U49 Preview 3: 4/13 - 4/15

[macauboy429]

Please adjust the Perfect Two Weapon Fighting to +10% DS also, or anything better, when in live for U49.

TWFs are indeed needed some of your love .

Thank you my dear.

[barecm]

Playing on Lam a little more. It feels like FoTW for an archer is clearly the way to go in terms of burst damage. I am finding myself getting impatient with the 18s cooldown of Hunt's End when playing both of them in succession. My suggestion is to make Hunt's end either 12s cooldown or change it to a number of charges type of skill to match FoTW Adrenaline and give it some % regain on vorpal. Maybe 50% or 75% instead of 100% if the damage potential is off.

As is, Hunt's End is not as good as FoTW. However, you have to balance that with the rest of FoTW vs the rest of Shiradi.

I also tried to run in Leg Dread because I wanted to test the blunt arrow +1 to crit range. Although I did see 16-20 x5 as my crit profile, the damage potential was awful, so no need to go down that path if anyone wanted to check it out.

[katz]

are the other bow combat changes in this? or just the few mentioned things? its not a proper test without the increased attack speed and everything else etc etc

but, as someone who literally just completed heroic completionist AA every single life... i'm not happy with what i'm seeing in the bow combat changes thread

[Pandjed]

1. Half-Elf Dilettante: Ranger now seems kinda decent, as the capped STR-bonus for bows was much more of a reason to respec to another ability modifier and . Not that HElves are anywhere close to other premium races with this change, but if you have racial AP going on, it's actually one of the things you can spend on... may be now the best archer race as it adds much more helpful stuff to rangers and other archer builds outside of their box.

2. AA Final Strike: Sounds interesting, will definitely try it out more. Usually just saved the AP, because of the scaling ranger level issue, and that for ranger, I think DWS is a better T5 tree for archers for overall performance (Slaying Arrow is nice, but tends to make the build rather gimicky).
Won't miss the unintended stuff, because it wasn't really that obvious and I rather have its actual ability (AoE on a bow) work better.

3. triple/quadra/penta hits: Just a pet peeve and maybe I'm wrong, but I really think it's either "triple/quadruple/quintuple" or "tri/tetra/penta", not this jumbled mess. Anyone who's better in English and Latin can confirm?

4. Adrenaline certainly took a hit after a huge unintended buff, so I guess good going SSG, for finally applying nerfs as soon as possible? I mean, many ppl seemed to ask for them to make their nerfs quicker and what can be quicker than during the Lamannia Preview? :P
I guess, this means adjusting the playstyle a bit and use them more often to make more use of the increased regen. Needs some playing to get it right, but shouldn't be a problem overall. Makes it more worth to spend more resources into DS as a THF.
If it turns out to be too lackluster, I'll just take it as a band-aid until the ED rework, which would have been the next opportunity to nerf Adrenaline if the Devs want to, and I rather have it now reduced to get used to it, rather than living in ignorant bliss while falsely assuming that it's exactly what the devs wanted, just to cry like a child whose toy has been stolen, when the inevitable nerf comes.

5. Hunt's End definitely ends up in a better spot, as it first allows you to use it twice during an action boost if you plan correctly (Hunt's End, AB, High Damage Attack 1, Hunt's End, High Damage Attack 2) and even my AA builds can now combine Slaying Arrow/Hunt's End every 20 seconds.

6. Offhand Strike is a bit outside my expertise, as I never played tempest and as I currently have a strange ranger build, which uses DWS as main, uses THF with a little splash of archery in addition to TWF feats, I can say, that with just the base combat style feats and general combat enhancements, THF overshadows TWF with similar weapons (like 2 Vulkoor's Edge vs. 1 Tail of the Scorpion) by quite a marging over the course of most levels.
Things like Damage Reduction, the numbers of enemy's hit, etc. puts pure THF way ahead of pure TWF in terms of usability and power, imo.

Yet Monkey_Archer made a good point about the missing Perfect THF and its offhand bonus.

I'm guessing they just don't know what to do with this feat yet. Its in a somewhat rough place atm...

Could just make it 10% doublestrike, but then its not really a TWF feat and will be taken by THF and SWF even more often than now...
Could convert the 10% offhand DS to 10% offhand strike chance (or replace the whole feat with +20% offhand strike chance) but then tempest would need compensation...
Could remake it as full stat mod to offhand, but yet again another proxy tempest nerf...
Could just add 10 combat style melee power, but that seems lacking...

Other than the rest of the "Perfect Fighting Style"-feats, PTWF has a rather strange case of being still rather useful for non-TWF builds, as the +5% DS was a general buff. So changing the feat (like +10% Doublestrike), also affect all other fighting styles...

In this case, I actually would support the notion to make the feat stronger, but limit it to TWF to have it fit better in line with all the other "Perfect Fighting Style"-feats. Sucks for some, but having it work outside TWF may have been misguided in the first place and was only doable, because some of its effect was on a pure TWF-mechanic.
I mean, they could add a "When you're TWF"-clause to it, but if they rework the feat anyway, I think limiting its bonuses to TWF only make more sense.

