DeathTitan DC caster druid

[jskinner937]

My apologies....I meant Fatesinger. Its a tier 4 option.

Honestly fatesinger might be a good tree as a secondary for a caster druid. Adding sonic damage and the mantle adds sonic procs. Not much is immune to it.

[Ultinoob]

Tier 4 in primal avatar has natures reach for 3/6/9 and 5/10/15 discount on enlarge and spell power. Maybe that is an option...

[Michele]

Tier 4 in primal avatar has natures reach for 3/6/9 and 5/10/15 discount on enlarge and spell power. Maybe that is an option...

I don't have enlarge spell feat and I'm looking for something that gives it for free:
that's feydark illusionist core or fatesinger tier 4 as jskinner937 suggested.
This build is focused on evocation DC.

Any of you tested fatesinger greatest shout sla? It says that it stuns and I would like to know if it makes mobs helpless and for how long.

[jskinner937]

I don't have enlarge spell feat and I'm looking for something that gives it for free:
that's feydark illusionist core or fatesinger tier 4 as jskinner937 suggested.
This build is focused on evocation DC.

Any of you tested fatesinger greatest shout sla? It says that it stuns and I would like to know if it makes mobs helpless and for how long.

I believe the description is bugged as it actually dazes similar to soundburst. But the daze does persist through damage. I am not 100% sure about the helpless damage portion though, I thought they fixed it awhile ago so that it does.

[Michele]

added more points of DC to the build.
fatesinger gives +2 wisdom and +1 DC compared to the other trees.
primal avatar gives +2 wisdom from spirit boon.
fatesinger gives free enlarge spell feat at no cost, so I have more action points for dragonborn enhancements because I don't have to get free enlarge feat from feydark illusionist tree anymore.
Jskinner937 is right: Greatest Shout SLA from Fatesinger destiny doesn't make mobs helpless (is it a bug?).

[magaiti]

How do You get 57 fate points?!

36 from 12 EDs
3 from fate tomes
17 from past lives (5 arcane/4 martial/4 divine/4 primal)

this should amount to 56...

[Michele]

How do You get 57 fate points?!

36 from 12 EDs
3 from fate tomes
17 from past lives (5 arcane/4 martial/4 divine/4 primal)

this should amount to 56...

you are probably missing the +1 from historic tome (that I got for free by owning packs that included epic destinies):
https://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Tome_of_Destiny

[magaiti]

you are probably missing the +1 from historic tome (that I got for free by owning packs that included epic destinies):
https://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Tome_of_Destiny

No, Tome OF Destiny (Historic) gives +1 destiny point, not a fate point.

[Marcb81]

added more points of DC to the build.
fatesinger gives +2 wisdom and +1 DC compared to the other trees.
primal avatar gives +2 wisdom from spirit boon.
fatesinger gives free enlarge spell feat at no cost, so I have more action points for dragonborn enhancements because I don't have to get free enlarge feat from feydark illusionist tree anymore.
Jskinner937 is right: Greatest Shout SLA from Fatesinger destiny doesn't make mobs helpless (is it a bug?).

You have to have hit the theoretical max at this point. I think you're up to 130 Evo DC with mantle debuff, really impressive. I just started playing a cold druid at cap, and I haven't played Sharn yet. I think with the debuff my Evo is around 115-120 (don't have many past-lives and no completionist, racial AP). I have played through R10 Feywild and a couple R10 quests like Grim, Subversion, Multitude, etc (with a good group). So far, I feel like the 115-120 is working pretty well. It makes me wonder if it's worth giving up so much for DCs. For example, giving up +2 Alch Wis from the shield allows you to use Reflection of Wave for a massive damage increase (35% or so). Similarly, the 2x +1 Wis feats for 1 DC could be wellspring of Power and Intensify spell for over 200 spell power and 200+ spell points. I think you are a better player than me and just wanted to ask if you feel the highest DCs are still needed post update 51. At least for older endgame content, I feel like there's more wiggle room on DCs compared to pre-51.

Marc

[Michele]

In high reaper feywild they are still often saving, some mobs escape my earthquake (especially goblin archers) and rush to me (or throw an arrow in my head :-D ).

In R10 sharn I have to use heighten feat with Salt Ray (and its spell points cost raise a lot): it's a save versus fortitude and without heighten feat they will save against it.

You can step in R10 grim and barret, cast earthquake + ice storm, you will notice that some demons will escape your earthquake and run towards you anyway (some will save, probably because they roll 20? I don't know).

