Make a 10% XP Penalty Per Hireling

[savingsoul]

Edit:
I agree with this . . .

A *much* better way to incentivize group play--if that is the goal--is to make buddy bonus xp an "all the time" thing.

Original Post:

Make a 10% XP Penalty Per Hireling

This one is obvious.

DDO needs people to play with others.

This would help to nudge players in the right direction.

Also, keep hirelings stupid. Don't bother to improve them or make them customizable. Focus on other, more important things.

Lastly, establish DDO etiquette to dismiss hirelings, eg. healers and rogues, when their role is filled by a real player in the party. For example, it is rude to keep a healer hireling summoned when you have a real healer in the party.

The strange thing is I saw an lfm about a week or so ago saying that there *was* a penalty for hirelings. I have tested it though with a single hireling and there was no indication of a penalty in the progress panel after summoning a hireling.

[rabidfox]

Give a 10% bonus XP per hireling or player in the party. Let the XP roll in while people play the game however they enjoy it.

Lastly, establish DDO etiquette to dismiss hirelings, eg. healers and rogues, when their role is filled by a real player in the party. For example, it is rude to keep a healer hireling summoned when you have a real healer in the party.

Doesn't bother me and I run healers every life. Some players need the training wheels while getting used to a build or don't have the gear to not have those pocket heals nearby, which is no big deal.

[savingsoul]

Give a 10% bonus XP per hireling or player in the party. Let the XP roll in while people play the game however they enjoy it.



Doesn't bother me and I run healers every life. Some players need the training wheels while getting used to a build or don't have the gear to not have those pocket heals nearby, which is no big deal.

That's sweet of you to have a positive attitude.
However, when do you get to actually play a healer?
Maybe when *there aren't hirelings doing all the healing*?
Also, why would they need pocket heals if *you are the healer*?
I mean, it's nice to have a positive attitude and all, but why are you playing a healer then--if you actually are?

[rabidfox]

However, when do you get to actually play a healer?

I toss heals left and right while leveling. And I rock them at cap in r10s and raids. So I play a healer from 1 to 30; I just don't play a heal bot that does nothing but press heals, there's DC kills, direct damage, CC, all sorts of stuff I do beyond the heals.

Maybe when *there aren't hirelings doing all the healing*?
Also, why would they need pocket heals if *you are the healer*?
I mean, it's nice to have a positive attitude and all, but why are you playing a healer then--if you actually are?

I do damage too; quite good at doing both killing mobs and tossing heals around. Odds are also good that someone who feels a need for a pocket hireling healer is someone I can out damage (not always but often), so I can redirect my output towards more DPS vs heals. Parties also split up and hit different objectives. There's lot of reasons a new player might feel a desire for the safety net of their own healer NPC, and it no way reflects my ability to heal or perform in quests.

[Torkzed]

Bad idea.

It would be absolutely foolish to punish solo players. There are many people who have legitimate reasons for wanting (or needing) to play alone. The game should support these folks too. Access to hirelings allows these players to play a greater diversity of builds.

That said, I personally prefer to group with others (usually guildies, but pugs are good too).

A *much* better way to incentivize group play--if that is the goal--is to make buddy bonus xp an "all the time" thing.

[savingsoul]

Bad idea.

It would be absolutely foolish to punish solo players. There are many people who have legitimate reasons for wanting (or needing) to play alone. The game should support these folks too. Access to hirelings allows these players to play a greater diversity of builds.

That said, I personally prefer to group with others (usually guildies, but pugs are good too).

A *much* better way to incentivize group play--if that is the goal--is to make buddy bonus xp an "all the time" thing.

I think that making the buddy bonus an all-the-time thing is a great idea.

It would have the same effect in a full party if hirelings do not count toward the buddy bonus, but it would put it in a positive light rather than a negative one.

[savingsoul]

I toss heals left and right while leveling. And I rock them at cap in r10s and raids. So I play a healer from 1 to 30; I just don't play a heal bot that does nothing but press heals, there's DC kills, direct damage, CC, all sorts of stuff I do beyond the heals.


I do damage too; quite good at doing both killing mobs and tossing heals around. Odds are also good that someone who feels a need for a pocket hireling healer is someone I can out damage (not always but often), so I can redirect my output towards more DPS vs heals. Parties also split up and hit different objectives. There's lot of reasons a new player might feel a desire for the safety net of their own healer NPC, and it no way reflects my ability to heal or perform in quests.

So you are not primarily a healer in those situations. Glad we can agree on that.

