Thief Acrobat Race?

[Aelonwy]

I'm preparing to TR my Thief Acrobat. I'm getting bored with her at cap... she's ERed 2 or maybe 3x now. I just can't stomach doing it again now that leveling in epics will be so torturous with no first time bonuses and most/all my wilderness zones played out as far as I'm willing.

I still want her to be a Thief Acrobat... but well I created her initially way back when MotU came on the scene, she's only on her third heroic life. (I alternate amongst my alts a lot) She's been a lot of fun... but she's a half orc. Hear me out... I created her as a half orc because it seemed to have the most benefit to a 2HF fighting style. But there just isn't much/any synergy for a rogue. Still been hella fun. However, the TA tree is all about Dex, so I thought I might try her as a dex based TA on a dex based race... only there doesn't seem to be any race that supports or synergizes well with a quarterstaff build.

Am I missing something obvious?

What race do you guys think is the best fit for a dex based TA?

[NemesisAlien]

[Alisonique]

Alternatively go Elf, nice racial ability. Also, not a half orc.

[unbongwah]

human: bonus feat and 8 APs gets you Damage Boost, +1 DEX, 1 rank of heal amp, and +20 Strikethrough (Great Weapon Aptitude)

elf: +2 base DEX, 7 APs gets you another +2 DEX and +6% Accuracy

halfling: +2 base DEX, 6-16 APs for extra DEX and sneak attack (Guile) depending on how many APs you can spare

Shadar-kai: did their Chain Attack ever get buffed? I like the idea of an Acrobat who also swings a mean chain (since the DC is based on DEX + Trip bonuses just like Sweeping Strikes); but every time I tried the results were disappointing.

[Aelonwy]

human: bonus feat and 8 APs gets you Damage Boost, +1 DEX, 1 rank of heal amp, and +20 Strikethrough (Great Weapon Aptitude)

elf: +2 base DEX, 7 APs gets you another +2 DEX and +6% Accuracy

halfling: +2 base DEX, 6-16 APs for extra DEX and sneak attack (Guile) depending on how many APs you can spare

Shadar-kai: did their Chain Attack ever get buffed? I like the idea of an Acrobat who also swings a mean chain (since the DC is based on DEX + Trip bonuses just like Sweeping Strikes); but every time I tried the results were disappointing.

Hmmm

Probably Human is my best choice. Its just so bland. But elf is meh, and I know from previous experience Shadar-kai (her life before this one) is uh... nothing polite... uhm its terrible, yeah terrible is the nicest thing I can say about Shadar-kai. So between halfling and human.

[Nugaot]

I wouldn't be so quick to write off Half-Orc, since you have to take the THF feat fine anyways you can save yourself a few build points for other stats. Shifter or Aasimar seem like very compelling choices too. Wildhunt in particular would have some synergy with Spot for trapping skills, and magic fang and maul attacks if you can afford them.

[Kmnh]

Aasimar. Healing hands is one of the best abilities in the game, you get the same healing amp that humans do and no other race can add vulnerability stacks to your Staff of Shadows like aasimar does.

[Propane]

Hello-

Below is part of a short write up I did on my guild site for a staff fighter-
It is a little dated, but I am sure you will get the idea-


I am mixing ideas from two very different builts...

Big F'n Stick Build
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php...ig+stick+build

Shuricannon
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...di-Shuricannon


I am looking at...