Another example is when in R10 sharn everyone is crowd controlled in an earthquake, then a despair reaper appears and magically all mobs ignore your eartquake and attack you (because their saves are buffed by the reaper).

More DC is needed also for illusion (greater color spray) and transmutation (ice flowers) and for those I don't have spell focus feats or +3 DC from dragonborn or +4 from scion of water.

Dragonborn dragon breath enhancement sla is charisma based.

Can you tell me how the Reflection of wave staff can increase a druid dps compared to an alchemical shield?
Probably you missed my "legendary fusible sceptre of impulse with impulse +142, insightful impulse +71, kinetic lore +21%" (very important for tsunami and ice flowers and salt ray and word of balance),
anyway Alchemical shield gives +22% ice lore and +148 glaciation versus only 21% ice lore and 145 glaciation of Reflection of Wave.

I don't remember that Cladding of dead leaves armor exceptional universal spell lore +5% and exceptional universal spell power +15 stack with Reflection of Wave bonuses in elemental form; By making the difference with my current equipment, I would get:
+3 caster levels (for dragon breath? tsunami caps at 20? I don't remember);
32 exceptional cold spell power;
4% cold spell critical damage.

But I would lose:
- impulse +142, insightful impulse +71, kinetic lore +21%;
- the large shield bonus (+mrr, +prr, double mrr against spells);
- 2 wisdom;

About the dps: I tested R8 best laid plans and an iron golem is killed in 4 seconds with salt ray + freezing spray + dragon breath + tsunami.

Wellspring of power is 30 seconds duration with 3 minutes cooldown, and intensify spell and empower spell are cool, but until I don't reach the no fail zone I'm focused to DC spellcasting.

Mantle of the icy soul debuff kicks in only when you hit mobs with cold spells first, but in many situations I hold mobs with salt ray and greater color spray first, so that debuff doesn't apply (ice flowers and ice storm have delayed effect and in high reaper wins who attacks first... it's a matter of 1 second or less).

In my opinion, 130 evocation DC would be ideal (I would even say a starting point for a DC caster for feywild and sharn, but old content is easier and you will be ok with less).

You have to have hit the theoretical max at this point. I think you're up to 130 Evo DC with mantle debuff, really impressive. I just started playing a cold druid at cap, and I haven't played Sharn yet. I think with the debuff my Evo is around 115-120 (don't have many past-lives and no completionist, racial AP). I have played through R10 Feywild and a couple R10 quests like Grim, Subversion, Multitude, etc (with a good group). So far, I feel like the 115-120 is working pretty well. It makes me wonder if it's worth giving up so much for DCs. For example, giving up +2 Alch Wis from the shield allows you to use Reflection of Wave for a massive damage increase (35% or so). Similarly, the 2x +1 Wis feats for 1 DC could be wellspring of Power and Intensify spell for over 200 spell power and 200+ spell points. I think you are a better player than me and just wanted to ask if you feel the highest DCs are still needed post update 51. At least for older endgame content, I feel like there's more wiggle room on DCs compared to pre-51.

Marc

[mikarddo]

How do You get 57 fate points?!

36 from 12 EDs
3 from fate tomes
17 from past lives (5 arcane/4 martial/4 divine/4 primal)

this should amount to 56...

That does confuse me as well. As already posted the historic tome is +1 Destiny Point, not +1 Fate Point.
I am really curious where that extra Fate Point is coming from.

[Michele]

No, Tome OF Destiny (Historic) gives +1 destiny point, not a fate point.

Sorry, this new system is so confusing, I tried to understand how it works without success: maybe one day I'll spend more time to try to understand this new points system.

[Marcb81]

In high reaper feywild they are still often saving, some mobs escape my earthquake (especially goblin archers) and rush to me (or throw an arrow in my head :-D ).

In R10 sharn I have to use heighten feat with Salt Ray (and its spell points cost raise a lot): it's a save versus fortitude and without heighten feat they will save against it.

You can step in R10 grim and barret, cast earthquake + ice storm, you will notice that some demons will escape your earthquake and run towards you anyway (some will save, probably because they roll 20? I don't know).

Another example is when in R10 sharn everyone is crowd controlled in an earthquake, then a despair reaper appears and magically all mobs ignore your eartquake and attack you (because their saves are buffed by the reaper).

More DC is needed also for illusion (greater color spray) and transmutation (ice flowers) and for those I don't have spell focus feats or +3 DC from dragonborn or +4 from scion of water.

