U51 Early Preview: Main Thread

[Cocomajobo]

Disclaimer

Everything seen on the preview server, Lamannia, is not final and is subject to change or removal before live release.

Hello, all! A special early preview of Update 51 is open! It is expected to remain open until sometime in the late afternoon (Eastern) of Thursday June 17th.

There will be a dev event on Wednesday June 16th from 8-10 PM Eastern where members of the DDO team will be available to collect feedback and answer questions in real time on Lamannia.

To be clear, you read that correctly, this is an early preview of Update 51. This is happening before we've even hosted a preview for Update 50 because of how large the Epic Destiny system is and how important it is that we take the time needed to iterate on it to get it right. We are months away from the Epic Destiny revamp being ready to go to the live servers (keep that in mind and especially make sure to take a look at the known issues list in the basic framework thread). For clarity, this is very likely to be the only Epic Destiny revamp preview until after the release of Update 50 (which we will begin previewing in the coming few weeks).

We would like to use this preview to gather impressions from the community at large and go through them before we are encroaching on the deadline for U51. We expect to be referring back to these threads over the next month plus while the U50 development cycle finishes up. Due to the nature of the U50 schedule, after this preview concludes we are likely to go a bit quiet on the Epic Destiny revamp for a while as we focus on finishing up U50. Once U50 is live, however, we will be holding atleast a couple more previews for the Epic Destiny revamp that will both showcase the Destinies that did not make it into this early preview and provide insight into how the system is shaping up after the first preview.

This preview contains one real feature: An early look at parts of the Epic Destiny Revamp.

The list of official feedback threads, in the order that I HIGHLY recommend reading them in is as follows:

1. Epic Destiny Revamp Core Framework
2. Epic Destiny Revamp Design Paradigm
3. Epic Feats, Destiny Feats, and Legendary Feats Changes
4. Individual Epic Destiny Tree threads (NOTE: Only 7 of the 12 Destinies are available in this early preview)
   
   • Fury of the Wild
   • Primal Avatar
   • Shiradi Champion
   • Legendary Dreadnought
   • Shadowdancer
   • Grandmaster of Flowers
   • Divine Crusader
5. And finally: U50 Changes Present in this Preview
6. In Progress Half Elf Cosmetic Revamp

Again, those posts are ordered in the recommended reading order to best understand what's planned to change and why. Please do let us know what you think!

[Cocomajobo]

Reserved Post

[Zezahk]

So... lots to unpack with the changes. Lots of good changes, lots of ehh changes. Speaking as a primary pew-pew and warlock player - Shadowdancer has had a lot of it's more interesting tools pruned away, with nothing particularly substantial to replace it. Also there is the illusion infinity-1, and the peculiarity of it being at the top of a vary vary martial tree. And trapfinding. Shiradi has lost a substantial amount of passive damage, and is quirkier than usual in general, alongside having a brain-damage tier primal spender SLA. Also none of the trees have any interaction with eldritch blast whatsoever.

[QuantumFX]

Now that Epic Destiny abilities are level gated, does that mean you guys will stop being ridiculous about gating level 18-20 quests on Reaper difficulty?

[cmecu]

Cmecu checking in. Cant wait to check this stuff out. Its ok to stream this stuff on Tiwtch?

[Cocomajobo]

Cmecu checking in. Cant wait to check this stuff out. Its ok to stream this stuff on Tiwtch?

Yup! Absolutely fine! This is public preview. For the most due diligence please do mention that this is the preview server and not live but you're free to show off what you find on lamannia!

[Chacka_DDO]

I don't want to fail to mention that you should consider that EDs are epic character progression and for this reason, you should get access to them at level 21 which is also in DDO the first epic character level (in level 21 you have your first epic level).
Much like you get your first epic feat and EDF (epic defensive fighting) at level 21.

I know many players will cry nerf or even refuse to comprehend that level 21 is the first epic character level...
But I think everyone who has some sense of logic knows we have an inconsistency here that should be corrected.

To mitigate the effects of such a change you could e.g. lower the experience requirement for level 21 and/or let characters start at level 21 after an ER (epic reincarnation).
In addition maybe more quests with level 18-20.
Another idea would be to give everyone a free Stone of Experience after any ER that gives you enough exp for level 21.

[Valerianus]

oh yeah, EDF, it seems like the perfect chance to scrap it and forget about it, and slip those hp back into the new EDs or weapon styles feats.

[Chacka_DDO]

oh yeah, EDF, it seems like the perfect chance to scrap it and forget about it, and slip those hp back into the new EDs or weapon styles feats.

EDF has nothing to do with EDs
I just say EDs are epic and like EDF you should get access to them when your character gets epic and that's at level 21.
The intention behind EDF (as far as I know) was to help ALL melee builds but the implementation especially with the touch range for spells was not ideal...
But anyhow to help all melee builds it would not really work if it is in an ED and all melees would have to use this ED.

[blarhblarhblarh]

I really hope that DDO will have some players left after they change it all and fix all the new bugs that will come with it. Once more DDO is using it´s manpower to change something that works instead of using it to fix the broken parts of the game.

