U51 Early Preview: Main Thread

[Cocomajobo]

Disclaimer

Everything seen on the preview server, Lamannia, is not final and is subject to change or removal before live release.

Hello, all! A special early preview of Update 51 is open! It is expected to remain open until sometime in the late afternoon (Eastern) of Thursday June 17th.

There will be a dev event on Wednesday June 16th from 8-10 PM Eastern where members of the DDO team will be available to collect feedback and answer questions in real time on Lamannia.

To be clear, you read that correctly, this is an early preview of Update 51. This is happening before we've even hosted a preview for Update 50 because of how large the Epic Destiny system is and how important it is that we take the time needed to iterate on it to get it right. We are months away from the Epic Destiny revamp being ready to go to the live servers (keep that in mind and especially make sure to take a look at the known issues list in the basic framework thread). For clarity, this is very likely to be the only Epic Destiny revamp preview until after the release of Update 50 (which we will begin previewing in the coming few weeks).

We would like to use this preview to gather impressions from the community at large and go through them before we are encroaching on the deadline for U51. We expect to be referring back to these threads over the next month plus while the U50 development cycle finishes up. Due to the nature of the U50 schedule, after this preview concludes we are likely to go a bit quiet on the Epic Destiny revamp for a while as we focus on finishing up U50. Once U50 is live, however, we will be holding atleast a couple more previews for the Epic Destiny revamp that will both showcase the Destinies that did not make it into this early preview and provide insight into how the system is shaping up after the first preview.

This preview contains one real feature: An early look at parts of the Epic Destiny Revamp.

The list of official feedback threads, in the order that I HIGHLY recommend reading them in is as follows:

1. Epic Destiny Revamp Core Framework
2. Epic Destiny Revamp Design Paradigm
3. Epic Feats, Destiny Feats, and Legendary Feats Changes
4. Individual Epic Destiny Tree threads (NOTE: Only 7 of the 12 Destinies are available in this early preview)
   
   • Fury of the Wild
   • Primal Avatar
   • Shiradi Champion
   • Legendary Dreadnought
   • Shadowdancer
   • Grandmaster of Flowers
   • Divine Crusader
5. And finally: U50 Changes Present in this Preview
6. In Progress Half Elf Cosmetic Revamp

Again, those posts are ordered in the recommended reading order to best understand what's planned to change and why. Please do let us know what you think!

[Cocomajobo]

Reserved Post

[Zezahk]

So... lots to unpack with the changes. Lots of good changes, lots of ehh changes. Speaking as a primary pew-pew and warlock player - Shadowdancer has had a lot of it's more interesting tools pruned away, with nothing particularly substantial to replace it. Also there is the illusion infinity-1, and the peculiarity of it being at the top of a vary vary martial tree. And trapfinding. Shiradi has lost a substantial amount of passive damage, and is quirkier than usual in general, alongside having a brain-damage tier primal spender SLA. Also none of the trees have any interaction with eldritch blast whatsoever.

[QuantumFX]

Now that Epic Destiny abilities are level gated, does that mean you guys will stop being ridiculous about gating level 18-20 quests on Reaper difficulty?

[cmecu]

Cmecu checking in. Cant wait to check this stuff out. Its ok to stream this stuff on Tiwtch?

[Cocomajobo]

Cmecu checking in. Cant wait to check this stuff out. Its ok to stream this stuff on Tiwtch?

Yup! Absolutely fine! This is public preview. For the most due diligence please do mention that this is the preview server and not live but you're free to show off what you find on lamannia!

[Seph1roth5]

I like the vast majority of stuff in the preview, my only big nitpick is with some of the really low numbers. Adding +1/2/3 damage or 5 universal spellpower is such an insignificant boost at lv 20, much less for some of the high tier stuff.

I don't play normal dps that often, but I'm pretty sure you're easily hitting for over 100 by level....10? With very little effort. Maybe even much lower, like I said, I haven't played a 2hf in a while heh.

They really need to be bumped up or scale with cores or something. Or with destiny charges?

[mikarddo]

That is a lot of new stuff to figure out for sure.

The initial impression is - you are removing or gating the good stuff I am currently using - so getting to pick more stuff from 3 trees will be much less fun or powerful than having 4 or 5 twists.

Basically, getting more mediocre abilities does not make up for losing a few strong ones.

Examples:
- Meld is nerfed very badly.
- Dire Charge is now a Tier 5 in LD making it somewhat exclusive and level 30 only (so no enjoying it from 29 to 30)
- Mass Frog is now a Tier 5 in PA, and is now level 30 only.
- Consume is gone (unsure if it is in a tree we cannot see yet)
- EiA is moved somewhere else that we cannot currently see
- Hunts End + Nerve Venom is now T5 making it level 30 only! (ranged builds will be very weak leveling)
- Adrenaline is no longer useable by ranged.

Also, leveling up in low epics will be much less fun than currently as so much power is lost. The Mantles look very weak in comparison.

Additionally, the whole "builder-spender" system with charges just look - annoying. I really suggest you drop that idea entirely as it just looks complex for no reason or gain and overall unfun.

