The Next Heroic Adventure Pack to be made Epic?

[axel15810]

The 2 I want to see by far the most is Sorrowdusk and Reaver's Reach. If Reaver's Reach, give us legendary dragontouched armor and maybe rework Stealer of Souls into the raid it always should have been if possible?

[Annex]

Thank you to everyone who has responded so far. Your input will help the developers choose a Quest Pack for Epic treatment that appeals to a broad base of players.

If you have not voted, please consider doing so. It seems extremely likely that, over the next few years, three or four Quest Packs could receive an Epic upgrade. Severlin recently stated that he enjoys breathing new life into old content. Even if the developers do not pick your personal favorite this time, they may pick a Quest Pack you enjoy, or get to your personal favorite next time.

A number of you have raised interesting questions related to this process. After a reasonable period of time I will gather up those questions, put them in a nice format, and make sure to submit them during the next Live Stream with Severlin.

.....

Aelonwy, I suggest we keep this going through at least one more weekend. I would like as many people as possible to see this thread and offer input. When voting tapers off, I will collate the results in a few different ways and then we can begin the next phase of this project.

[Aelonwy]

Aelonwy, I suggest we keep this going through at least one more weekend. I would like as many people as possible to see this thread and offer input. When voting tapers off, I will collate the results in a few different ways and then we can begin the next phase of this project.

NP. This being Mother's day weekend, I'm probably going to be too busy to do much but read comments while I have my morning coffee anyway.

[Stormraiser]

Why yes I do, that's why I listed it



I think the Lyn has been doing a swell enough job at updating older loot.

Ratcatcher and all of the old 18-20 bows would disagree with you. The weapon you mentioned is special because it had a special crit profile...Guess what will happen?

[Artos_Fabril]

For a "basic Upgrade" like Catacombs or Delera's:

1) Sorrowdusk
2) Therenal
3) Shavarath

Just upgrade some mobs and some loot, maybe expand the explorer areas a bit, Legendary Shavarath would make a nice extension on Legendary Shroud.


But let's get a little crazier:

Path of Inspiriation/Dreaming Dark -- Revamp Heroic and update the loot, then expand the story with a bridging quest quest chain at about level 22 or 23 that introduces the Kalashtar and sets the stage for the next expansion to open up the continent of Sarlona and add Kalashtar as a playable race.


Here's a pair of harder questions for any new or epified quest pack:
-What loot gaps are there at 29/30 that can be filled without worsening the power creep by increasing stats further?
-What levels (between 21 and 29) need additional content that's more compelling than just running slayers to power through those levels?

[KoobTheProud]

I don't really think any of those is worth the investment of time to epificate.

The thing that would be good to work on is the horrible straddle from 18 to 22 or so that is caused by non-epic characters being barred from epic quests and zones. Maybe create a 4 level exemption that allows characters to enter epic quests at level 18 and 19 as long as the base level of the epic quest is not higher than +4 over the character level?

The other part of the straddle is the way that mob powers and hitpoints evolve from 18 and 19 heroic to 20 and 21 epic.

I think the problem is that once a character is eligible to enter a quest at elite difficulty level (now epic due to difficulty raise) they are way overpowered for the zone by ED's and then the XP is just ridiculously bad for the quests designs - which tend to stretch out the runs a lot.

So the solution is to let 18 and 19 into those quests on elite (now epic) where the XP and challenge make the quest worth running instead of just a dreary long march over last era content that neither excites nor satisfies.

[hit_fido]

So the solution is to let 18 and 19 into those quests on elite (now epic) where the XP and challenge make the quest worth running instead of just a dreary long march over last era content that neither excites nor satisfies.

This will open the door to people figuring out how to squeeze relatively much higher xp reqards from certain epic quests (and/or challenges) and use that to power level from 18 up to 20 for even faster heroic/racial reincarnations. Some players will gladly step through that door, other players will raise issue on the forums, and SSG will solve the perceived problem in a way that makes the game better for no one.

It's also not necessary. You can already hit level 20 without running a single quest in the 17, 18, and 19 range. So it's not as if players in heroic levels somehow really need more xp that they can only get by letting them run epic quests.

[Chai]

This will open the door to people figuring out how to squeeze relatively much higher xp reqards from certain epic quests (and/or challenges) and use that to power level from 18 up to 20 for even faster heroic/racial reincarnations. Some players will gladly step through that door, other players will raise issue on the forums, and SSG will solve the perceived problem in a way that makes the game better for no one.