Maybe we could get a higher ability modifier for the main-hand (which wouldn't overlap with Tempest, I think?).


Oh well, ED-pass may also effect destiny feats, so maybe any rework of this feat may be temporary anyway.

[mikarddo]

Playing on Lam a little more. It feels like FoTW for an archer is clearly the way to go in terms of burst damage. I am finding myself getting impatient with the 18s cooldown of Hunt's End when playing both of them in succession. My suggestion is to make Hunt's end either 12s cooldown or change it to a number of charges type of skill to match FoTW Adrenaline and give it some % regain on vorpal. Maybe 50% or 75% instead of 100% if the damage potential is off.

As is, Hunt's End is not as good as FoTW. However, you have to balance that with the rest of FoTW vs the rest of Shiradi.

I also tried to run in Leg Dread because I wanted to test the blunt arrow +1 to crit range. Although I did see 16-20 x5 as my crit profile, the damage potential was awful, so no need to go down that path if anyone wanted to check it out.

I am curious. With a bow - did you regen Adrenalines fast enough to use them every 6 sec (w/ Manyshot) and never run out or how did that feel?

[Carpone]

I am curious. With a bow - did you regen Adrenalines fast enough to use them every 6 sec (w/ Manyshot) and never run out or how did that feel?

Max attacks per min with a bow is 76, so on average you're getting almost 4 vorpals a minute. So, no, they don't refresh fast enough to continuously use Adren on Manyshot.

[Carpone]

****... I guess its the THF builds that are getting the nerf bat this time around. First you reduce the damage from primary stat, now you just our big hits in half (no, it doesn't matter that it recharges faster. I never ran out before).

Who's next? I'm going to guess bards...

Here's a thought: Actually test builds instead of guessing, which I'd think would be obvious with your self-proclaimed name. THF on Lam is in a good place using Fury of the Wild. Legendary Dreadnought on the otherhand is dead. With the proc changes, it takes an extended time for THF to stack up Blitz even with Haste Boost. Cleaving trash with Adrenaline on the otherhand is quite effective. The only oddity is spikey damage -- variance is quite wide with Fury THF: 6 sec kobolds one run, 14 second kobolds the next time.

[DjangoKeys]

During preview 2, folks were worried because no replacement had been suggested; it was just "offhand doublestrike will be removed from all sources". The doom-and-gloom crowd started posting, and since devs aren't going to (and shouldn't) constantly check in on a 20-page post, it created the illusion of peer consensus. Devs didn't say "we're working on a suitable alternative" because they were busy actually doing so, but it was still a lack of reassurance/response.

The utter lack of professionalism demonstrated here by SSG here is exactly what caused the uproar to begin with...and yes, this is 100% their fault.

Yes, the devs - or at the very least, the community manager - should be reading every post in that thread. Every. Single. One. And the fact that they couldn’t have been bothered to mention anywhere in preview 2 that they were working on a replacement for offhand doublestrike bonuses only reenforces the view of that they’re merely half-assing their way thru another series of upcoming blunders.

[Logicman69]

Here's a thought: Actually test builds instead of guessing, which I'd think would be obvious with your self-proclaimed name. THF on Lam is in a good place using Fury of the Wild. Legendary Dreadnought on the otherhand is dead. With the proc changes, it takes an extended time for THF to stack up Blitz even with Haste Boost. Cleaving trash with Adrenaline on the otherhand is quite effective. The only oddity is spikey damage -- variance is quite wide with Fury THF: 6 sec kobolds one run, 14 second kobolds the next time.

What makes you assume I didn't? Looks like I am losing another 10% off my DPS without reworking gear. Add that with the loss my DPS took with the last adjustment to THF and it is significant. Sure, I can compensate with reworking some gear, but that is not really the point.

Besides, why can't I claim doom and gloom? Sorcs did when they increased the spell cooldown (a whole 3 seconds) so I can complain about loosing DPS as well.

[Monkey_Archer]

In this case, I actually would support the notion to make the feat stronger, but limit it to TWF to have it fit better in line with all the other "Perfect Fighting Style"-feats. Sucks for some, but having it work outside TWF may have been misguided in the first place and was only doable, because some of its effect was on a pure TWF-mechanic.
I mean, they could add a "When you're TWF"-clause to it, but if they rework the feat anyway, I think limiting its bonuses to TWF only make more sense.

On further thought, all the other Perfect fighting style feats add some utility in addition to damage, so maybe something like:
"While TWF gain 5% DS, ~5-10 combat style melee power and +10 MRR cap"

[Nickodeamous]

Dear SSG,

I just tested 100 hits to see if the doublestrike and offhand doublestrike mechanics are indeed working as intended. Below are my findings:

Notes and assumptions

Current Build has 76% doublestrike (before reaper)
Offhand hit %: 90%
TWF handwrap monk
Recorded only non-crits for comparison purposes


Hits: 100
Doublestrike on main hit: 80% (a tad high but, pretty close)
Offhand hits: 76 (kinda low actually)
Offhand Doublestrike: 51% (pretty much right on the button)


Overall, pretty close, but the offhand number of hits seemed to be about 20% lower than it should be (my offhand hit is 90% at cap, and I am ring in only 76% of offhand hits). Everything else measured up to what is in the notes. I did not test procs. This was purely for DS and Offhand DS.

