Make a 10% XP Penalty Per Hireling

[Tsutti]

Torkzed's idea of an all-the-time buddy bonus is a better solution.

Hmm this I would be in favor of, though it would probably make sense as a pretty low bonus (maybe 2% per extra person, so 10% with full party and 1% in raids, so 11% with full party) so that they can still do "buddy bonus" weekends where now it would just be an increased buddy bonus rather than an added one.

[SoVeryBelgian]

I'd rather just make grouping up grant a bonus % of XP


I don't need my level grind slog to be SLOWER especially when finding a PUG is as tedious as it is.

[Smokewolf]

Is that half the player base is running hardcore! Thus those left on the main servers are having an increasingly difficult time grouping within their level. Furthermore, once DDO expands the level cap beyond 30, I only expect this situation to get worse over time.

So to answer the OP’s question, should DDO penalize players for using a Hire?

NO

Justification:

Do you realize that hires provide critical aid to those solo’ing and that to penalize their use would make it harder to level? Thus fewer people would want to play unless a group is immediately available. Which if you think about it, you’d have fewer solo players around to post LFM in the first place... (chicken and the egg problem)

Alternate suggestion:

Carrots always work better than sticks when encouraging / influencing player behaviors. Thus, it would be better to increase the grouping bonus from a flat 1% to 1% per “player”. (Capping @ 6%)

-Smoke

[savingsoul]

Hmm this I would be in favor of, though it would probably make sense as a pretty low bonus (maybe 2% per extra person, so 10% with full party and 1% in raids, so 11% with full party) so that they can still do "buddy bonus" weekends where now it would just be an increased buddy bonus rather than an added one.

2% per extra person for both quests and raids would be fine.

[Wizard1406]

No, really bad idea.

DDO is a low population game, it's is difficult to get a group going, especially during HC and at a time where American players (majority of player base) are asleep/at work etc.

And hireling -10% xp overly punishes players who don't have great self heals, so need they need a hireling healer. Those are usually used as an out of combat "healing potions" since hirelings are way too weak to survive combat, starting at mid heroic levels. This is tedious with AI problems and the cooldown for healing after teleport. A real player would always be better to have.


Instead SSG should do some changes that increase LFM participation and make mega-server or cross server instances. (Or Server merge if people don't lose their server specific things and shared banks etc.)

Some ideas for more LFM participation:

- Permanent buddy bonus; higher for VIP

- Auto quest share and teleport to entrance when joining LFM with people already inside

- Make quests give full xp like if you had bravery , first time and daily still up, when joining a LFM, where the party leader has those bonuses up. Oherwise half of the level appropriate people won't join because: "I have already done that quest, so meh xp, I'll rather solo another quest instead of joining that LFM."

edit: - Red door always possible, don't lock people out (a big deal for things like Sharn) from participating in LFMs

[Stormraiser]

Don't penalize players that still need training wheels.

Give more mechanics that help those players bridge the gap, not more mechanics that make that gap wider.

You would think this was obvious...

Many people start a group with themselves and a healer hireling and then as the group builds up, they dismiss the hireling. Do you really want to disincentivize those players from starting the group in the first place?

[savingsoul]

Okay, I put Torkzed's much better suggestion of an all-the-time buddy bonus as *the first thing* in the OP, but there are still replies coming in that ignore that I have done that. Of course, if people don't bother reading the OP, they probably aren't going to bother reading this comment.

***Sigh.***

[Bacon_Burger]

Bad idea. It would be absolutely foolish to punish solo players. There are many people who have legitimate reasons for wanting (or needing) to play alone. The game should support these folks too. Access to hirelings allows these players to play a greater diversity of builds.

*Breaking News* player doesn't like hirelings, #boycotthirelings.

Welcome to 2021

[Carpone]

Imagine thinking hirelings are a benefit in DDO. Their AI is atrocious as is their pathing.

[Smokewolf]

Imagine thinking hirelings are a benefit in DDO. Their AI is atrocious as is their pathing.

Past lvl 4, hires are only used for off-heals and the occasional D-Door. Thus the AI is pretty much irrelevant in the majority of situations.

[rabidfox]

Past lvl 4, hires are only used for off-heals and the occasional D-Door. Thus the AI is pretty much irrelevant in the majority of situations.

And as 1-up tokens. Park'em at the entrance and use them for a res if ever need. If a party doesn't have a jibbers and doesn't want to waste cakes, keeping a hire around is a cheap solution to wipes.

[Alrik_Fassbauer]

Original Post:

Make a 10% XP Penalty Per Hireling

This one is obvious.

DDO needs people to play with others.

This would help to nudge players in the right direction.

I don't want to play with zergers while I play a flower sniffer. 'Nuff said.

But - the majority isn't playing like flower sniffers. That's the problem. the majority doesn't even wait long enough for a trapper to lay out traps.

If you want a flourishing game, you need to program systematically for a flourishing community.

Impatient players blacklisting me because I'm an flower sniffer isn't the kind of "flourish" I'd expect.

Give more mechanics that help those players bridge the gap, not more mechanics that make that gap wider.