It's also not necessary. You can already hit level 20 without running a single quest in the 17, 18, and 19 range. So it's not as if players in heroic levels somehow really need more xp that they can only get by letting them run epic quests.

Those who would take to the forums to complain about that particular issue simply have no logical claim. They are negatively visceral about how OTHERS who are not in their guilds, groups, or same instances, spend their time in DDO. I mean come on, for the time this existed, were players really entering a vale quest or a revers refuge quest getting all rug doctor steaming mad about a possibility that some other player they dont even know exist and have zero current interaction with might be plowing a low level epic quest for alot of XP? This is their DDO experience? Complaining on the forums that someone violated some imaginary/arbitrary line which disallows level 19s to play with level 20s in level 20 content?

We all know why the imaginary arbitrary line is there. Any other explanation given fools exactly zero people at this point.

[Jerevth]

1) Tangleroot Gorge
2) Attack on Stormreach
3) Sorrowdusk
4) Ruins of Threnal
5) Necro 1/2 (Least interested; personal choice. I just don't like these.)

[KoobTheProud]

This will open the door to people figuring out how to squeeze relatively much higher xp reqards from certain epic quests (and/or challenges) and use that to power level from 18 up to 20 for even faster heroic/racial reincarnations. Some players will gladly step through that door, other players will raise issue on the forums, and SSG will solve the perceived problem in a way that makes the game better for no one.

It's also not necessary. You can already hit level 20 without running a single quest in the 17, 18, and 19 range. So it's not as if players in heroic levels somehow really need more xp that they can only get by letting them run epic quests.

18 to 20 is a couple of hours process as it is. I don't think fixing the straddle would change much in that regard. What it would do is to allow 18 and 19 players to run the Devils chain as part of the process, experiencing the game in typical 2 level under level fashion as they do with everything before the level 19 quests now.

There is a reason that people hold at 18, rarely do any level 19 or 20 quests in the process of going to 20 and then take 20 and start doing epic level quests again at 2 levels under. That reason is largely related to not being able to enter level 19 and 20 quests at 21+ (elite or reaper for a level 19 and hard for a level 20). Fixing this basic straddle problem makes sense because it is an invisible speed bump that greatly effects the way people play the game and for no good reason.

Your suggestion that people will somehow game this to level faster is hard to fathom on the merits. What people will do is play the Devils series on elite and reaper at level 19 instead of holding 18 and then skipping them at 20 due to the *very* low XP involved at level 20 and the lack of difficulty due to ED's kicking in.

The gap may have had some important function earlier in game development but that function has been completely removed due to power creep and the expansion of content that now allows players to ignore the content in question entirely. When I open the LFM on my server i never see the Devils series being advertised by anybody. Why? Because it doesn't offer content that players in the level range want to run given the trip up aspect of who can play it at hard or elite or reaper at level.

[salmag]

I would like to see "Return to..." instead of "Epic (Legendary)..."

Just making these quests Epic is a step in the wrong direction.

Continue the story.

1. Return to Threnal - Coyle is dead. Giant attack is halted. Something else is in the tunnels now. 7 quests -Revisit East, West, and South Once, incorporate the 3 mini side quests, add a new quest that takes place at the altar and opens a portal - no escort or protect - Basthuul returns with different allies (enemies) in each quest.

2. Return to Restless Isles (including HIPS) - 5 quests - The Aurum seeks revenge after you stopped their operation. Also, after liberating the Wildmen and the Ogres, new threats inhabit the new regimes - maybe a Lich controlling the corpses of all the Ogres you killed. Use the raid maps but change the story and make them 6 person quests instead.

3. Return to WW/Steam Tunnels - 4 quests (1 in WW, 3 in Steam Tunnels) After the Invaders quest, the Kobolds return to WW only to find Trogs, an Otuygh, and undead there. Some Abishai remain after the returning from the Chronoscope and inhabit the Steam Tunnels. Go further through STK, Umberhulks have been nesting, Undead in the hobgoblin village.

4. Return to Sorrowdusk Isle - 7 quests (1 in Iron Mines, 1 in Grey Moon's Den, 1 in Temple Outpost, then expand the outer cave side entrances) - The CO6 is back with a vengeance. Bruku needs help again to rid the island of different demons, and some undead Trolls. End story in the Wight Lair (expanded, of course).

5. Return to Tangleroot - 6 quests - expand the small outer entrances into more cohesive stories culminating in a return to Chief Ungurz.

I would be against just making the same quests epic (which is what SSG most likely would do). Add to the story...

[gravisrs]

Pack that aren't yet Epic-ed will be Legendary-ed. That's pretty obvious, isn't it ? Level cap gonna increse this year over 30, we will need some content to run.

