U51 Early Preview: Main Thread

[Certon]

Where to start?

I recently came back to DDO again, it is my regular game I always get back to when the mood strikes me. Spent a few hundred Euros on expansions, points but usually not dedicated enough to get VIP.

This time was different though, because this time my kids joined in - both were not born when I started to play DDO back in idk actually - 2013? My older one already got a few expansions, while the younger just started. One friend just came back when I told him about it, two others are waiting for us to catch up to continue. Things looked good until yesterday, when I found this thread.

The great many options of DDO being one of the selling points, you can play simple characters, complex characters, nearly anything you can imagine you can play - but it looks like this is about to change.

The new Epic Destinies are a nightmare. It is lacking in 3 major ways, while slightly improving two things.

First the good things (or at least the not so bad things):

• you no longer have to level epic destinies you have zero interest just to play with the one you want to. I didn't particularily enjoy the Fatesinger on my main, and my older is aiming for undying sentinel, but is a Fighter - so some grandmaster leveling required first. Just opening ALL EDs from the start would have solved that.
• not as frontloaded when you reincarnated. Now it is levelgated though.

And the worse things:

• Instead of the old system where you could mix and match and swap destinies according to your needs you are now shoehorned in one (with some points in one other and minimal in a third). Old system allowed me to use support others with the proper epic destiny, adjust to quests, especially with the great twist system). Now it is fire and forget, if the solo build does not have the tools to help others, tough luck. My older is close to epic levels, I was planning to use a support build ED to help his fighter, with some healing ... well I guess we won't be playing something else together instead.
• The new trees are very simplistic - the old trees always had a few abilities that were useful for any type of build, so you could mix and match something that is playable (again, maybe not for Reaper 10, but we are happy playing Normal + Hard, while I like to do Elite, but mostly solo - less fun for the kids). My main Epic Destinies were the shadowdancer and the primal avatar, the new versions are really bad (mind you, probably ok for casters). But ironically all the others are not much better for my playstyle, so if you want to play a melee character, you have to play the brute. Hulk Adrenaline Smash! Embrace the pain! The whole seeking balance line of Primal Avatar made for a character with less clickies and enjoyable to play, or the executioners strike / consume abilities gave my shadowdancer some alpha striking ability - what good is assassination DC now? unless you are built for one single enhancement from a single class?. <sarcasm>No problem giving every caster multiple instant death abilities, but a mere martial character - ridiculous </sarcasm>
• no more simple options, all things are short cooldowns (but to long to use regularily), with short durations, requiring keyboard-piano from the players. Especially a pain for less experienced players like my kids, they are not interested in Reaper 10, they are happy with normal and maybe hard, useless micromanaging with the charges will scare away the casuals.

I have played a lot of DDO, and I do plan to enjoy it for now, until this disaster strikes. Money spending is on hold, no sense in investing in a game that goes in the wrong direction for me. Won't buy the new (and old for my kids) expansions, we will utilize what we have for now, until we see a future again for this game.

The current suggestion is salvageable, but keeping the current unique design while opening all trees allows the addition of new EDs (for money, of course), removes the need to level unwanted EDs, and if you could passively level an inactive epic destiny you could enjoy the game the way you want.

Sunken Cost Fallacy means that this mess will go through (with some cosmetic changes to claim they listened to feedback). Goodbye DDO, game with the most flexible character options, hello bland cookie cutter MMO mechanics

(Yes, I am quite frustrated, frustrated enough to log into the forums and post for the first time. Update 51 kills the game for me, one of my favorite games of all times, that I finally get to share with my kids.)

Sunken cost fallacy indeed. They will of course not value the time as a learning experience as they should and instead force the square peg into the round hole, completing the ruination of the game and the perfect execution of said fallacy.

I'm in a similar boat to you. No kids, but watching the game I love mutate into something that isn't the game I love anymore. I'm VIP for now, but when the changes drop, if I can't make my main CLOSE to the crippled version of what she is post U50, I'm done too. The game I have loved since its release will finally be dead, and the ne'er do wells who complain about my complaining will finally get the relief from me that they have always wanted.

[Maldorin]

Sunken cost fallacy indeed. They will of course not value the time as a learning experience as they should and instead force the square peg into the round hole, completing the ruination of the game and the perfect execution of said fallacy.

I'm in a similar boat to you. No kids, but watching the game I love mutate into something that isn't the game I love anymore. I'm VIP for now, but when the changes drop, if I can't make my main CLOSE to the crippled version of what she is post U50, I'm done too. The game I have loved since its release will finally be dead, and the ne'er do wells who complain about my complaining will finally get the relief from me that they have always wanted.

