First Look: Shadar-Kai Adjustments

[droid327]

The question of "Well, what race SHOULD Thief-Acrobats be" is a good one though; I don't have an obvious answer, but it's something to consider when we get around to making new Races.

Well, you're in luc-
*gets dragged away for nearlty giving out spoilers*

Well I think you might've answered it without realizing...if DEX is getting "a trance or something comparable" - and I'm hoping its "something comparable", because otherwise, every combat mainstat will become totally normalized - then DEX races are a lot more practical, and that opens up the door to Beasthide Shifter. The problem with Shifter when it released was that its rolespace wasnt one that was really served in-game. With an improvement to DEX builds, it would be, and TA is a natural alignment with it: bonus CON, PRR, HP are all useful to a squish class like Rogue, and Rage creates synergy with Barbarian as a splash option, which also yields benefits to THF staff fighting.

[HuneyMunster]

Would it be possible to change Improved Dodge to Nimble Reaction and move Nothing is Hidden to tier 3? Having 5 enhancements in tier 4 seems too much of an action point investment for racial tree. Elves get theirs at tier 2.

[LT218]

We talked about adding Quarterstaff to this internally, and landed on "No, because it would make for odd balance situations, and doesn't match with the theme of what this ability is now suggesting you do - whirl your mainhand weapon around on a chain."

You were saying?

[Chacka_DDO]

I think it would fit much better to Shadar-kai if they get some kind of incorporeality instead of a Displacement SLA.
I would suggest here 5% (or even 10%) stacking incorporeality and as a multi-selector, 25% non-stacking incorporeality like Monks get from Shadow Veil in the Ninja Spy tree.

[Artty]

You were saying?

This was actually the first thing I thought when I read it and assumed there's be an enhancement that added the ability to use it with staff. The idea of playing a Rogue/Monk with that sounds rad. Shame it doesn't seem to be in the cards.

[Nugaot]

This was actually the first thing I thought when I read it and assumed there's be an enhancement that added the ability to use it with staff. The idea of playing a Rogue/Monk with that sounds rad. Shame it doesn't seem to be in the cards.

This is a good suggestion, something a bit higher in the tree, maybe T3 or 4 that allows you to use a quarterstaff (and ONLY staff, not other 2h weapons) with the whirling chain attack would be a nice compromise.

[CaptainSpacePony]

I think it would fit much better to Shadar-kai if they get some kind of incorporeality instead of a Displacement SLA.
I would suggest here 5% (or even 10%) stacking incorporeality and as a multi-selector, 25% non-stacking incorporeality like Monks get from Shadow Veil in the Ninja Spy tree.

Agreed. (Like I kinda said before )

[LurkingVeteran]

Will the chain work with handwraps?

Pretty sure handwraps are "light weapons", so I hope so!

Whether it will be bugged or not remains to be seen, handwraps don't have the best history.

[Artos_Fabril]

Pretty sure handwraps are "light weapons", so I hope so!

Whether it will be bugged or not remains to be seen, handwraps don't have the best history.

Assuming they fixed all of the instances in which handwraps aren't a weapon at all...

[TitusOvid]

I didn't read all posts, my apologies. Is the chain affected by feats and other enhancements at all? If not this whole chain concept is not worth it. I argue that special weapons in trees are not worth it in general, except as backups (Shadow blades, Flame blades ...).

Cheers,
Titus.

[Nugaot]

I didn't read all posts, my apologies. Is the chain affected by feats and other enhancements at all? If not this whole chain concept is not worth it. I argue that special weapons in trees are not worth it in general, except as backups (Shadow blades, Flame blades ...).

Cheers,
Titus.

I actually do really like the shattermantle effect you can get on shadowblades/imbued weapons. I can actually land spells on high SR enemies like golems after a few swings.

[Vyrzain]

..................... (And yes, this hypothetical was against a single target and not AOE, but we're keeping eyes there too).

Thanks… it is the AoE part… thus per hit and per Foe that really concerns me.
A lot of people pull 5+ Foes into their AoE attack and my fear is this Chain attack would cause Lag spikes to the Effects Queue.

And because you are making this Chain Attack a Light Weapon now EACH hit per Foe could have something like the below in one Light weapon… taken off random weapons on the AH today…
Tendon Slice = on-hit 6% chance to slow per Foe in the AoE per x3 hits in one chain attack
Slay Living = when used has a chance to kill per Foe in the AoE per x3 hits in one chain attack
Deception = chance for SA per Foe in the AoE per x3 hits in one chain attack
AND THEN a Red slot on this light weapon with something like Star Ruby = 2% chance to AoE knockdown per Foe in the AoE per x3 hits in one chain attack

ALL of these effects are on top of the effects given in the Tree for the Chain attack!

Then you have Stacking Weapon effects / enhancements from Trees that could compound this!
Something like Gloom Stalker in this Tree gives a chance to Blind targets…. thus 3 attacks to per Foe in the AoE.

Plus something like the Rune Arm “Hand of Tombs” would add a another Vorpal effect to all three attacks per Foe in the AoE!

If this new Chain was not AoE or not a Light Weapon then I would have no concerns on Lag.
With BOTH though it scares me that everything you did in the last patch would be undone : (

Think about just two Shadar-kai in a Group chain pulling with this New Chain Attack and that every 12 sec the Servers take a hit to the Effects Queue because each Shadar-kai with a good light weapon could be making the Server check 9+ Effects per Foe in the AoE x3 : (

[Artos_Fabril]

Think about just two Shadar-kai in a Group chain pulling with this New Chain Attack and that every 12 sec the Servers take a hit to the Effects Queue because each Shadar-kai with a good light weapon could be making the Server check 9+ Effects per Foe in the AoE x3 : (

Since your average level 30 THF hits 4-5 enemies about twice per second, I don't think 3 hits over 2-3 seconds even on a dozen mobs is going to be that taxing on the servers.