But could be also that there will be 3 tabs for some content (GH for sure), Heroic, Epic, Legendary.

[Oxarhamar]

I would like to see "Return to..." instead of "Epic (Legendary)..."

Just making these quests Epic is a step in the wrong direction.

Continue the story.

1. Return to Threnal - Coyle is dead. Giant attack is halted. Something else is in the tunnels now. 7 quests -Revisit East, West, and South Once, incorporate the 3 mini side quests, add a new quest that takes place at the altar and opens a portal - no escort or protect - Basthuul returns with different allies (enemies) in each quest.

2. Return to Restless Isles (including HIPS) - 5 quests - The Aurum seeks revenge after you stopped their operation. Also, after liberating the Wildmen and the Ogres, new threats inhabit the new regimes - maybe a Lich controlling the corpses of all the Ogres you killed. Use the raid maps but change the story and make them 6 person quests instead.

3. Return to WW/Steam Tunnels - 4 quests (1 in WW, 3 in Steam Tunnels) After the Invaders quest, the Kobolds return to WW only to find Trogs, an Otuygh, and undead there. Some Abishai remain after the returning from the Chronoscope and inhabit the Steam Tunnels. Go further through STK, Umberhulks have been nesting, Undead in the hobgoblin village.

4. Return to Sorrowdusk Isle - 7 quests (1 in Iron Mines, 1 in Grey Moon's Den, 1 in Temple Outpost, then expand the outer cave side entrances) - The CO6 is back with a vengeance. Bruku needs help again to rid the island of different demons, and some undead Trolls. End story in the Wight Lair (expanded, of course).

5. Return to Tangleroot - 6 quests - expand the small outer entrances into more cohesive stories culminating in a return to Chief Ungurz.

I would be against just making the same quests epic (which is what SSG most likely would do). Add to the story...

Yes reuse the map change the quests

[FengXian]

Maybe this is just me (or a minority), but I would like to actually face epic/legendary challenges at cap as opposed to conversions of lower level monsters.

I don't wanna fight CR80 rats or even "Vaunt Security" when I'm lv 30, cmon!

I loved it when endgame was ToD because it actually felt like endgame. In fact Shroud, Abbot, ToD, VoD, LoB and CitW were pretty epic endgame challenges that felt like endgame. PN and DD not so much imho.

I think it would be nice to have some more Epic Fantasy content at endgame, although I understand that with the cap being pushed further and further it's hard to properly escalate our adversaries, after Lolth for example.

Or is it? There are actually plenty of big baddies we haven't touched upon yet. Weren't we supposed to get Tiamat as some point btw? Oh well.

All of this to say I'd like ToD to get Legendary'd next. In a way similar to Reaver/Abbot: a brand new raid in the same location, and at the same time a revamp of old items hopefully.

Next would be ADQ. VoN is still getting run pretty consistently.

P.S.: I will add that it seems they're introducing a new (old) big bad with the last adventure pack we got. Might be a step in the right direction.

[Oxarhamar]

Maybe this is just me (or a minority), but I would like to actually face epic/legendary challenges at cap as opposed to conversions of lower level monsters.

I don't wanna fight CR80 rats or even "Vaunt Security" when I'm lv 30, cmon!

I loved it when endgame was ToD because it actually felt like endgame. In fact Shroud, Abbot, ToD, VoD, LoB and CitW were pretty epic endgame challenges that felt like endgame. PN and DD not so much imho.

I think it would be nice to have some more Epic Fantasy content at endgame, although I understand that with the cap being pushed further and further it's hard to properly escalate our adversaries, after Lolth for example.

Or is it? There are actually plenty of big baddies we haven't touched upon yet. Weren't we supposed to get Tiamat as some point btw? Oh well.

All of this to say I'd like ToD to get Legendary'd next. In a way similar to Reaver/Abbot: a brand new raid in the same location, and at the same time a revamp of old items hopefully.

Next would be ADQ. VoN is still getting run pretty consistently.

P.S.: I will add that it seems they're introducing a new (old) big bad with the last adventure pack we got. Might be a step in the right direction.

Yes Tiamat / Tyranny of Dragons was teased after Deathwyrm.