Dragonborn dragon breath enhancement sla is charisma based.

Can you tell me how the Reflection of wave staff can increase a druid dps compared to an alchemical shield?
Probably you missed my "legendary fusible sceptre of impulse with impulse +142, insightful impulse +71, kinetic lore +21%" (very important for tsunami and ice flowers and salt ray and word of balance),
anyway Alchemical shield gives +22% ice lore and +148 glaciation versus only 21% ice lore and 145 glaciation of Reflection of Wave.

I don't remember that Cladding of dead leaves armor exceptional universal spell lore +5% and exceptional universal spell power +15 stack with Reflection of Wave bonuses in elemental form; By making the difference with my current equipment, I would get:
+3 caster levels (for dragon breath? tsunami caps at 20? I don't remember);
32 exceptional cold spell power;
4% cold spell critical damage.

But I would lose:
- impulse +142, insightful impulse +71, kinetic lore +21%;
- the large shield bonus (+mrr, +prr, double mrr against spells);
- 2 wisdom;

About the dps: I tested R8 best laid plans and an iron golem is killed in 4 seconds with salt ray + freezing spray + dragon breath + tsunami.

Wellspring of power is 30 seconds duration with 3 minutes cooldown, and intensify spell and empower spell are cool, but until I don't reach the no fail zone I'm focused to DC spellcasting.

Mantle of the icy soul debuff kicks in only when you hit mobs with cold spells first, but in many situations I hold mobs with salt ray and greater color spray first, so that debuff doesn't apply (ice flowers and ice storm have delayed effect and in high reaper wins who attacks first... it's a matter of 1 second or less).

In my opinion, 130 evocation DC would be ideal (I would even say a starting point for a DC caster for feywild and sharn, but old content is easier and you will be ok with less).

Thanks again for such a detailed response. I wanted to say that I didn't forget about your Impulse scepter for damage. I play a pretty different build that uses the Flamecleansed Fury Set. I know this requires another loss of DC from quality since you can't use the band minor artifact, but it does increase force spell crit chance and spell power (30 artifact that stacks with autumn). Also, since it comes with a devotion lore bonus on the bracers, kinetic lore can go on the SL belt to make up for losing it on the scepter. In the end, I would lose some force spell power (mostly insightful on the scepter) but gain 30 exceptional cold (stacks with cladding of dead leaves or in my case clouded dreams), 5% crit mult cold (stacks with cladding of dead leaves/clouded dreams), and 5 cold caster levels (pretty sure Wave still gives a full 5 caster levels for Dragon breath, which has no max lvl cap so caster lvl goes from 33 to 38 ie 15% more damage from caster levels alone, not sure if tsunami has a lvl 20 cap or not). Taking intensify spell would make up for the lost force spell power while also boosting cold spell power. Wellspring may not be worth it but can be doubled in duration since you're going T4 Draconic Incarnation. I also tend to use Attunement's Gaze for the extra +2 DC compared to Crown of Snow to help with Transmute and Illusion DCs.

My example above results in the following changes:
Kinetic Lore: Unchanged (moved from scepter to SL Belt)
Force Lore: unchanged (lose insightful force 70 on scepter but gain Intensify spell 75 for salt ray and ice flowers and possibly Wellspring if taken for an additional 150).
Cold spells: Gain 30 exc Cold spell power to all spells from Wave, 5% Cold crit mult to all spells from Wave, 5 caster levels to Dragon's breath and possibly tsunami (given max lvl cap for other cold spells), 75 Cold spell power to all spells from Intensify spell, possibly 150 from Wellspring. This should increase Cold spell power by 100-250 depending upon Wellspring and significantly boost Dragon breath damage
Gain: Positive spell power benefits from Flamecleansed Fury set bonus and Wellspring if taken
Gain: Electric and Sonic spell power AND lore from Reflection of Wave, which could make Stormrage, Storm of Vengeance, and Greatest Shout from Fatesinger viable options (of Note Electric would get full spell power between Wave and Bottled Rainstorm).
Lose: 2 Alch Wis, 1 qual DC (can't use band winor artifact), -1 Wis from feats for intensify spell or -2 if you take Wellspring of Power (lose 2-3 DC overall)
- lose defense benefits of a shield
- lose some benefits from not going 7-p Autumn such as 10% spell points and 15% leg. crit mult