I haven't noticed any significant reduction in lag since U49, so even if there were enough chains going off to add back half of the procs that were nerfed away, I can't imagine it having a noticeable impact either.

[TitusOvid]

I actually do really like the shattermantle effect you can get on shadowblades/imbued weapons. I can actually land spells on high SR enemies like golems after a few swings.

I am fine with extra effects. I welcome them actually and shattermantle especially. But if those unique weapons won't get supported by other enhancement and trees it will be just fluff. And switching weapons to and fro is discouraged by the code.

Cheers,
Titus.

[Nugaot]

Fair, but one of our primary design goals in designing abilities for Iconics is to give players build options for a class that let them play that class differently - A Paladin with Repair, a Charisma-based Fighter, a Barbarian with Handwraps, an Assassin with good AOE options.

I wonder, since both a cleric tree and an iconic racial tree are being given a pass now, if we can look forward to one for Morninglord at some point in the future? It's one that probably struggles the most with having a unique identity. Dex and Int in cores, racial AA tree, bonuses to mauls and maces, and it's locked to one deity. Other iconics push you toward a certain playstyle, but Morninglord seems very confused.

[draven1]

Way over-due, but, welcome!
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...-kai-so-gimped
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...racials-so-bad

Most of roguish abilities have
1. way longer cooldowns(Consume : 2 mins, Shadow manipulation : 2 mins, Shadow phase : 1 min, Shadow Jaunt : 1 min, Shadow phase & jaunt shares cooldown),
2. way longer activation animation(Consume, Shadow manipulation, shadow dagger),
3. super low DC(All of roguish DC abilities have at least 20+ DC lower than caster's),
4. the ability itself is totally useless(Poison abilities, trap making),
5. make you slower(sneaking)
6. broken(Consume still have a bug that old implosion had, targeting nearby party members, so, it won't proc.)
7. not work for 35% of time regardless of DC(Executioner's Strike/Shot)
8. no dex based trance

So, devs might wondered why everyone left rogue, especially an assassin, which is far behind of current meta : AOE clear room in 1~3 sec.

To match current meta, you need to give more power for Shadar-kai, shadowdancer, rogue enhancement, etc.
1. Speed and swiftness
2. Cooldown reduction
3. DC boost around enhancement, reaper enhancement, shadowdancer DC, itemization, etc
4. fix for broken thing (Consume, and executioner's strike)
5. usefulness of "Spring feywild set"
6. Complete revamp of poison & trap making abilities

Revamping Shadar-kai might have some portion of this.
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...t=#post6248560
1. Cooldown reduction of shadow jaunt, phase to 10 sec, both have separate cooldown
2. adding Assassinate DC to tier 3(Deep gnome have +3 illusion on tier 3)
3. raise usefulness of chain a lot
4. true seeing or fear immunity
5. stacking incorporeal +15%
6. dex based trance
7. stacking sneak movement speed +15%
8. active Pseudo Assassinate ability like executioner's strike or execute.
9. stat for 4th core like any other races
10. Some "GET OVER HERE!!" like ability

[cadaverash]

The question of "Well, what race SHOULD Thief-Acrobats be" is a good one though; I don't have an obvious answer, but it's something to consider when we get around to making new Races.


[/I]

I have a SDK Thief-Acrobat, it's awesome.

I only take the core abilities for shadow jaunt plus the two backstab dice for 1ap each.

Full stealth build and works great.

Also did a Horc build for two handed weapons, strike through and helpless.

That build was also awesome.

I did SDK archers back before archer was nerfed, taking the core abilities plus the two backstabs.

That was also awesome, being able to shoot and shadow jaunt out of the way when I got agro.

Speaking of nerfs, I have a SDK Alchemist knife fighter build that I haven't TR'ed or played much since that nerf.

That improvement to chain thingy might be what he needs to be awesome again!

[kpak01]

Most of roguish abilities have
...
3. super low DC(All of roguish DC abilities have at least 20+ DC lower than caster's),
4. the ability itself is totally useless(Poison abilities, trap making),

These don't seem accurate at all.

20 points lower DC than caster doesn't seem to match reality either. My 1st-lifer Assassin, on a non-Int race, without a top Int tome, without maxed Sentient, has a better Assassination DC than many casters have DC (124). How many first-life, off-stat, missing-tome, missing SXP casters (I did say first-life, right)? have a 144 DC? And that's not even mentioning that casters get an effective -6 from Epic Resilience.

And trap-making is super-useful. It might not be needed if you have a caster throwing 144 DC Mass Holds around, but it gives a great CC option when party make-up isn't the platonic ideal. Maybe you're doing it wrong?

[draven1]

These don't seem accurate at all.

20 points lower DC than caster doesn't seem to match reality either.

This build have 142 standing DC, 150+ for boosted DC. 124 DC is 26+ DC behind of it. And the caster also have 5k hp, high prr, mrr.
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...Raiding-Wizard

You just can't assassinate almost anything in feywild R10, while the caster can instakill those very easily, also can tank R10 doom reapers.

And trap-making is super-useful.

If the trap-making is super-useful, why don't most people want to gather trap parts on trapper?
Trap making is almost useless, because IT IS SO SLOW, when you completed planting traps, the battle is already over.
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...p-parts-please

So, who's doing wrong?

[rfachini]

Nice improvements!

Please also prioritize raising the level cap.