Hardcore Trapper, Pale Master, Reaper Runner in builds

[FURYous]

I am trying to make a viable Pale Master/Trapper for Hardcore and would like input on how to make it better. I am about to TR from a Pal/FvS build that is tough but the DPS is too little. This will be for my Reaper XP run. Constructive criticism is welcome

Hardcore Trapper, Pale Master, Reaper Runner

[Careall]

The +8 stats tome makes a lot of what I would normally recommend a little out of place, so all these recommendations may not apply. I usually run a pure PM/EK. The addition of the Rogue level isn't unlike when I occasionally add a Fighter level.

You're splitting between a tanky tough melee using EK and PM combo, then switching to a caster (for DPS, I presume). If you're going for a ranged toon, then I could see this build might work but I don't see where you'd get decent ranged attacks from. I think you're going to burn through mana awfully fast to be of good use throughout a quest or solo. Also, I see a heavy reliance on your skeleton and summons, and that's a mistake after around level 10. The tankiest of tankiest pets don't provide much other than a momentary distraction from about level 10 quests and on. They also increase the risk of drawing in unwanted aggro and you could lose control of the quest quickly, particularly in Reaper where more spawns increase the chance of getting a reaper.

I'd follow that build to get you to level 10-14, but then switch everything out, including Augment Summons.

You can easily have a nigh-invulnerable build with a few tweaks. Switch your primary stat to Con and level that, not Int. If you can hit 450+ HP by level 14, you can get hit with a full Elite Named Champ Beholder's critical Disintegrate Ray and you have a good chance of surviving. For Reaper, you'll need more. I know, there are anti-beholder crystals, but that's not the point. That disintegrate ray is about the highest single source of damage you'd encounter (except ToEE2 end-fight), making a toon with that many HP extremely tough to kill outright. You'll even survive walking through most traps even without evasion.

I'd also recommend the Toughness Feat. I know this feat is scoffed at for most builds, but this is Hardcore and a single death is a literal game-changer. I usually take 4x toughness, but with the +8 stat tome, you can get away with fewer. You won't need Insightful Reflexes until around level 9-12 but you could take it earlier in place of a Toughness feat.

For the caster feats, I'd go with Mental Toughness - especially if you switch from a DC build to a combat build, Extend Spell, Maximize, Heighten, and Empower, in that order. You could swap out Mental Toughness with Quicken if you find you have enough mana, particularly with that +8 tome.

For skills, you're missing Heal, which is important for your Death Aura and Neg Energy Burst healing. I'd also put more into Jump. If you get hit with a Dispell, it's critical that you be able to jump out from the middle of a combat horde if you're taking too much damage.

Where do you get the DPS from using this build? Early on, Sonic Blast just got upgraded and is doing decent damage. Prior to that upgrade, I'd recommend any of the newer first-level Bolt spells. They are a bit difficult to use at a distance (unless your target is stationary), but they work well up close and do a lot of damage for few spell points - to a single target. They are a good way to finish off reapers, champs, or mimics at levels from 1 to about 10. I like to use AOE DOT spells, like Ice Storm and Cloud Kill for taking out the trash. Ice Storm and Solid Fog make for an incredible combination. I've literally sat down in a massive combat (Elite) with those AOEs right in front of me and none of the mobs laid a finger on me. I wouldn't do that in Reaper, but I'd use that combination. I use Maximized AOE blast spells, like Acid Blast, for emergency DPS. For example, soloing Devil Assault on Elite, I use a Maximized Acid Blast, Ball Lightning, or Negative Energy Burst to quickly take out champs that are actually doing enough DPS for me to start worrying. Otherwise, regular DPS is sufficient. Focus on Spell Power in place of increasing DC's. Some spells, you'll need DC's to hit, but there are a lot of spells that don't allow save or spell resist - generally dot spells like Electric Surge or Biting Cold. Maximize and Empower them to take out even the toughest bosses. Last, but not least, consider the Tier 5 EK enhancement, Eldritch Tempest. This cleave attack does a lot of damage, knocks opponents down, and then slows them. If you get into a pinch, Eldritch Tempest can make for a quick escape.

I prefer Human for the extra Feat, but again, with the +8 tome, you can easily sacrifice a Toughness Feat. I also see that you're taking Armored Arcana and Shield Training. Using these and being a rogue might require you to remove your medium armor and shield when trapping. I prefer the tankiness of the medium armor and shield, but it could be annoying for trapping.