Drow DEX based - DEX bonus and improved ranged DPS with Shuriken
(extra throw % based on DEX - stacking)

13 Rogue
Improved Evasion
Defensive Roll
Full Spot/Search/OL/DD/Diplo/UMD with some Balance and Jump
Arcobat 5 (with upcoming improvements - will be better)
Sneak Attack
Qstaff speed with DEX to hit and DMG

6 Monk
Shadow Veil (25% miss chance)
Shuriken (extra throw % based on DEX - stacking)
Extra sneak attack
Tier 4 Monk Stances
Feats - allows for Cleave/Great Cleave with Full Two Handed Fighting

1 Fighter
Extra Feat...

Level 28 Lawful Good Drow
(1 Fighter / 6 Monk / 13 Rogue )

Starting
Abilities Base Stats
(30 Point) (Level 1)
Strength 15
Dexterity 18
Constitution 14
Intelligence 12
Wisdom 8
Charisma 10

Tomes Used
All +3 , kick in at 3,7,11

Level 1 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Diplomacy (+4)
Skill: Disable Device (+4)
Skill: Jump (+4)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Search (+4)
Skill: Spot (+4)
Skill: Tumble (+4)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Rogue
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack

Level 2 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)

Level 3 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Cleave

Level 4 (Monk)
Ability Raise: DEX
Skill: Concentration (+5)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Two Handed Fighting

Level 5 (Monk)
Skill: Concentration (+3)
Skill: Spot (+2)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Deflect Arrows

Level 6 (Monk)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+3)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Great Cleave
Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Harmonious Balance: Fists of Light

Level 7 (Rogue)
Skill: Search (+4)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)

Level 8 (Monk)
Ability Raise: DEX
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Jump (+2)

Level 9 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Spot (+2)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting

Level 10 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+3)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Dodge

Level 11 (Rogue)
Skill: Disable Device (+3)
Skill: Open Lock (+2)
Skill: Search (+4)
Skill: Spot (+1)

Level 12 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: DEX
Skill: Disable Device (+6)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons

Level 13 (Rogue)
Skill: Diplomacy (+3)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+2)
Skill: Search (+2)
Skill: Spot (+2)

Level 14 (Rogue)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+7)

Level 15 (Rogue)
Skill: Diplomacy (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Master of Forms

Level 16 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: DEX
Skill: Diplomacy (+5)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Improved Evasion

Level 17 (Fighter)
Skill: Jump (+4)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Two Handed Fighting

Level 18 (Rogue)
Skill: Disable Device (+2)
Skill: Open Lock (+2)
Skill: Search (+2)
Skill: Spot (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
Feat: (Selected) Grandmaster of Forms

Level 19 (Rogue)
Skill: Diplomacy (+5)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)

Level 20 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: DEX
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Defensive Roll

Level 21 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Overwhelming Critical

Level 22 (Epic)

Level 23 (Epic)

Level 24 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Improved Sneak Attack (quick draw / moblity / Toughness / etc..)

Level 25 (Epic)

Level 26 (Epic)
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Perfect Two Handed Fighting

[unbongwah]

Shadar-kai: did their Chain Attack ever get buffed?

Ha, my timing is perfect: SDK is getting buffed. But unfortunately the new chain attack will only work with a light melee weapon equipped in your main hand, which means no love for SDK Acrobats.

[Faltout]

Shadar-kai: did their Chain Attack ever get buffed? I like the idea of an Acrobat who also swings a mean chain (since the DC is based on DEX + Trip bonuses just like Sweeping Strikes); but every time I tried the results were disappointing.

I don't think there is a problem with the chain DC. I've never had enemies save for half-damage. Unless you are talking about the "Forceful chain"'s trip. which is "A small chance to trip enemies" (and that's all the info). I've seen enemies get tripped once in a blue moon but I regret getting that enhancement. If the chain's damage and perhaps speed were raised a bit, then it would definitely be in my attack rotation (now I only use it when I need to attack a bunch of monsters and get out. Otherwise, I prefer speed boost, uncanny dodge and regular attacks to clear large groups)

[Alrik_Fassbauer]

If I understand this correctly, then quarterstaffs require strength for damage.
However, you could still put / invest points into the Harper tree to get intelligence for that, and since the Harper tree seems to work quite nicely with the intelligence-based classes, I guess that it might work putting points into that.
This would be especially interesting if you'd play a Halfling.