All the ED specific changes could be achieved changing each ED without the need to change all the core rules of the system or twists of fate. I enjoy leveling in epics because the higher playerbase and less burocracy. Spending more time outside of quest makes no sense to me even if some of the changes seens fine. Once more the change will make the game harder to play and low epics and the same at endgame so why invest so much time in something that is working fine for 9 years? makes no sense to me. Just like destroying items like the silver longbow or the Burnscar Sash: effective but could be done with other solutions without picking up a fight with DDO´s supporters.

I bet the playerbase would prefer mounts, more/better bank space, bug fixing, another expansion or even a second feywild raid. Even the vip revamp could be preponed or more staff in the support.


By a player that just lost one month and a half of vip, xp pots, slayer pots to relevel EDs while waiting for four tickets to be answered and fix my bug I may be more tired of DDO than most. I only can hope that it doesn´t happens with other players and that the staff will reinburce the other players when there is a bug from their part. So I may be a bit more unsatisfied than the average player and not willing to pay to be a beta tester.

[TFerguson]

Scrap all of these changes. They are terrible.

[Valerianus]

it will be boring as hell to do etr with less skills and charger\builder\finisher repeat and repeat, also some changes are trinity-oriented, ddo can only be damaged by trinity gameplay imho.

[cmecu]

I spent a while looking over the new ED trees. Here is something to consider. Is it too complex for new players? I think of other MMO's I have played over the years and those games are very linear on leveling up. Same skills at the same level nothing changes.
This game is full of customization with multi classing, different feats, enhancements etc.. DDO has a huge learning curve already. Now it is even more complex because you have to think about what 3 trees to pick in ED, which skills to take in them. Which mantle to wear, what to use for builders, spenders, enhancers.. Which mantle do i keep on, when to swap it, what ability to use to build up charges.. It seems pretty complex now like this to relearn everything. I cant imagine a new player trying to figure all of this stuff out. The idea and concepts are nice, but part of me feels it just adds more complexity to a game that already has a huge learning curve compared to other games. Im fine with it, i can learn it, but I just think of keeping the player base fresh and getting more people to play.

[Caarb]

Urgh too much fail in one pass. I cant even bring myself to give feedback - you do what you want. I likely wont be around to see it go live.

Every post I read is:
No wait what?
They didnt?
Huh?
***?
Now they are just trolling

[Alizure]

Scrap all of these changes. They are terrible.

I absolutely HATE the charge system they are trying to implement. I hope they don't do this. Because if they do.. I'll be finding another game. And as Cashiry said this charge system will probably add to the lag. I don't understand why in the world they would do this instead of fixing all the broken things in the game.

[Lence]

I absolutely HATE the charge system they are trying to implement.

I'm waiting patiently for someone to throw up one of those derpy "vote" posts in general on the incoming charge system to see some actual numbers from players on the mechanic, who knows, maybes there is more people who like that thing than indicated. Although, sounds like its a done deal regardless of player feed back, sounds like they "went all in on 2/7 off suit, pre flop" with the mechanic soooo kinda no point really i guess.

[Cellestte-Sarlona]

We would like to use this preview to gather impressions from the community at large and go through them before we are encroaching on the deadline for U51.

This might not exactly fall under the feedback you are looking for this release, but I was trying to pretend like a new player to DDO learning about what to do when I hit level 20. I read everything the Fatespinner had to say and I didn't see anywhere what a "Destiny Mantle" is. I can see it as one of my first choices in my tree, but nowhere can I learn what it does. Maybe a little blip about it under the heading "Tell me about Epic Destinies" would be appropriate.

[droid327]

ED reset costs seem...very excessive...

Its 5000 per point spent, per number of resets. That seems like a lot, compared to right now where it only costs a trip to the Fatespinner. Resetting 50 points spent would be a quarter million. Resetting them again the same day would spend a half million.

I get there needs to be more plat sinks, and plat is generally cheap, but this seems like a pure tax.

[Soulfurnace]

The passives across the trees are wildly unbalanced. Specifically referring to the "per charge" things.

Fury: plus 1 hit/damage per charge.
Avatar: 2% cost reduction per charge.
Shadowdancer: 1 SA dice per martial charge. (WOW)
Flower: 1 to all saves per charge.
Crusader: 3 to AC per charge.
Shiradi: 1 stacking incorp per charge.
Dreadnought: 1 DC per charge.

LD is thematic tho only so-so, Fury is merely "okay", Shadowdancer is insane - honestly, any melee will have that much SD for the SA dice.
GMOF, DC, both utterly useless. I wouldn't take those even if I t5'd those trees.
Shiradi is okay, I guess, but overall kinda lame with other options.

[rabidfox]

ED reset costs seem...very excessive...

Its 5000 per point spent, per number of resets. That seems like a lot, compared to right now where it only costs a trip to the Fatespinner. Resetting 50 points spent would be a quarter million. Resetting them again the same day would spend a half million.

I get there needs to be more plat sinks, and plat is generally cheap, but this seems like a pure tax.

I hope they do something like either make it free respecs for VIP or at least make it cost zero plat for a few months. It's gonna be a sharp learning curve figuring out all new builds across this many trees combos and it's gonna get silly expensive to experiment on how to just back to normal.