Thief Acrobat Race?

[Aelonwy]

OP mentioned going DEX-based to take advantage of DEX bonuses from Acrobat; also Sweeping Strikes DC is based on DEX and you need base DEX 21 for Improved Sneak Attack. Plus it saves a few APs by not going for Strategic Combat II in Harper; which doesn't sound like a lot, but like I said - APs are tight on pure Acrobats.

The last two Acrobat cores are pretty solid now: passively gain +2 to maximum dodge, +2 Strength and Dexterity, +20% Doublestrike while using staves, +1 to hit and +2 damage with quarterstaves, +5% attack speed with quarterstaves, +2 critical hit damage with all weapons, +2 Balance, Jump, and Tumble, +2 Sneak Attack dice and +2 to hit when performing Sneak Attacks. And gain some temp bonuses after Tumbling: +2 Morale bonus to Strength and Dexterity, +50% strikethrough chance and gain On Vorpal: Your target is knocked down for 12 seconds.

Maybe if you're already at or near the Doublestrike cap, the extra +20% DS is overkill; but an extra +5% attack speed on top of the +15% from Acrobatics is always welcome. I mean Cetus's latest fighter build is based on VKF capstone's +5% attack speed being universal now, as well as Doublestrike and Melee Power bonuses in VKF; though granted this works in part because he can hit 99% Doublestrike without Kensei capstone.

I think the main incentive to monk 6 is Shadow Veil; 25% Incorporealty doesn't have many sources. But the tradeoff is switching from light armor to robes so lower MRR cap. Plus you're still AP-constrained. Decisions, decisions...

Pretty much ALL^ of that has gone into my thoughts. I have tried a monk/rogue henshin/TA split... it didn't go well for me but perhaps its mostly because I do not play monk well in DDO and its so unlike monk in P&P with which I'm far more familiar. So far this character has been a human rog/monk (Split wis/dex base), a Shadar-kai TA/Assassin dex/int based, and is now a halforc 18rog/2fighter str based. Her first two lives she didn't do an ER, just went TRed to basically start over. This life I was really enjoying her and got 3 or 4 epic past lives but now its too much a struggle to get back to 30 so I was looking to play her as a pure rogue acrobat which encourages Dex based.

[Saekee]

It is a melee tree with mainly dodge defenses and some burst PRR, no melee power. Secondly, the THF line needs STR altough with tomes that can now be mostly covered.

A halfling can raise the armor dodge bonus while adding uncostly sneak damage. If you got a solid Str tome bonus, that is the best thematic synergy.

There is otherwise just no AP free to spend in a racial tree since you would splurge in assassin. While
leveling, tier4 execute in assassin is really good.

Another option is to build against the weaknesses of a TA but why do that? That is bland generic playing. This class dies when hit, but just never let yourself be the target. There are lots of players that need to be able to charge into a room and swing away or blow stuff up, so aggro control is easy in a group.

[unbongwah]

Now that Blitz is harder to sustain due to the Doublestrike changes, my hunch is that FotW is the stronger ED for Acrobats. Apart from Adrenaline, you get:

• "Bloodbath: While in Two Handed Fighting Style, your Vorpal Threat Range is increased to 19-20." This should apply to Acrobat's capstone knockdown.
• "Overwhelming Force: Passive Bonus: Melee attacks under the effect of Adrenaline knock down enemies for [2/6/10] seconds." Unlike Sweeping Strikes, this causes helplessness. Couple with:
• Sense Weakness and Acrobat's No Mercy stack.
• +40% static Strikethrough and +100% burst Strikethrough (Unbridled Fury).
• +61 Melee Power (36 from cores, 25 from Strong Swings.

[kamimitsu]

I'm preparing to TR my Thief Acrobat. I'm getting bored with her at cap... she's ERed 2 or maybe 3x now. I just can't stomach doing it again now that leveling in epics will be so torturous with no first time bonuses and most/all my wilderness zones played out as far as I'm willing.

I still want her to be a Thief Acrobat... but well I created her initially way back when MotU came on the scene, she's only on her third heroic life. (I alternate amongst my alts a lot) She's been a lot of fun... but she's a half orc. Hear me out... I created her as a half orc because it seemed to have the most benefit to a 2HF fighting style. But there just isn't much/any synergy for a rogue. Still been hella fun. However, the TA tree is all about Dex, so I thought I might try her as a dex based TA on a dex based race... only there doesn't seem to be any race that supports or synergizes well with a quarterstaff build.