Currently, I'm working on a Shifter quarterstaff user (core enhancements), but from a very different perspective : Investing points into Falconry to get Wisdom for the quarterstaff while the Shifter has a Cleric/Paladin combo (2 levels of Paladin + rest Cleric).
Of course I have to invest more points into Falconry, then.
But, there are "Favoured Weapons", too ... (Aureon).

If you plan to play a pure Thief Acrobat, then my guess is that it would make more sense to use the Harper tree than any other universal tree - because of the use of intelligence.

[magaiti]

HOrc racials are very-very good for any THF build. But if you really want a not-horc... Wood Elf.

7 AP into cores (+6% to-hit, 2 str/dex)
6 AP into keen senses/nothing is hidden (auto-search). Not the best filler, but at least it does something for a rogue. If you have enough spot...
1 Wild Step (a little buff that goes of when you tumble. You are an acrobat, after all)
1 Oath of the Wild +10 prr as long as you are not using metal armor or shield. You shouldn't.
1 Ferocity: +3 to damage while using Two-handed Weapons.

16 AP total

[Aelonwy]

HOrc racials are very-very good for any THF build. But if you really want a not-horc... Wood Elf.

7 AP into cores (+6% to-hit, 2 str/dex)
6 AP into keen senses/nothing is hidden (auto-search). Not the best filler, but at least it does something for a rogue. If you have enough spot...
1 Wild Step (a little buff that goes of when you tumble. You are an acrobat, after all)
1 Oath of the Wild +10 prr as long as you are not using metal armor or shield. You shouldn't.
1 Ferocity: +3 to damage while using Two-handed Weapons.

16 AP total

Hmm that's not bad... I must have missed noticing Ferocity when I was scouring through my options. I did jot down a note on Wild Step, after all tumbling through enemies is a big part of the unique fun of TA.

[unbongwah]

If I understand this correctly, then quarterstaffs require strength for damage.

Apart from the universal trees, Acrobat provides DEX to hit and damage to staves. [Or if you're playing monk then Ninja DEX to-hit and damage work.] You still need STR 17 for ITHF/GTHF feats.

[Lonnbeimnech]

I'm preparing to TR my Thief Acrobat. I'm getting bored with her at cap... she's ERed 2 or maybe 3x now. I just can't stomach doing it again now that leveling in epics will be so torturous with no first time bonuses and most/all my wilderness zones played out as far as I'm willing.

I still want her to be a Thief Acrobat... but well I created her initially way back when MotU came on the scene, she's only on her third heroic life. (I alternate amongst my alts a lot) She's been a lot of fun... but she's a half orc. Hear me out... I created her as a half orc because it seemed to have the most benefit to a 2HF fighting style. But there just isn't much/any synergy for a rogue. Still been hella fun. However, the TA tree is all about Dex, so I thought I might try her as a dex based TA on a dex based race... only there doesn't seem to be any race that supports or synergizes well with a quarterstaff build.

Am I missing something obvious?

What race do you guys think is the best fit for a dex based TA?

When in doubt, go Aasimar.

[Stoner81]

Would Halfling be worth a shout for this?

Stoner81.

[Aelonwy]

Would Halfling be worth a shout for this?

Stoner81.

I looked at halfling seriously but biggest issue I saw with halfling was the strength penalty makes getting the THF feat line a little problematic without a tome. It does have some extra sneak attack dmg in tree but otherwise not much else for combat with 2HF or quarterstaff. Might as well invest those points in Assassin for same or more extra sneak attack dmg unless you have most/all the racial AP which I do not.

I'm really leaning toward human or wood elf. More toward Wood Elf for flavor... I just don't want to play human if I can help it... Its the most bland, flavorless, generic choice available. And unfortunately during the early history of the game almost necessary for feat starved classes. I'm really glad that they've been giving some enhancement for feat options in some of the trees making it feasible to play other races in those situations.

And I considered Drow but really not much there for her that isn't in Wood elf with additional options. Although starting bonuses to ALL the preferred rogue stats is nice.