Please if we do get Tiamat in the future give us a Dragon fight not standing on a platform fighting body parts like Lolth

[darkniteyogi]

(not in the list)
Epic Korthos - everyone wants it
Epic Waterworks or other classic F2P chains

Devils of Shavarath - It should be end game again
Reaver's Reach - Update Dragontouched to be useful again, both heroic and Epic.
Restless Isles - Same. Make it runnable with teleporters.
Sorrowdusk - Hopefully they can fix it to make it runnable and in desperate need of teleporters. But the graphics and quests are pretty outdated it might be unsalvageable.
Harbinger of Madness - Fun quests
Sharn Syndicate - Fun short quests for mid epic leveling
Reign of Madness - Moderately fun.
TangleRoot - Update gear. Tedious and repetitive but moderately fun.
Necropolis 2 - Quests grow on you except swimming quest which they need to redo.
Ruins of Threnal - Tedious chain. Only run for Ratcatcher and XP.
Path of Inspiration - can't epic this without Dreaming Dark
Dreaming Dark - can't epic this without Path of Inspiration
Attack on Stormreach - One of the most tedious adventure packs to run. I always feel like taking a break from DDO when its time to run this chain.
Necropolis 3 - Doesn't need explanation

[Weemadarthur]

I would like to see Threnal made epic but not just a straight conversion. I would prefer if they did some thing more along the lines of how WW converts to Invaders or the Baudry quests become HIPS. Use the same overall map with new mobs, different routes and a new story. I love the familiar feel to invaders and HIPS without the feel of just rerunning the same quest.

P.S. sorry for not using the formula of 1-5 but this is the only one I want to see done and then only done in a certain way.

[hit_fido]

18 to 20 is a couple of hours process as it is. I don't think fixing the straddle would change much in that regard. What it would do is to allow 18 and 19 players to run the Devils chain as part of the process, experiencing the game in typical 2 level under level fashion as they do with everything before the level 19 quests now.

Level 18 and 19 characters can already run the Shavarath quests.

There is a reason that people hold at 18, rarely do any level 19 or 20 quests in the process of going to 20 and then take 20 and start doing epic level quests again at 2 levels under. That reason is largely related to not being able to enter level 19 and 20 quests at 21+ (elite or reaper for a level 19 and hard for a level 20). Fixing this basic straddle problem makes sense because it is an invisible speed bump that greatly effects the way people play the game and for no good reason.

Any character at any epic level can already enter any heroic quest on casual through elite. Heroic reaper is locked out for epic characters. Those high level heroic quests are trivialized when you reach character level 20 with epic destinies, which is probably why SSG decided to at least lock out running heroic reaper mode by epic level characters. But you can still always go in and run them on elite anyway. I'm level 30 atm and stepped into Genesis Point on elite and casual just to be sure.

Your suggestion that people will somehow game this to level faster is hard to fathom on the merits. What people will do is play the Devils series on elite and reaper at level 19 instead of holding 18 and then skipping them at 20 due to the *very* low XP involved at level 20 and the lack of difficulty due to ED's kicking in.

Players can already play those quests on elite/reaper at level 19. What am I missing? They can't play a level 19 quest on reaper difficulty once they take 20. They can still play it on elite.

All of that doesn't seem related to what I responded to, which is a suggestion that heroic level characters be able to enter Epic quests. We've already experienced a similar situation some time back with challenges where players figured out they could run low level characters through certain epic level challenges and gain relatively massive xp. Turbine eventually changed that. Now personally I don't really care about what players did or would do. But the pattern was one of players figuring out how to maximize efficiency, other players raising issue and Turbine stepping in and changing the systems. I'm saying it's likely that would play out again in a similar way if you let heroic level characters into epic level quests where the xp rewards are tuned higher than heroics. Some smart, adept player is going to figure out a way to leverage that into massive, fast gains and word will spread and it will follow the same course.

[Annex]

1) Seal of Shan-to-Kor
2) Tangleroot Gorge
3) Necropolis I
4) Sorrowdusk Island
5) Ruins of Threnel

.....

I would very much like to see an Epic Waterworks but when I floated that idea a couple months back there was no support for it. I am not sure Severlin will even entertain the idea.

I left all high level Quest Packs off my list, letting them lie fallow for Legendary upgrades when those levels arrive.

.....

If you have not yet voted, please consider offering your list and thoughts. Asking the developers to put all their time into new Quest Packs remains a viable vote.

I will collate votes and make a question list for the next live stream with Severlin sometime after the weekend.

[KoobTheProud]

Players can already play those quests on elite/reaper at level 19. What am I missing? They can't play a level 19 quest on reaper difficulty once they take 20. They can still play it on elite.

Level 18 and 19 characters cannot enter Epic quests and when you play a level 19 Heroic quest it becomes Epic when you set the difficulty to Hard or higher.

Just tested: did something change? I was able to get into Bastion of Power Elite at level 16.