Honestly, I think you're layout is probably the best, but there are some trade-offs. The above example definitely sacrifices DCs but will likely end up in more overall damage largely because of feats like Intensify and Wellspring along with Reflection of Wave making cold spells and dragon's breath in particular much more damaging, while not losing much to Force spell power. I think what I really want to figure out is what are the costs for going all in on DCs? Do you feel a big difference with your new set-up going from Evo DC 128 to 130 with the addition of Fatesinger? If you decided to aim for a 128 DC instead of 130, such as picking different epic feats instead of Wisdom, could you gain something that you would notice more than the 1-2 DC loss? Lastly, I think it matters if you play solo or in a group. The weight of having one out of six enemies save on your earthquake is a lot heavier when soloing compared to playing in a group. Anyway, I have learned a lot from your builds and am just trying to ask questions to keep learning. Thank you again for your time and willingness to share your builds. I'm sure there are many more people who appreciate it.

Marc

[Ultinoob]

I know i know. It's not a good race, but you can get 7 to wisdom from it.

You then loose 1 caster level, 2 max caster levels, 30 spell power to cold and +3 evo/conj dc from not being dragonborn. This is a lot to loose i know.

But your ice flowers and finger of death gains +3.5 dc and your evo dc 0.5. If you can find one more wisdom somewhere so you are not uneven this would give you one more dc to evocation.

You could also look at it another way and take epic wisdom instead of epic spell focus evocation and get +1 dc to transmutation and necromancy and not loosing anything on evo.

I can see you loose a lot of dps with 2 max caster levels to greater/creeping cold, ice flowers, tsunami and maybe even dragonbreath?

Just a thought.

[jskinner937]

That does confuse me as well. As already posted the historic tome is +1 Destiny Point, not +1 Fate Point.
I am really curious where that extra Fate Point is coming from.

56 fate points is currently the max.

[Michele]

Thanks again for such a detailed response. I wanted to say that I didn't forget about your Impulse scepter for damage. I play a pretty different build that uses the Flamecleansed Fury Set. I know this requires another loss of DC from quality since you can't use the band minor artifact, but it does increase force spell crit chance and spell power (30 artifact that stacks with autumn). Also, since it comes with a devotion lore bonus on the bracers, kinetic lore can go on the SL belt to make up for losing it on the scepter. In the end, I would lose some force spell power (mostly insightful on the scepter) but gain 30 exceptional cold (stacks with cladding of dead leaves or in my case clouded dreams), 5% crit mult cold (stacks with cladding of dead leaves/clouded dreams), and 5 cold caster levels (pretty sure Wave still gives a full 5 caster levels for Dragon breath, which has no max lvl cap so caster lvl goes from 33 to 38 ie 15% more damage from caster levels alone, not sure if tsunami has a lvl 20 cap or not). Taking intensify spell would make up for the lost force spell power while also boosting cold spell power. Wellspring may not be worth it but can be doubled in duration since you're going T4 Draconic Incarnation. I also tend to use Attunement's Gaze for the extra +2 DC compared to Crown of Snow to help with Transmute and Illusion DCs.

My example above results in the following changes:
Kinetic Lore: Unchanged (moved from scepter to SL Belt)
Force Lore: unchanged (lose insightful force 70 on scepter but gain Intensify spell 75 for salt ray and ice flowers and possibly Wellspring if taken for an additional 150).
Cold spells: Gain 30 exc Cold spell power to all spells from Wave, 5% Cold crit mult to all spells from Wave, 5 caster levels to Dragon's breath and possibly tsunami (given max lvl cap for other cold spells), 75 Cold spell power to all spells from Intensify spell, possibly 150 from Wellspring. This should increase Cold spell power by 100-250 depending upon Wellspring and significantly boost Dragon breath damage
Gain: Positive spell power benefits from Flamecleansed Fury set bonus and Wellspring if taken
Gain: Electric and Sonic spell power AND lore from Reflection of Wave, which could make Stormrage, Storm of Vengeance, and Greatest Shout from Fatesinger viable options (of Note Electric would get full spell power between Wave and Bottled Rainstorm).
Lose: 2 Alch Wis, 1 qual DC (can't use band winor artifact), -1 Wis from feats for intensify spell or -2 if you take Wellspring of Power (lose 2-3 DC overall)
- lose defense benefits of a shield
- lose some benefits from not going 7-p Autumn such as 10% spell points and 15% leg. crit mult