Basically, all the fun/strong stuff in the trees we can see now is nerfed in some way or another. Will other fun and strong options be figured out? Maybe, time will tell.

[blarhblarhblarh]

I really hope that DDO will have some players left after they change it all and fix all the new bugs that will come with it. Once more DDO is using it´s manpower to change something that works instead of using it to fix the broken parts of the game.

All the ED specific changes could be achieved changing each ED without the need to change all the core rules of the system or twists of fate. I enjoy leveling in epics because the higher playerbase and less burocracy. Spending more time outside of quest makes no sense to me even if some of the changes seens fine. Once more the change will make the game harder to play and low epics and the same at endgame so why invest so much time in something that is working fine for 9 years? makes no sense to me. Just like destroying items like the silver longbow or the Burnscar Sash: effective but could be done with other solutions without picking up a fight with DDO´s supporters.

I bet the playerbase would prefer mounts, more/better bank space, bug fixing, another expansion or even a second feywild raid. Even the vip revamp could be preponed or more staff in the support.


By a player that just lost one month and a half of vip, xp pots, slayer pots to relevel EDs while waiting for four tickets to be answered and fix my bug I may be more tired of DDO than most. I only can hope that it doesn´t happens with other players and that the staff will reinburce the other players when there is a bug from their part. So I may be a bit more unsatisfied than the average player and not willing to pay to be a beta tester.

[TFerguson]

Scrap all of these changes. They are terrible.

[Valerianus]

it will be boring as hell to do etr with less skills and charger\builder\finisher repeat and repeat, also some changes are trinity-oriented, ddo can only be damaged by trinity gameplay imho.

[cmecu]

I spent a while looking over the new ED trees. Here is something to consider. Is it too complex for new players? I think of other MMO's I have played over the years and those games are very linear on leveling up. Same skills at the same level nothing changes.
This game is full of customization with multi classing, different feats, enhancements etc.. DDO has a huge learning curve already. Now it is even more complex because you have to think about what 3 trees to pick in ED, which skills to take in them. Which mantle to wear, what to use for builders, spenders, enhancers.. Which mantle do i keep on, when to swap it, what ability to use to build up charges.. It seems pretty complex now like this to relearn everything. I cant imagine a new player trying to figure all of this stuff out. The idea and concepts are nice, but part of me feels it just adds more complexity to a game that already has a huge learning curve compared to other games. Im fine with it, i can learn it, but I just think of keeping the player base fresh and getting more people to play.

[Caarb]

Urgh too much fail in one pass. I cant even bring myself to give feedback - you do what you want. I likely wont be around to see it go live.

Every post I read is:
No wait what?
They didnt?
Huh?
***?
Now they are just trolling

[NeMMaNjaO]

Just rework all trees you find OP and let us have old system which was working fine. I agree you shouldnt get exp from sphere to take EPL but this is just crazy if power of monsters and hp remain same and we lose alot of power. Or compensate with lower exp needed to get to 30. Lower it to 5 mil and im sold

[LavidDynch]

will there be a blanket nerf to casters, onsidering you are taking a huge poo poo on melee and ranged?

TLDR
Who on earth would level anything but spellcasters with this change?

[Lencrennis]

Welp, I already see what I'm going to do day 1 of U51. Good luck to the rest of you all. Remember, those +1s are actually very powerful.

[Cellestte-Sarlona]

We would like to use this preview to gather impressions from the community at large and go through them before we are encroaching on the deadline for U51.

This might not exactly fall under the feedback you are looking for this release, but I was trying to pretend like a new player to DDO learning about what to do when I hit level 20. I read everything the Fatespinner had to say and I didn't see anywhere what a "Destiny Mantle" is. I can see it as one of my first choices in my tree, but nowhere can I learn what it does. Maybe a little blip about it under the heading "Tell me about Epic Destinies" would be appropriate.

[droid327]

ED reset costs seem...very excessive...

Its 5000 per point spent, per number of resets. That seems like a lot, compared to right now where it only costs a trip to the Fatespinner. Resetting 50 points spent would be a quarter million. Resetting them again the same day would spend a half million.

I get there needs to be more plat sinks, and plat is generally cheap, but this seems like a pure tax.

[Soulfurnace]

The passives across the trees are wildly unbalanced. Specifically referring to the "per charge" things.

Fury: plus 1 hit/damage per charge.
Avatar: 2% cost reduction per charge.
Shadowdancer: 1 SA dice per martial charge. (WOW)
Flower: 1 to all saves per charge.
Crusader: 3 to AC per charge.
Shiradi: 1 stacking incorp per charge.
Dreadnought: 1 DC per charge.

LD is thematic tho only so-so, Fury is merely "okay", Shadowdancer is insane - honestly, any melee will have that much SD for the SA dice.
GMOF, DC, both utterly useless. I wouldn't take those even if I t5'd those trees.
Shiradi is okay, I guess, but overall kinda lame with other options.

[droid327]

I cant change my L29 feat at Fred...probably because L29 Destiny feats dont exist anymore?

I'm sure a LR would fix it, but its something to look about before going Live unless you're going to give everyone an LR0 with the update