Find Traps divine spell

[Dark_Lord_Mary]

Find Traps divine spell - needs to be fixed to actually work - presently it does not do much.

The spell should grant the caster the ability to spot and search for traps like a rogue, and scale to a meaningful level so that a lvl 20 or 30 cleric can actually spot and search traps in quests. Presently the spell does nothing at all useful. Either lets remove it or fix it - it should boost spot and search and grant the trapfinding feat rogues get, temporarily, while the spell is active. If the cleric/fvs has rogue levels, it should boost the spot/search to give a reason to multi-class splash.

[Chacka_DDO]

Find Traps divine spell - needs to be fixed to actually work - presently it does not do much.

The spell should grant the caster the ability to spot and search for traps like a rogue, and scale to a meaningful level so that a lvl 20 or 30 cleric can actually spot and search traps in quests. Presently the spell does nothing at all useful. Either lets remove it or fix it - it should boost spot and search and grant the trapfinding feat rogues get, temporarily, while the spell is active. If the cleric/fvs has rogue levels, it should boost the spot/search to give a reason to multi-class splash.

To make the description fit the actual spell effect the spell should give a bonus to search in a way that a cleric has the same skill level as a rogue IF the cleric also invests skill points in it.
A simple solution would be to give an untyped (stacks with everything) bonus to search for 100% the clr/fvs level minus the actual skill rank of the character plus the epic character level.
This means a clr/fvs can completely ignore the search skill and still has almost the same skill as a skilled rogue at the same character level.
This is, of course, a solution not everyone has to agree with but in my opinion, it would be acceptable and it reflects almost exactly the spell description.

[Enoach]

How can this be improved?

This is what it is currently potentially providing:

1. It grants temporarily the ability of the Trap finding feat which allows you to spot/find traps with a DC20+
2. It grants an Insight Bonus to search equal to 1/2 the Caster Level (in this case cleric/fvs)
3. When used from a scroll with UMD it is base CL3 which Artificer Scroll Knowledge can improve, so for the cost of casting 2nd level scroll (which an be purchased in marketplace) you get a minimum of +1 Insight

How many sources of insightful search skill exists at each level?

A level 20 Cleric gets a +10 Insightful bonus base

An Epic Cleric who is in a Divine Sphere can gain another +5 to CL from Destiny Caster Level Bonus

There exists Divine Augmentation Items for another +2 Caster Levels

This can translate up to a +13 Insightful Search Skill, even if the Cleric is a 19/1 Cleric/{Other Class}

[Chacka_DDO]

How can this be improved?

This is what it is currently potentially providing:

1. It grants temporarily the ability of the Trap finding feat which allows you to spot/find traps with a DC20+
2. It grants an Insight Bonus to search equal to 1/2 the Caster Level (in this case cleric/fvs)
3. When used from a scroll with UMD it is base CL3 which Artificer Scroll Knowledge can improve, so for the cost of casting 2nd level scroll (which an be purchased in marketplace) you get a minimum of +1 Insight

How many sources of insightful search skill exists at each level?

A level 20 Cleric gets a +10 Insightful bonus base

An Epic Cleric who is in a Divine Sphere can gain another +5 to CL from Destiny Caster Level Bonus

There exists Divine Augmentation Items for another +2 Caster Levels

This can translate up to a +13 Insightful Search Skill, even if the Cleric is a 19/1 Cleric/{Other Class}

I don't say the current version of this spell is bad I just only say it doesn't really do what the description in the tool tip tells you and I would like if it does what it tells you.
If you use an insightful search item the bonus to search from the buff Find Traps does nothing for you and it is not hard to have such an item.

[DYWYPI]

At Level 20 you can easily get generic +17 Search items; if you were to add that [+13] total bonus, which Enoach mentioned above - I'll assume that's correct - that gives you up to Search 30. Level 20 Quests typically have a Search DC of 34. Thus you would only need 4 additional Search on top to find said trap(s). In contrast a Pure Level 20 Rogue that has invested in 'Trapfinding' isn't going to get the massive: +10 Insightful Search bonus, which is better than any Search bonus values found on generic ML20 wearable items. The Rogue would only get [+1] bonus to Search from the 'Find Traps' Scroll.

You can't have your cake and eat it.