[unbongwah]

It's a question of opportunity costs namely how many APs you're willing spend in your racial tree vs other trees.

Enhancements (Spent: 80+0r +0u / Max: 80+0r +0u AP)


Thief-Acrobat (49 AP)
Staff Control, Stick Fighting, Tumbler, Kip Up, Cartwheel Charge, Followthrough
Acrobat Staff Training, Thief Acrobatics III, Fast Movement
Acrobat Staff Training, Quick Strike III, Haste Boost III
Acrobat Staff Training, Improved Glancing Blows III, Shadow Dodge III, Sweeping Strikes III
Acrobat Staff Training, Improved Defensive Roll III, No Mercy III, Staff Lunge I
Acrobat Staff Training, Staff Specialization, Spinning Staff Wall, Vault

Assassin (23 AP)
Knife in the Darkness, Dagger in the Back, Assassin's Trick, Nimbleness
Sneak Attack Training, Stealthy III
Venomed Blades III, Sneak Attack Training, Damage Boost III
Sneak Attack Training, Dexterity
Sneak Attack Training

Harper Agent (8 AP)
Agent of Good I
Harper Enchantment, Traveler's Toughness II
Know the Angles III

While you only need 41 APs in Acrobat for the capstone, you can easily spend more than that to grab everything I would want. Harper for Know the Angles. 23 APs into Assassin gets you +4d6 sneak attacks, Venomed Blades, Melee Power Boost, Assassin's Trick, and +5 Melee Power. Or alternatively, less Assassin to spend 11 APs into Vistani for +5% doublestrike and free Quick Draw.

If you've got a ton of bonus racial APs, this is less of an issue. But for us mere mortals, it's tough to balance APs on pure Acrobats IMO.

[Stoner81]

If staying pure Rogue then perhaps going full INT based would be easier since you can use the Harper tree for KtA and INT for to-hit and damage and you can take Insightful Reflexes to get your INT mod to your Reflex save. But I guess it depends on what tomes you have on the toon to plan your starting stats. If going this route then I would think Gnome would be good fit.

The other thought I had was to go 13 Rogue, 6 Monk and 1 Druid (was a very popular build IIRC). Rogue gets you knock down immunity(?) plus other goodies, Monk nets you the stances, free feats and other goodies. Druid gets you the level 1 Druid spell Shillelagh.

Stoner81.

[unbongwah]

OP mentioned going DEX-based to take advantage of DEX bonuses from Acrobat; also Sweeping Strikes DC is based on DEX and you need base DEX 21 for Improved Sneak Attack. Plus it saves a few APs by not going for Strategic Combat II in Harper; which doesn't sound like a lot, but like I said - APs are tight on pure Acrobats.

The last two Acrobat cores are pretty solid now: passively gain +2 to maximum dodge, +2 Strength and Dexterity, +20% Doublestrike while using staves, +1 to hit and +2 damage with quarterstaves, +5% attack speed with quarterstaves, +2 critical hit damage with all weapons, +2 Balance, Jump, and Tumble, +2 Sneak Attack dice and +2 to hit when performing Sneak Attacks. And gain some temp bonuses after Tumbling: +2 Morale bonus to Strength and Dexterity, +50% strikethrough chance and gain On Vorpal: Your target is knocked down for 12 seconds.

Maybe if you're already at or near the Doublestrike cap, the extra +20% DS is overkill; but an extra +5% attack speed on top of the +15% from Acrobatics is always welcome. I mean Cetus's latest fighter build is based on VKF capstone's +5% attack speed being universal now, as well as Doublestrike and Melee Power bonuses in VKF; though granted this works in part because he can hit 99% Doublestrike without Kensei capstone.

I think the main incentive to monk 6 is Shadow Veil; 25% Incorporealty doesn't have many sources. But the tradeoff is switching from light armor to robes so lower MRR cap. Plus you're still AP-constrained. Decisions, decisions...