When will we get Con to Hit?

[Cranjis]

So it's been quite a long while that we have had dwarves .
And it's been quite a long while we have had Throw Your Weight Around, which gives Con to Damage for those of you that did not know.
I have been wondering...will we, and if so, when will we ever get Con to Hit in that enhancement?

[Warlawk]

Seconding this request! We have every other stat available for this, it would be a cool niche for Dwarves to fill.

[thunir]

Other than an XP boost I would settle for AP, Destiny, Reaper Respec for free or at least reduced cost. When I'm trying new builds it gets expensive. I can even see why it costs plat? This is a basic function of the game.

[Hawkwier]

/Signed

Seems pretty incongruous not to these days, given all the other attack/damage ability options.

[Zezahk]

Dwarven con to hit and con to dmg for handwraps sounds as dwarfish as can be.

[Torkzed]

I think this is a bad idea for game balance and build diversity.

Virtually every build in the game--caster, melee, ranged--focuses on one main stat to start with...and then pumps Constitution as high as possible for defensive purposes. Hit points are the foremost pillar in defense. But what about AC, PRR, dodge, concealment, saves, etc, you say? Yes, they are all important to some extent...but *every* build is more survivable with more hit points.

Adding Constitution-to-Hit would enable builds for which only a single stat carried any significance. And yes, I know this is a bit of an oversimplification (trances, UMD, intim, etc), but essentially it is true.

There would be relatively few reasons for a melee dps or tank to choose any other race if this was added.

Not having Con-to-hit forces the TYWA build to plan carefully to mitigate the to-hit issues. It should stay that way, imo.

If they did give Dwarf Con-to-Hit, maybe they also need to give Half-Orc a "Str-to-Hit-Point-Bonus" option? Or Aasimar a "Wis-to-Hit-Point-Bonus" option? (not serious...or am I?)

[Alrik_Fassbauer]

CON ? Hm, with ... rolling around ... ? ... Like a boulder ... ?

[nobodynobody1426]

Well now that they have WIS / INT / CHA to hit and damage, they should definitely add STR / CON / DEX to spell casting, gotta be fair right.

[Chai]

I think this is a bad idea for game balance and build diversity.

Virtually every build in the game--caster, melee, ranged--focuses on one main stat to start with...and then pumps Constitution as high as possible for defensive purposes. Hit points are the foremost pillar in defense. But what about AC, PRR, dodge, concealment, saves, etc, you say? Yes, they are all important to some extent...but *every* build is more survivable with more hit points.

Adding Constitution-to-Hit would enable builds for which only a single stat carried any significance. And yes, I know this is a bit of an oversimplification (trances, UMD, intim, etc), but essentially it is true.

There would be relatively few reasons for a melee dps or tank to choose any other race if this was added.

Not having Con-to-hit forces the TYWA build to plan carefully to mitigate the to-hit issues. It should stay that way, imo.

If they did give Dwarf Con-to-Hit, maybe they also need to give Half-Orc a "Str-to-Hit-Point-Bonus" option? Or Aasimar a "Wis-to-Hit-Point-Bonus" option? (not serious...or am I?)

Ship sailed already when they allowed consolidation of every other stat. Con tethered to HP is the last bastion some are holding out on in the name of balance, something which does not exist.

[Torkzed]

Ship sailed already when they allowed consolidation of every other stat. Con tethered to HP is the last bastion some are holding out on in the name of balance, something which does not exist.

Apparently you missed the point of my post...or more likely, just choose to ignore it.

There is a difference between Con and other stats. This is obvious by looking at the *thousands* of build posts that include a sentence similar to "Max out <insert main stat here> first and then Constitution. Use leftover points to suit personal taste."

Game balance is not an black and white thing...just because it is bad in many places does not mean that breaking it even worse is irrelevant.

[Tsutti]

will we, and if so, when will we ever get Con to Hit in that enhancement?

My guess is never because con is the single strongest stat you could have as a primary dps stat. Sadly, Throw Your Weight Around is a bit meh without to-hit because you'll have trouble hitting things, but think about how strong it would be to be able to invest 100% in con and dump every single other stat if you wanted to (granted, the most uber of uber players would probably still get 80+ dex and wisdom for saves lol).

Of course I think it would be fun to have this available, but I also think it would be a questionable design decision to make it possible for you to use the same stat for hitting things, damage modifier, hp, and fort save, as well as various other things depending on your class (e.g. warlock Enlightened Spirit temp hp from aura, barbarian rage duration but you'll often end this prematurely anyway to get blood feast temp hp). Basically the only things you can't do with it at that point are use it for will/reflex and for dcs of most tactical attacks and spells, but you can even use it for Dire Charge still! Not giving to-hit really checks its power because you need to hit things to even do half decent damage, and unfortunately the game is in a state at the moment where everything has a high enough AC that this also makes the ability weaker than its worth (seems like it otherwise would be a good niche build for certain content or something, most content just has too much AC though).


I should note I'm primarily concerned with cap here, if you are not then maybe you don't really care about these points but since your not caring about them doesn't make them go away, and an extremely significant number of people are dedicated to cap play, these points are still reasons to-hit likely won't ever be added for con. I am not certain whether it currently works in epic leveling, I don't know if a lot of the older packs that are often run have up to date AC or if they were really high AC for their time or if they are actually reasonably hittable with just whatever strength score you can scrap together. Heroic you probably could get away with Throw Your Weight Around and still hit things especially if you have a high str tome and maybe some past lives (well, a lot of past lives so you have comp and racial comp for +5 str), maybe even without sometimes depending on your gear.

[Tsutti]

Seconding this request! We have every other stat available for this, it would be a cool niche for Dwarves to fill.

The problem is it wouldn't be even remotely niche, dwarf would become mandatory for most melees because of how important hp is. The reason we have every other stat available for this just not con is because hp scales with it.

[Aelonwy]

Personally, I feel like Con to Damage is a trap. Yes you still need str to hit, but what about tactics? There's nothing in the dwarven tree giving con for tactics. What's even more unnecessary is you only get con to dmg with select dwarven weapons, why not all of them? Wood elf doesn't have to choose a subset of weapons for their Dex to dmg. Dwarves are a typically martial race but somehow they only know how to use a handful of weapons in the dwarven tradition (using con presumably.) Its 11 weapons total, 5 if axes are chosen, 6 if hammer + picks but gnomes get 7 in their weapon line and aren't even a particularly martial race.

If you choose Axes to wield the Iconic Dwarven weapon you are really going to feel lame against skeletons or anything that requires bludgeoning because you'll be missing those to hit/dmg bonuses of the specialized weapon lines and your con dmg bonus. Its just lame.

It all feels like a trap, the trap of the old poorly balanced, f2p racial tree.

Just feels like Dwarves won't really shine until there is either a P2P racial variant, or P2P Iconic Dwarf.

[unbongwah]

Despite - or maybe because of - having an entire thread devoted to TYWA builds, the only one which makes any sense to me is barbarian, since the Ravager and Occult Slayer capstones are both based on CON; there's a decent amount of CON buffs in the barb trees + Rage; and greataxe is a reasonable choice for a THF barb, particularly with either Critical Rage or Occult Metalline as your crit bonus. Although I hear pure barb has fallen out of favor with the cool kids now?

[magaiti]

It just occured to me that TYWA allows for an Eldritch Knight build, for those people who doesn't have Harper or Feydark.
EK trees have int/cha to hit, but no to-damage options.