Am I missing something obvious?

What race do you guys think is the best fit for a dex based TA?

Before dismissing Shadar-kai outright, you might want to look at the proposed Shada-kai changes (chain attack that may actually work, perma displacement, etc.). Just saying. It MAY be a perfectly viable option in the near future, with a fair bit of rogue synergy.

Thread here.

[Stoner81]

OP mentioned going DEX-based to take advantage of DEX bonuses from Acrobat; also Sweeping Strikes DC is based on DEX and you need base DEX 21 for Improved Sneak Attack. Plus it saves a few APs by not going for Strategic Combat II in Harper; which doesn't sound like a lot, but like I said - APs are tight on pure Acrobats.

The last two Acrobat cores are pretty solid now: passively gain +2 to maximum dodge, +2 Strength and Dexterity, +20% Doublestrike while using staves, +1 to hit and +2 damage with quarterstaves, +5% attack speed with quarterstaves, +2 critical hit damage with all weapons, +2 Balance, Jump, and Tumble, +2 Sneak Attack dice and +2 to hit when performing Sneak Attacks. And gain some temp bonuses after Tumbling: +2 Morale bonus to Strength and Dexterity, +50% strikethrough chance and gain On Vorpal: Your target is knocked down for 12 seconds.

Maybe if you're already at or near the Doublestrike cap, the extra +20% DS is overkill; but an extra +5% attack speed on top of the +15% from Acrobatics is always welcome. I mean Cetus's latest fighter build is based on VKF capstone's +5% attack speed being universal now, as well as Doublestrike and Melee Power bonuses in VKF; though granted this works in part because he can hit 99% Doublestrike without Kensei capstone.

I think the main incentive to monk 6 is Shadow Veil; 25% Incorporealty doesn't have many sources. But the tradeoff is switching from light armor to robes so lower MRR cap. Plus you're still AP-constrained. Decisions, decisions...

I said it was an idea... I didn't say it was a GOOD idea LMAO! If it were me I'd probably just go Human for the extra feat.

Stoner81.

[Faltout]

Before dismissing Shadar-kai outright, you might want to look at the proposed Shada-kai changes (chain attack that may actually work, perma displacement, etc.). Just saying. It MAY be a perfectly viable option in the near future, with a fair bit of rogue synergy.

Thread here.

The chain attack is not going to work for quarterstaves (or any other non-light weapon)

[kamimitsu]

The chain attack is not going to work for quarterstaves (or any other non-light weapon)

Unless the community can convince the devs otherwise, it's not set in stone yet. No reason we can't push them to add a "quarterstaves can be treated as light weapons" somewhere in Acrobat (or SDK).

Though I just re-read the thread and it seems they have dismissed the idea. Oh well.

[Aelonwy]

Now that Blitz is harder to sustain due to the Doublestrike changes, my hunch is that FotW is the stronger ED for Acrobats. Apart from Adrenaline, you get:

• "Bloodbath: While in Two Handed Fighting Style, your Vorpal Threat Range is increased to 19-20." This should apply to Acrobat's capstone knockdown.
• "Overwhelming Force: Passive Bonus: Melee attacks under the effect of Adrenaline knock down enemies for [2/6/10] seconds." Unlike Sweeping Strikes, this causes helplessness. Couple with:
• Sense Weakness and Acrobat's No Mercy stack.
• +40% static Strikethrough and +100% burst Strikethrough (Unbridled Fury).
• +61 Melee Power (36 from cores, 25 from Strong Swings.

My half orc TA was in FotW, it was great! Squishy but so much fun. I do wish I had more higher twists to grab some things from Shadowdancer but I haven't even touched the Arcane sphere so I'm missing a lot of Fate Points? IDK whatever they're called that you earn for twists. I double checked because I was going off of memory before and this life she has earned 2x Primal Ancient Power, and 1x Martial Ancient Tactics for Epic Past life feats. I just can't force myself to go back up to 30 again, she earned 5k favor this life (my third character to do so) and I took a Dex tome with the intention of having a dex based TA next life. Maybe I should have taken str so I'd never have to worry about the 2HF feat line again. She has a +2 str tome but... that still leaves halfling less than ideal with its str penalty.

Unless the community can convince the devs otherwise, it's not set in stone yet. No reason we can't push them to add a "quarterstaves can be treated as light weapons" somewhere in Acrobat (or SDK).