Parties also split up and hit different objectives.

Sometimes a quest or raid needs *more than one real healer*.

Sometimes a healer needs to do nothing but press heals.

[Josielynn]

I agree with Torkzed that it's a bad idea to assign a penalty. While I sometimes cuss out my "zoo" for the stupid things they do, I enjoy being able to solo, and the Owlbear is fun to watch! I like to be able to go at my own speed, do the optional(s) if I want, and would probably annoy pugs for being too slow. That said, if I do end up grouping with people, I always give them priority over hirelings, and ask their opinion about which one they want if we decide to keep one. It's called communication!

Also, I doubt the developers would agree, or they wouldn't be putting hirelings in the expansion packs just to turn around and penalize us for it.

[Arkat]

Make a 10% XP Penalty Per Hireling

If I could choose what gear my hirelings could wear and if their AI was a lot better, I'd consider it.

[rabidfox]

So you are not primarily a healer in those situations. Glad we can agree on that.

hahaha

Sometimes a quest or raid needs *more than one real healer*.

Outside of mid/high skulls or a few specific boss fights, most quests don't even need someone healer spec'd, let alone more than 1 healer; they just need someone who can toss out the occasional top up. And raids can't even use hirelings, so it's gonna be multiple humans in there for handling heals.

Sometimes a healer needs to do nothing but press heals.

Well, that eliminates any hireling being counted as a healer as they do all sorts of stuff beside spam heals. Do you run heals and feel threatened by the bots taking over your job? Does it bother you when healers toss out damage between heals? I spam non-stop heals when a fight/quest/raid calls for it; but your posts make me curious what you think a healer is in DDO.

[Valerianus]

ddo is not a trinity game, and we like it like this. so the "healer" role is not needed all the time, only in certain situations, content\diff\party dependant. like tank.

i raged when they introduced buddy bonus as vip only, so i totally agree that the most obvious way to incentivize grouping is a small buddy bonus always on for everyone.

it's a miracle this game survived, turbine did an awful (i'll say awful, the words i have in mind to properly describe it would end up in the post deleted + actions against me) job on everything grouping related, ssg fixed some but there's room to improve.

[savingsoul]

hahaha


Outside of mid/high skulls or a few specific boss fights, most quests don't even need someone healer spec'd, let alone more than 1 healer; they just need someone who can toss out the occasional top up. And raids can't even use hirelings, so it's gonna be multiple humans in there for handling heals.


Well, that eliminates any hireling being counted as a healer as they do all sorts of stuff beside spam heals. Do you run heals and feel threatened by the bots taking over your job? Does it bother you when healers toss out damage between heals? I spam non-stop heals when a fight/quest/raid calls for it; but your posts make me curious what you think a healer is in DDO.

You can see from my build proposals that I do not have a problem with other capabilities, but focus is focus, and I respect dedicated healers--even healbots. FWIW, my gimpy Michael Maier build just led the kill count in epic cabal in a party with a bombardier alchemist and a barbarian. I don't think that is what defines a healer though.

I think they should have a stat for total hp's healed and enemies cc'd--to encourage some appreciation beyond kills.

[Tsutti]

Make a 10% XP Penalty Per Hireling

This one is obvious.

DDO needs people to play with others.

This would help to nudge players in the right direction.

Also, keep hirelings stupid. Don't bother to improve them or make them customizable. Focus on other, more important things.

Lastly, establish DDO etiquette to dismiss hirelings, eg. healers and rogues, when their role is filled by a real player in the party. For example, it is rude to keep a healer hireling summoned when you have a real healer in the party.

The strange thing is I saw an lfm about a week or so ago saying that there *was* a penalty for hirelings. I have tested it though with a single hireling and there was no indication of a penalty in the progress panel after summoning a hireling.

"This one is obvious." Yes, obviously something we should not do. There are often times where no one will join your lfm, even though you have it up, because you're playing in a time that's not busy; you can't solo, so you use a hireling. What are you supposed to do, just take the L on xp? What if you're playing with some friends, and so you are actually playing with people, but you guys need a hire for heals? Lower xp?

I don't think there is any way for the devs to necessarily establish this sort of etiquette, but I would be ALL for allowing the party leader to dismiss other people's hirelings. Really sucks when the party fills up to 5 ppl plus one hire that someone summoned and either you have to tell them to dismiss it (awkward) or sometimes they just refuse to dismiss it despite you telling them to do so (rare, but really people?). Also slightly annoying that you can't dismiss them if they're too far away, but usually not a big inconvenience unless you left them dead somewhere and didn't think to dismiss them at the time (can't teleport them to you when dead, so if you want to dismiss must go all the way back to them).