I just returned from a 2 year hiatus been playing off and on since 2010. When I'm playing I don't mind spending money on the game .These changes and more importantly what they reveal about the current developers game development philosophy make me want to run away from the game at a high rate of speed. I'm already separated from my friends who didn't take a break who are doing high skulls now with tons of reaper points and past lives. I have a job and a family. I'll never catch up. What's the point?

[Pandjed]

I'm already separated from my friends who didn't take a break who are doing high skulls now with tons of reaper points and past lives. I have a job and a family. I'll never catch up. What's the point?

Having fun while playing a game? I mean, there is no need for a catch-up, as this is not a race.

I'm sure that ppl you call friends can show you the ropes when you want to play with them, as high reaper isn't inaccessible at all, it just needs some time and will to re-learn the quests and get your build and gear together so that it functions there. If you know how to do it, you can join high reaper as a first lifer, I do it occasionally.
There are tons of experienced and helpful players, that has spent the time, effort, and nerves to work towards high reapers the hard way (by doing it themselves and exchanging their experiences and ideas with each other), that are now helping other players to get to this point themselves.

If you don't want to mingle there, also great, play at your leisure and reap the reward you can get with your time. Or use money to buy a lot of Otto's boxes and get better stats without necessarily getting a better player. All valid options. It's a game. Have fun your way. If you don't have fun, don't play.
If you like to play a certain part of the game, get yourself to that level or accept your boundaries and settle for something that befits you more, and be it another game. It's not like there is some kind of hypnotism or compulsion to force you to play DDO.

[Axeyu]

Having fun while playing a game? I mean, there is no need for a catch-up, as this is not a race.

I'm sure that ppl you call friends can show you the ropes when you want to play with them, as high reaper isn't inaccessible at all, it just needs some time and will to re-learn the quests and get your build and gear together so that it functions there. If you know how to do it, you can join high reaper as a first lifer, I do it occasionally.
There are tons of experienced and helpful players, that has spent the time, effort, and nerves to work towards high reapers the hard way (by doing it themselves and exchanging their experiences and ideas with each other), that are now helping other players to get to this point themselves.

If you don't want to mingle there, also great, play at your leisure and reap the reward you can get with your time. Or use money to buy a lot of Otto's boxes and get better stats without necessarily getting a better player. All valid options. It's a game. Have fun your way. If you don't have fun, don't play.
If you like to play a certain part of the game, get yourself to that level or accept your boundaries and settle for something that befits you more, and be it another game. It's not like there is some kind of hypnotism or compulsion to force you to play DDO.

How exactly does a catch-up mechanic get in the way of anyones "fun"?

[Pandjed]

How exactly does a catch-up mechanic get in the way of anyones "fun"?

Does anything I posted somehow gave the impression that I stated that catch-up mechanics do that? If yes, please quote the line and how it did, as this may be a mistake from my part.

If you ask me in general and has nothing to do with my statement, quoting my whole post gave me a wrong impression, and a @Pandjed would have been more helpful for me to understand. EDIT: Though a PM might have been a better place for that than a post here.

[Axeyu]

Does anything I posted somehow gave the impression that I stated that catch-up mechanics do that? If yes, please quote the line and how it did, as this may be a mistake from my part.

If you ask me in general and has nothing to do with my statement, quoting my whole post gave me a wrong impression, and a @Pandjed would have been more helpful for me to understand. EDIT: Though a PM might have been a better place for that than a post here.

Yes. "Having fun while playing a game? I mean, there is no need for a catch-up".

[Pandjed]

Yes. "Having fun while playing a game? I mean, there is no need for a catch-up".

This is the direct answer of the question "What is the point?" from Maldorin (that's why I quoted that particular sentence), so yes: I see that just having fun playing a game as a good point to continue doing so, and that you don't need to "catch-up" to have it (as this may be also be a rather vague term, as this would need a goal. Only thing I can see from Maldorin was about his high reaper playing friends, where I already said that with the right build and gear, you can do it as a first lifer. Not solo, but to rejoin those friends, it should be enough imo.

So the real "catch-up" would be to learn the game mechanics, quests, builds, and get the skills necessary to pull them off.

Other than that, the fun of playing a game is a genuine good argument to continue to play it and like I said, if that's not given anymore or seems too demanding, rethink whether it's worth it or not.



Do I believe that a catch-up mechanic from sides of the devs would be good without reducing the fun of one of the playewr basises I can think of? Only if implemented right. The idea the devs stated in a stream of a leader-mechanic in groups seems promising there (short form: Having a character with lots of PLs and RXP grants bonuses to less built up characters while questing). Would allow people to quest at higher difficulties with well-versed guildies and friends without diminishing their investment, while the lower stacked characters get more RXP by running higher difficulties (making the progression faster) and without dying as much as long as they don't make one of the many things that gets you killed at high reaper (like, when party has a tank, don't shoot before tank gets aggro).