Hope this helps!
Nico

[Malusny]

It depends on how you view things, as is often the case. I see it as:

Reducing from +400% to +200% does not mean half damage. You are reducing from (1+400%) to (1+200%) so from 5 to 3 (not 4 to 2).

If you are already not running out a charges with a low DS build with the 1/3 regen rate I agree its a nerf, as I did post. Its only if you can actually use the faster regen that it might become a buff.

The +80% buff is if you can actually use every single charge with the increased regen rate.

In my opinion there was rarely a situation that someone was running out of charges and what they do is just to flatten the Fury's damage from the top of the spikes which makes the Fury actually perform worse than the dps of SWF in Fatesinger (even on a group of mobs where theoretically overall the THF should have an adventage.

[krolikru3]

not sure how Devs or players came up with 1.000.000 dmg hit.
Ibelieve someone was really switching destinies , buffing , switching again, buffing and then when buffed from Turn of The Tide or other Epic Moments, then also debuffed the Kobold by other characters around and then hitting a crazy hit.

That's exactly what happened

[Carpone]

Also tested Eldrich Tempest with Adrenaline and it seems quite weak. Did around 60k to the kobold boss and not sure how Devs or players came up with 1.000.000 dmg hit.
Ibelieve someone was really switching destinies , buffing , switching again, buffing and then when buffed from Turn of The Tide or other Epic Moments, then also debuffed the Kobold by other characters around and then hitting a crazy hit.

Spend any time on Lam, and it's painfully obvious that's exactly what's done to generate the Tiktok-like highlight reels for crazy numbers. There's no intersection with those numbers and reality. The Age of Axer -- where someone stacks a group to max buffs/debuffs for the benefit of one person -- hasn't been realistic gameplay for 10 years.

[Malusny]

The Adrenaline change is a nerf to builds that aren't at 100% multi-hit. To builds that are, it's a buff. As for the cool down, who cares? At 100% double strike you're doing the same dmg and you can use it more during boss fights due to the increased regeneration. This post is so full of flaws and unsupported opinions.

Tell me in numbers where is the dmg buff as you say?? Or maybe I need to go to math class again?

Cheers.

[Gregen]

Sora kell un-upgraded items are now level 11, upgraded to be level 13

Can I get some clarification on this? Sora Kell items have always been level 11 and upgraded to level 13. What is changing?

[Baahb3]

I am the only person that mentions it, perhaps my thinking is wrong.

It seems to me that fewer attacks = smaller chance to proc shield bash. Shield users don't care?

Shield bash cannot happen more than 1/sec and cannot double strike so I don't see this as big of an issue because you should have a full attack come up before that internal cooldown is up.

[IBCrabin]

Here's a thought: Actually test builds instead of guessing, which I'd think would be obvious with your self-proclaimed name. THF on Lam is in a good place using Fury of the Wild. Legendary Dreadnought on the otherhand is dead. With the proc changes, it takes an extended time for THF to stack up Blitz even with Haste Boost. Cleaving trash with Adrenaline on the otherhand is quite effective. The only oddity is spikey damage -- variance is quite wide with Fury THF: 6 sec kobolds one run, 14 second kobolds the next time.

Did they change how cleave and adrenaline work together in the preview? Back then, adrenaline only amplify the damage on first mob in the cleave; how is cleaving trash with adrenaline more effective than in the past?


The change to Adrenaline and Hunts end feels like they made the change to DS without evaluating the ripple effect, then an oh **** moment came after for this last minute change.

[Baahb3]

If people measure the time that they were killing some boss before the update and after the update it will be a more than considerable nerf.

I just feel sorry for players of levels 20-28 who will find it very hard to run something even on r1-r2 before they can get their end game gear.

Oh, for all that is holy, it takes me 3 minutes longer to finish a quest, and 37s longer to kill a boss because of this, how will I manage! [sarcasm]

And if people were running r1 or r2 before this without issue, it will not become suddenly 'very hard' to run the same content.

Is this a nerf or a buff, too early to tell, but even if it is a nerf, if this cleans up a majority of combat lag, I say do it.

[mikarddo]

Max attacks per min with a bow is 76, so on average you're getting almost 4 vorpals a minute. So, no, they don't refresh fast enough to continuously use Adren on Manyshot.

That is what I assumed as well. So, once every 15 seconds vs. once every 18 seconds for Hunts End - assuming non-stop combat.
Advantage Adrenalines - you can stack those up in bursts using one every second and you get stacks up front.
Advantage Hunts End - you "regen" that without fighting as well and each shot is more damage (300% vs. +200%).