game just to leave when it comes out. I said good luck to all and I meant it, you can stay, and I do wish you the best, but for me this is too much.

[merlinfire1]

Not tiresome or childish, I now know this is coiming, I know what it is going to look like, they are not going to change it, I don't want to invest six months more in this game just to leave when it comes out. I said good luck to all and I meant it, you can stay, and I do wish you the best, but for me this is too much.

I want to be fair here. But I have to ask. How do you know? Don't you think the point of early previews is to get player feedback?

I watched the Strimtom video with them the other day talking about this. Strim was pointing out how overpowered some of the abilities were, and the devs seemed pretty receptive to that feedback. Admitted they still had a lot of balancing to do, talked about how some stuff is still getting moved around, etc. It's not a done deal.

[Baahb3]

I want to be fair here. But I have to ask. How do you know? Don't you think the point of early previews is to get player feedback? Or are you thinking they do this just to taunt us?

I think what he is saying is that there is a history here. Yes they take feedback, yes they will change some abilities, order and what not. But when DDO Devs settle on a new system, they stick with it despite any feedback. Their investment before we get a preview I think limits their options.

The Builder/Spender system is going to happen no matter what feedback they get.