[darkniteyogi]

In my experience splashing rogue in 90% of my lives, trapping is enough without an insightful bonus. So +10 fvs/cler levels should be enough to reach Rogue skill point levels.

[Chacka_DDO]

again a rephrase for those who still not understand...

The spell description says: "Grants the caster the ability to find traps much like a skilled Rogue" and the actual effect is obviously NOT this!

My suggested formula of an untyped bonus (stacking with all) equal to the character (character level = caster level) level minus the actual skill you have would in contrast do exactly what the description says.
And even more, it should give such a bonus to search AND spot!

There are of course other formulas possible and you can also dislike the suggestion but my impression is that it is already difficult to actually understand the contexts.

[Enoach]

again a rephrase for those who still not understand...

The spell description says: "Grants the caster the ability to find traps much like a skilled Rogue" and the actual effect is obviously NOT this!

...

This is where I disagree with you, and that is because a skilled Rogue can find a trap of DC 20+, which is what this spell grants you. It also grants the insight bonus that combined with gear and other skill buffs does give you the potential of finding this higher DC traps.

[NemesisAlien]

Find Traps divine spell - needs to be fixed to actually work - presently it does not do much.

The spell should grant the caster the ability to spot and search for traps like a rogue, and scale to a meaningful level so that a lvl 20 or 30 cleric can actually spot and search traps in quests. Presently the spell does nothing at all useful. Either lets remove it or fix it - it should boost spot and search and grant the trapfinding feat rogues get, temporarily, while the spell is active. If the cleric/fvs has rogue levels, it should boost the spot/search to give a reason to multi-class splash.

Actually its suppose to be a magic spell that not only find the trap but disable it.

[Hobgoblin]

This is where I disagree with you, and that is because a skilled Rogue can find a trap of DC 20+, which is what this spell grants you. It also grants the insight bonus that combined with gear and other skill buffs does give you the potential of finding this higher DC traps.

well this is interesting - i tested this about 2 years ago i had a pure cleric with a high spot and search (dont ask why ) that couldnt find traps even with this spell - i did get the warning message that there were traps

to test this i went into deleras part 4 - went to first trap and searched with and without spell couldnt find it either way - iirc


so hope its fixed!

most of the chars i use this on are a mix of arti or rogue and rest cleric so gives me something like +9ish to search


hob

[DYWYPI]

The words: "much like a skilled Rogue" simply means; a Rogue, which possesses the 'Trapfinding' Feat and thus can detect "difficult" traps with a [Search] DC of 20 or higher.

"[...] Grants the caster the ability to find traps much like a skilled Rogue. ..."

It temporarily removes the restriction for Classes without the 'Trapfinding' feat that normally cannot find traps with the Search skill if the DC is higher than 20.

A Cleric can also spend Skill points in Search if they so wish. In fact the level 20 Cleric is at a slight advantage over the pure Rogue during the spell's duration.

The main difference is Search; is a Rogue 'Class skill', whereas for a Cleric it's 'Cross-class' and hence why the Cleric is more than fully compensated using half its level as the [Insightful] Search bonus.

Remember: Rogues don't "automagically" get Skill points spent in Search, nor does the Cleric (so they are both treated similar in that respect). A Rogue may choose to spend Skill points in Search, but it's not mandatory in any way whatsoever - most Rogues do choose to invest in Search.

A few weeks ago (22 April, 2021) I rolled a pure default; Level 15, Sun Elf (Morninglord), and cast "Find Traps" for some difficult traps in the Level 16 quest 'The Lords of Dust'. She had no problem whatsoever finding the Trap Control panels, which required a Search DC of 27.

What is being asked for; is it a new type of stacking Search bonus for 'Find Traps', e.g. "The caster gains an [Lynnabel Deluxe] bonus of caster level/2 to the Search Skill"? Thus the Level 20 Cleric would also now temporarily have an additional (+10 Lynnabel Deluxe bonus), without needing to spend any points in Search.

I'm failing to see the logic of - potentially - introducing even more "power creep" when the Scroll is already very useful to certain classes. Is the motivation anything to do with the fact Hardcore is running, and some people are too scared to enter rooms, which may or may not contain traps. Or perhaps its greed, or sloth, etc. Hopefully, it isn't the motivation and its just pure coincidence. :-)