I'd say : Make mechanics more accessible for people through better wording !

Is that half the player base is running hardcore! Thus those left on the main servers are having an increasingly difficult time grouping within their level. Furthermore, once DDO expands the level cap beyond 30, I only expect this situation to get worse over time.

I agree. Most of the game already consists of 1 certain type of players, which tries to influence the rest of the game.

Alternate suggestion:

Carrots always work better than sticks when encouraging / influencing player behaviors.

My suggestion would be EASY low-level raids.
Slowly train people through play than through watching videos !

But no, raids have become exclusive end game content ...

[Dendrix]

No. No. just No.

stupid suggestion.

[OfElectricMen]

Counterpoint:

No

Don't like them? Don't use them. Don't stay in a group that uses them. Set up your own LFM that clearly specifies NO HIRELINGS.

[OfElectricMen]

Okay, I put Torkzed's much better suggestion of an all-the-time buddy bonus as *the first thing* in the OP, but there are still replies coming in that ignore that I have done that. Of course, if people don't bother reading the OP, they probably aren't going to bother reading this comment.

***Sigh.***

That's because we already knew that was a better suggestion since the first time it was suggested long, long ago. If you don't want people to keep responding the bad idea, remove that part of the post or ask a Mod to remove the whole thing?

[LOOON375]

I love threads like this lol
If you want to run with hires, do.
If you don't want to run with hires, don't.
Trying to dictate how and why others play because you don't like it is hilarious
especially if it doesn't affect you in any way, good bad or indifferent.

[savingsoul]

That's because we already knew that was a better suggestion since the first time it was suggested long, long ago. If you don't want people to keep responding the bad idea, remove that part of the post or ask a Mod to remove the whole thing?

I agree. People are wasting their time *because they don't read*. You are wasting your time. I am wasting my time. There are more of them than me though, and they are all wasting their time. Or maybe they are waiting for an lfm or waiting with an lfm *because they haven't made the connection*. I'm done with this thread. LOL

[darkniteyogi]

Group play already is incentivized.

-It is much faster to finish a quest, sometimes two or more times faster.
-It is especially easier to accumulate reaper XP, as much as 10 times easier.
-You also don't need to do anything and can still get free XP.
-You can pass and share named loot with as many as 5 other players. Farming Sharn gear for example is made tremendously easier if you all are different classes.
-You get more mysterious remnants.
-You have people to Res you and prevent wiping.
-Solo play sometimes means having to sacrifice overall strength by multiclassing rogue skills.
-Reaper self healing penalty is already severely making it hard for solo play.

Solo players already have it hard enough. Group play is already greatly incentivized. Adding additional permanent XP grouping boosts would make no sense from a balancing standpoint and a design standpoint. Might as well also increase the drop rates of named loot for each party member in the party. If anything, in some other games based off D&D, players get a penalty for each other player they are sharing their XP with.

[Jbo335]

I love threads like this lol
If you want to run with hires, do.
If you don't want to run with hires, don't.
Trying to dictate how and why others play because you don't like it is hilarious
especially if it doesn't affect you in any way, good bad or indifferent.

I could not agree more to your statements! Strange thread.

[TrinityTurtle]

Something no one ever talks about in these discussions, what does one REALLY think the result of forcing people to do something they don't want to do is going to accomplish? Does anyone honestly believe that making penalties that force players to feel like they have to group is going to give anyone a good group experience? People don't like being railroaded, and players who aren't super social aren't going to become it just because there is a mechanic putting pressure on them to group for advantage. Then you'll just see a whole bunch of threads again like we used to about players who don't care about others, who don't behave the same as others, who want to keep their loot to sell/feed/get essences whatever instead of sharing/why join a group when you want to zerg alone/why are other players so bad and slowing down my progress/ add other complaints that have cropped up over the years.

When I'm feeling social, I post groups. And 9 times outta 10 when I'm not doing something really obscure for favor or something or really hated like Threnal, people join, there is talk and a good time is had by all. When I'm not feeling it, one of the worst things people can do is be grouped with me on a bad day, so I go do my own thing and spare others the worst of my add issues. Why should i be penalized if I'm on a build that I don't self heal well on (barbarians, I'm just not good at keeping them alive, I know others are, but I suck at it) when I'm being responsible to others by not being with them in disaster mode?

One of the best solutions for more groups is posting more in the game, not talking about it here. I can't even count the number of times I've seen people post to complain about it on the forums that i know in game who will not EVER post a group, but want someone else to do it for them. Or people who won't post a group to try a new quest because they don't know it and can't 'lead', instead of just posting and taking the six (or however many people join) enter, six people work together to make it a success. It's not a perfect solution, there are things people don't want to join, but it will help social players who want to see others who also want to and maybe make freinds to play together more. There are players that a lot of people don't want to play with due to behavior. There are fluctuations in busy times vs. empty servers even when hardcore is closed. Some quest are universally hated and no one will join anyway, but you don't know until you try. Create a user channel devoted to grouping on your server and post info about it on your server forum/general chat to find people.

Best of luck to those that want to group up and those that solo. Room for everyone to have fun in this game.