Though I just re-read the thread and it seems they have dismissed the idea. Oh well.

I want to have hope that we can change their minds but experience has shown me that quite frequently once they have a "plan" in motion something they've spent man hours on our feedback might change small things like what tier an enhancement is on or whether it costs 1 AP or 2, etc. but its quite possible that getting an exception for quarterstaves will require significant programming... and they may not have the time to include it. I can respect that, but as we've seen things put on the back burner... well sometimes they go back there to smolder for half a decade or more.

[Propane]

I think the main incentive to monk 6 is Shadow Veil; 25% Incorporealty doesn't have many sources. But the tradeoff is switching from light armor to robes so lower MRR cap. Plus you're still AP-constrained. Decisions, decisions...

Running in GrandMaster of Rain/Water is pretty decent...
6 Monk gives you 3 feats - two of three needed to get to Grandmaster so +1 feat when dust settles...

[Enderoc]

I remember a character who was a thief acrobat and they named her Grace Jones...you know the chick that played the Q-staff barbarian in Conan? Barbarian seems a good multi for Acrobat actually...Would have done good with half orc.

[Aelonwy]

I remember a character who was a thief acrobat and they named her Grace Jones...you know the chick that played the Q-staff barbarian in Conan? Barbarian seems a good multi for Acrobat actually...Would have done good with half orc.

Grace Jones was obviously not a half orc though, Nimble and super thin - a more accurate depiction would probably be some kind of elf, she seemed pretty wild in that film... is there a type of wild elf?

Also the animated version of Dungeons and Dragons (1983-1985) Diana the Acrobat seemed to also give the impression of a Barbarian from her fur bikini and boots.

[unbongwah]

I remember a character who was a thief acrobat and they named her Grace Jones...you know the chick that played the Q-staff barbarian in Conan? Barbarian seems a good multi for Acrobat actually...Would have done good with half orc.

I dunno how well it stands up today but yeah: barbarian 18 / rogue 2 is one option. Tier-5 barb tree of your choice; 11+ APs into Acrobat for Acrobatics, Quick Strike, and Haste Boost. You could even do barb 12 / ftr 6 / rog 2: tier-5 Ravager for Critical Rage (+2 crit range) + Blood Strength; Strike w/No Thought for +1 crit multiplier; Acrobat for attack speed & doublestrike bonuses.

[CrackedIce]

It is a melee tree with mainly dodge defenses and some burst PRR, no melee power. Secondly, the THF line needs STR altough with tomes that can now be mostly covered.

A halfling can raise the armor dodge bonus while adding uncostly sneak damage. If you got a solid Str tome bonus, that is the best thematic synergy.

There is otherwise just no AP free to spend in a racial tree since you would splurge in assassin. While
leveling, tier4 execute in assassin is really good.

Another option is to build against the weaknesses of a TA but why do that? That is bland generic playing. This class dies when hit, but just never let yourself be the target. There are lots of players that need to be able to charge into a room and swing away or blow stuff up, so aggro control is easy in a group.

I would consider Barbarian 2 / 18 Rogue a nice option to increase survivability since you can take all the low hanging fruit from barbarian I place of going high into assassin.

[unbongwah]

Looking at Horizon Walker and thinking about how to incorporate it into DEX-based melee builds like this one. It costs 11 APs to unlock No Step Missed (the DEX Battle Trance), +2 APs to max out its duration. Similar to Falconry's Deadly Instinct, it's based on charges, which are regained every time you make a vorpal hit. +1 AP for Greater Marking to increase Mark Target's debuff to -2 to Saving Throws, -10% Fortification , and -6 AC.

For a basic AP split:

• Acrobat: 41+ APs for capstone and tier-5s
• Horizon Walker: 12-14 APs for No Step Missed and Greater Marking (3rd core)
• Assassin: 11 APs for Melee Power Boost and Assassin's Trick (depending on whether it stacks with Mark Target)

So that's a minimum buy-in of 64 APs. 12 more APs into Assassin buys us another 2d6 sneak attack and Nimbleness (+5 MP). Maybe 4 APs into Vistani and Falconry (if you have them) for 2 more Favored Enemies (Undead and Animal) to stack with HW's Evil Outsider for +6 damage vs those FEs. Use Primal Avatar's Favored Enemy to add Aberrations or Constructs.

The downside is most of the first two tiers of Horizon Walker are basically filler for melee builds like item defense, +to-hit, etc.