For most reapers, early on, you can use Otto Resistible Dance for CC and lock them up until dead - Heighten it if you need to. At higher levels use Irresistible Dance on reapers. Champs may be immune, but reapers dance.

[FURYous]

The +8 stats tome makes a lot of what I would normally recommend a little out of place, so all these recommendations may not apply. I usually run a pure PM/EK. The addition of the Rogue level isn't unlike when I occasionally add a Fighter level.

You're splitting between a tanky tough melee using EK and PM combo, then switching to a caster (for DPS, I presume). If you're going for a ranged toon, then I could see this build might work but I don't see where you'd get decent ranged attacks from. I think you're going to burn through mana awfully fast to be of good use throughout a quest or solo. Also, I see a heavy reliance on your skeleton and summons, and that's a mistake after around level 10. The tankiest of tankiest pets don't provide much other than a momentary distraction from about level 10 quests and on. They also increase the risk of drawing in unwanted aggro and you could lose control of the quest quickly, particularly in Reaper where more spawns increase the chance of getting a reaper.

I'd follow that build to get you to level 10-14, but then switch everything out, including Augment Summons.

You can easily have a nigh-invulnerable build with a few tweaks. Switch your primary stat to Con and level that, not Int. If you can hit 450+ HP by level 14, you can get hit with a full Elite Named Champ Beholder's critical Disintegrate Ray and you have a good chance of surviving. For Reaper, you'll need more. I know, there are anti-beholder crystals, but that's not the point. That disintegrate ray is about the highest single source of damage you'd encounter (except ToEE2 end-fight), making a toon with that many HP extremely tough to kill outright. You'll even survive walking through most traps even without evasion.

You're splitting between a tanky tough melee using EK and PM combo, then switching to a caster (for DPS, I presume). If you're going for a ranged toon, then I could see this build might work but I don't see where you'd get decent ranged attacks from. I think you're going to burn through mana awfully fast to be of good use throughout a quest or solo. Also, I see a heavy reliance on your skeleton and summons, and that's a mistake after around level 10. The tankiest of tankiest pets don't provide much other than a momentary distraction from about level 10 quests and on. They also increase the risk of drawing in unwanted aggro and you could lose control of the quest quickly, particularly in Reaper where more spawns increase the chance of getting a reaper.

I am thinking of grouping with a DPS Pal/FvS so I want to CC and DC kill, I also plan to use the SLA's for most of my damage. The pet and augment summons is for distractions until I can get things locked down. I normally run with at least one hireling as they seem to help enough to be worth it.

I'd follow that build to get you to level 10-14, but then switch everything out, including Augment Summons.

You can easily have a nigh-invulnerable build with a few tweaks. Switch your primary stat to Con and level that, not Int. If you can hit 450+ HP by level 14, you can get hit with a full Elite Named Champ Beholder's critical Disintegrate Ray and you have a good chance of surviving. For Reaper, you'll need more. I know, there are anti-beholder crystals, but that's not the point. That disintegrate ray is about the highest single source of damage you'd encounter (except ToEE2 end-fight), making a toon with that many HP extremely tough to kill outright. You'll even survive walking through most traps even without evasion.

This is the main reason I took the +8 tome to shore up the CON and INT, you are right that I want as much mitigation as I can get without sacrificing DCs. I plan to stay in the rear with the gear for the most part and I wanted the best healing options I could find. I will take another look at the enhancement lines to see what I can tweak there.

I do plan to use the free feat change and pay to change the enhancements once the pet loses it's effectiveness.

I'd also recommend the Toughness Feat. I know this feat is scoffed at for most builds, but this is Hardcore and a single death is a literal game-changer. I usually take 4x toughness, but with the +8 stat tome, you can get away with fewer. You won't need Insightful Reflexes until around level 9-12 but you could take it earlier in place of a Toughness feat.

For the caster feats, I'd go with Mental Toughness - especially if you switch from a DC build to a combat build, Extend Spell, Maximize, Heighten, and Empower, in that order. You could swap out Mental Toughness with Quicken if you find you have enough mana, particularly with that +8 tome.

I took all the metamagics for the SLAs and auras. I plan to DPS using mostly the SLAs and kill the rest with instakills.

For skills, you're missing Heal, which is important for your Death Aura and Neg Energy Burst healing. I'd also put more into Jump. If you get hit with a Dispell, it's critical that you be able to jump out from the middle of a combat horde if you're taking too much damage.

Good catch, I was so busy trying to fit in rogue skills that I missed heal.