[savingsoul]

"This one is obvious." Yes, obviously something we should not do. There are often times where no one will join your lfm, even though you have it up, because you're playing in a time that's not busy; you can't solo, so you use a hireling. What are you supposed to do, just take the L on xp? What if you're playing with some friends, and so you are actually playing with people, but you guys need a hire for heals? Lower xp?

Torkzed's idea of an all-the-time buddy bonus is a better solution.

[Enoach]

Not a good idea. The way people look at it already is - If I don't get a bonus it is therefor a penalty. This would only create more complaints.

I'm all for mechanics like the 'Buddy bonus' for having non-NPCs in the group. I'm not for mechanics that penalize players.

As for etiquette that is not up to the game to implement, that is 100% on the players themselves. Sure it seems silly to fill a role with a hireling when a player is there to fill the role (notice I used is there to fill the role, not could fill the role). But IMHO the only etiquette needed here is asking PL if you can summon one, and dismissing when the PL asks. Keeping in mind they are likely still trying to get other non-NPCs in the group and every time you summon in the last party spot you bring the LFM down, require people to send tells to join etc.

Otherwise, it is up to the PL in that area of should or should not have a hireling in a group at any given point of time during the quest they are leading.

[FranOhmsford]

So the OP wants the Devs to punish players who aren't able to group up for whatever reason?

- Players who are Anti-Social shouldn't be able to earn as much XP as Social players?
- Players who play on Wayfinder should have to pay 2,500 tp per toon to transfer to a server with enough players on to make grouping actually possible?
- Players with gimped characters should have to group up and get harassed or even blacklisted by Elitists?
- Players who only have 20-30 minutes to play and don't have time to wait for a group to come along at their level and just want to run a single quest should have an XP Penalty?

NO!

Hirelings should be BETTER!
Rogue Hirelings should be available for Plat!
I'd certainly agree that Hirelings should count as an extra player for XP boost purposes on Grouping XP weekends!

Hell No to Punishing Players who make use of Hirelings!

[savingsoul]

So the OP wants the Devs to punish players who aren't able to group up for whatever reason?

- Players who are Anti-Social shouldn't be able to earn as much XP as Social players?
- Players who play on Wayfinder should have to pay 2,500 tp per toon to transfer to a server with enough players on to make grouping actually possible?
- Players with gimped characters should have to group up and get harassed or even blacklisted by Elitists?
- Players who only have 20-30 minutes to play and don't have time to wait for a group to come along at their level and just want to run a single quest should have an XP Penalty?

NO!

Hirelings should be BETTER!
Rogue Hirelings should be available for Plat!
I'd certainly agree that Hirelings should count as an extra player for XP boost purposes on Grouping XP weekends!

Hell No to Punishing Players who make use of Hirelings!

The only thing I hear from this reply is this: let SSG program for and in anticipation of failure.
DDO is a social game. Reaper is antithetical to soloists.
People mostly solo because there aren't enough lfms--which is the problem the OP is trying to address.
If you want gameplay fully automated, you can sit back and watch old videos of DDO questing on YouTube.
If you want a flourishing game, you need to program systematically for a flourishing community.
The all-the-time buddy bonus mentioned by Torkzed is part of the solution.

A *much* better way to incentivize group play--if that is the goal--is to make buddy bonus xp an "all the time" thing.

[Annex]

/signed for more Permanent Gold Seal Hires sold in the Game Shop and Hires that level with your character.

[bruener]

Make a 10% XP Penalty Per Hireling

This one is obvious.

DDO needs people to play with others.

This would help to nudge players in the right direction.

Also, keep hirelings stupid. Don't bother to improve them or make them customizable. Focus on other, more important things.

Lastly, establish DDO etiquette to dismiss hirelings, eg. healers and rogues, when their role is filled by a real player in the party. For example, it is rude to keep a healer hireling summoned when you have a real healer in the party.

The strange thing is I saw an lfm about a week or so ago saying that there *was* a penalty for hirelings. I have tested it though with a single hireling and there was no indication of a penalty in the progress panel after summoning a hireling.

Ummm no. Why put in penalties for ppl who prefer soloing for whatever reason. You do you and I'll do me.

[Xgya]

Don't penalize players that still need training wheels.

Give more mechanics that help those players bridge the gap, not more mechanics that make that gap wider.