Honestly, I think you're layout is probably the best, but there are some trade-offs. The above example definitely sacrifices DCs but will likely end up in more overall damage largely because of feats like Intensify and Wellspring along with Reflection of Wave making cold spells and dragon's breath in particular much more damaging, while not losing much to Force spell power. I think what I really want to figure out is what are the costs for going all in on DCs? Do you feel a big difference with your new set-up going from Evo DC 128 to 130 with the addition of Fatesinger? If you decided to aim for a 128 DC instead of 130, such as picking different epic feats instead of Wisdom, could you gain something that you would notice more than the 1-2 DC loss? Lastly, I think it matters if you play solo or in a group. The weight of having one out of six enemies save on your earthquake is a lot heavier when soloing compared to playing in a group. Anyway, I have learned a lot from your builds and am just trying to ask questions to keep learning. Thank you again for your time and willingness to share your builds. I'm sure there are many more people who appreciate it.

Marc

My druid role in r10 feywild and sharn quests in group is to crowd control mobs and heall party members, only after that I'm allowed to damage mobs (despair reapers can make every point of DC worth to be taken).
My evocation DC is 126, not 128 or 130 as you wrote above, crafted goggles give +6 evocation DC instead of +5 of attunements gaze, your electric and sonic spells will always do less damage than ice flowers spammed every 2 seconds, alchemical shield gives +2 levels to cold spell, I switch to healing scepter and legendary green steel scepter with healing amplification when I self heal in r10, if I don't put heighten feat on salt ray in feywild r10 then mobs will save often and salt ray would cost a lot less without heighten spell.

Not all players have all my past lives and 126 DC can still fail in the most difficult content: so I suggest this build because higher the DC, better is the druid (you will do half damage if mobs save, and they will save ice flowers because it is transmutation school).

Edit: I forgot to mention that the +5 caster levels of Reflection of wave staff are useful only for epic destiny slas that do not have a level cap, while for the standard druid spells are useless because they are level capped (I'm not sure about Tsunami because the description doesn't mention any max caster level).

[magaiti]

56 fate points is currently the max.

[Michele]

I know i know. It's not a good race, but you can get 7 to wisdom from it.

You then loose 1 caster level, 2 max caster levels, 30 spell power to cold and +3 evo/conj dc from not being dragonborn. This is a lot to loose i know.

But your ice flowers and finger of death gains +3.5 dc and your evo dc 0.5. If you can find one more wisdom somewhere so you are not uneven this would give you one more dc to evocation.

You could also look at it another way and take epic wisdom instead of epic spell focus evocation and get +1 dc to transmutation and necromancy and not loosing anything on evo.

I can see you loose a lot of dps with 2 max caster levels to greater/creeping cold, ice flowers, tsunami and maybe even dragonbreath?

Just a thought.

I don't know how many rage charges I have, how much is each rage duration, do rage prevent spell casting? if ys, what do I have to sacrifice to prevent that?

Schools different from evocation will often fail anyway in r10 feywild because I'm not focused in them.

[Marcb81]

I don't know how many rage charges I have, how much is each rage duration, do rage prevent spell casting? if ys, what do I have to sacrifice to prevent that?

Schools different from evocation will often fail anyway in r10 feywild because I'm not focused in them.

I’m currently running a shifter. I have 11 rages. They recharge every 90 sec. you can cast while raged if you go 11 pts in racial. You can also get a 5p the Blood feast filigree swap for an extra 1k HP on rage that lasts 10 min. I haven’t done this yet but will very soon. This can be done between encounters, I think. If I use this plus Winters Heart it will be around 1800 extra HP for me. Rage duration is around 4 min each if you spend one point in 25% duration. I don’t have racial AP. If you spend up to 75%, they will last more than 5 min each. If you use filigree swap you will likely want them to recharge, so you can dismiss and reuse between fights for extra HP. I think number of rages is more important than duration.

[Michele]

I’m currently running a shifter. I have 11 rages. They recharge every 90 sec. you can cast while raged if you go 11 pts in racial. You can also get a 5p the Blood feast filigree swap for an extra 1k HP on rage that lasts 10 min. I haven’t done this yet but will very soon. This can be done between encounters, I think. If I use this plus Winters Heart it will be around 1800 extra HP for me. Rage duration is around 4 min each if you spend one point in 25% duration. I don’t have racial AP. If you spend up to 75%, they will last more than 5 min each. If you use filigree swap you will likely want them to recharge, so you can dismiss and reuse between fights for extra HP. I think number of rages is more important than duration.

Thank you for the information