Where do you get the DPS from using this build? Early on, Sonic Blast just got upgraded and is doing decent damage. Prior to that upgrade, I'd recommend any of the newer first-level Bolt spells. They are a bit difficult to use at a distance (unless your target is stationary), but they work well up close and do a lot of damage for few spell points - to a single target. They are a good way to finish off reapers, champs, or mimics at levels from 1 to about 10. I like to use AOE DOT spells, like Ice Storm and Cloud Kill for taking out the trash. Ice Storm and Solid Fog make for an incredible combination. I've literally sat down in a massive combat (Elite) with those AOEs right in front of me and none of the mobs laid a finger on me. I wouldn't do that in Reaper, but I'd use that combination. I use Maximized AOE blast spells, like Acid Blast, for emergency DPS. For example, soloing Devil Assault on Elite, I use a Maximized Acid Blast, Ball Lightning, or Negative Energy Burst to quickly take out champs that are actually doing enough DPS for me to start worrying. Otherwise, regular DPS is sufficient. Focus on Spell Power in place of increasing DC's. Some spells, you'll need DC's to hit, but there are a lot of spells that don't allow save or spell resist - generally dot spells like Electric Surge or Biting Cold. Maximize and Empower them to take out even the toughest bosses. Last, but not least, consider the Tier 5 EK enhancement, Eldritch Tempest. This cleave attack does a lot of damage, knocks opponents down, and then slows them. If you get into a pinch, Eldritch Tempest can make for a quick escape.

Great information, thanks, I was planning on using mostly SLAs to save on mana but may need more punch.

I prefer Human for the extra Feat, but again, with the +8 tome, you can easily sacrifice a Toughness Feat. I also see that you're taking Armored Arcana and Shield Training. Using these and being a rogue might require you to remove your medium armor and shield when trapping. I prefer the tankiness of the medium armor and shield, but it could be annoying for trapping.

For most reapers, early on, you can use Otto Resistible Dance for CC and lock them up until dead - Heighten it if you need to. At higher levels use Irresistible Dance on reapers. Champs may be immune, but reapers dance.

Again great advice, I thank you greatly

[voxson5]

Fwiw I ran to 10rp this HC on my 5k toon pewpewpew during leveling, 15wiz/2arti/2monk lich inquisitive.

I think ranged undead with some kind of anti-fear is going to be your safest bet. It worked for me anyways. Inquis still puts out a slab of damage when combined with ek imbue + runearms + lowly cheese flamearrow wands (I used so many flame arrow wands).

If you just want rxp, why not join the at cap groups? Don't have to tr that way

I ran a deep gnome with maxed int, and was wearing kindred pendent + enchant aug - it was not enough to reliably hold reapers or mobs in elite shavarath, but everything else was fine. Despite a lower dc, colour spray is hands down the best cc and well worth taking gnome/dg for cheaper buy than FI.

(I ran DG for the extra wisdom to help spot)

[FURYous]

Fwiw I ran to 10rp this HC on my 5k toon pewpewpew during leveling, 15wiz/2arti/2monk lich inquisitive.

I think ranged undead with some kind of anti-fear is going to be your safest bet. It worked for me anyways. Inquis still puts out a slab of damage when combined with ek imbue + runearms + lowly cheese flamearrow wands (I used so many flame arrow wands).

Great advice and after a nights sleep to mull it over, I came to much the same conclusion but with different results. My last death at 4,300 favor made me sad, so now I am thinking massive survivability, then heals, then as much DPS as I can get. So I am working on this: Sherman Machine Gun

It's still a work in progress but looks pretty good on paper so far.

If you just want rxp, why not join the at cap groups? Don't have to tr that way

I ran a deep gnome with maxed int, and was wearing kindred pendent + enchant aug - it was not enough to reliably hold reapers or mobs in elite shavarath, but everything else was fine. Despite a lower dc, colour spray is hands down the best cc and well worth taking gnome/dg for cheaper buy than FI.

(I ran DG for the extra wisdom to help spot)

I have a couple of friends I am running with, my 5k toon died at 4,300 favor or so to the maggot dot that I couldn't heal fast enough on my rogue inq build. I had another toon at 11 that I just zerged to 18 to help my friend get 5k, who didn't die. We are both holding 20 and he is at 4,824 favor right now so hope to get him 5k tonight, then I will TR my guy that I zerged to try for the 5k again and reaper at the same time, it's a long shot but we are having fun trying.