Notes from a Barbarian past life

[Marshal_Lannes]

First, thanks to Spartankiller13 for helping brainstorm this build idea in the Request a Build, Get a Build thread. The idea being that I was looking to finish up some melee lives on a primarily caster character. For barbarian that turns out to be a 13 barbarian/7 bard split. Here are some notes on my experiences.

To being with, everyone is playing Hardcore, including me. So, when I do need a break from the ramped-up tension of HC and I'm not raiding I pop over to this character. Invariably, this means progress is slow, both because I'm not playing them a lot and since most people seem to be following a similar pattern (or playing HC exclusively) there are few LFMs on my main (Orien) server so I'm either soloing or duoing reaper (1).

I ended up picking Tiefling as my race. Any race can do this. I chose Tiefling because I think they look cool and you get a charisma boost. Starting stats are STR 17, DEX 10, CON 17, INT 10, WIS 8, CHA 16. My first six levels have been barbarian and while I'm taking the SWF feats (1 - SWF, 3 - precision, 6 - ISWF) I've been THF with the Ethereal greatsword and Carnifex. I have Elyd's Edge upgraded, but it didn't do as much damage as Carnifex on L5. Going to see now at L6 if it starts to pull even with ISWF. It's also possible I'll use Yarkuch's Greatsword at L6. Something of a bummer that Sword of the Thirty is btc and I can't swap it over from my Paladin. I've accepted my DPS will be substandard until I get to 10 when I pick up the Forgotten Ax which this build is based around.

Since I haven't played a barbarian in a long time, the thing which most impresses me is the run speed. It's, well, glorious. You are so fast! Sprint boost can zoom you through traps before they trigger. That's fun. As I said, DPS isn't optimal since I'm THF now while taking SWF feats but it's been strong enough where I haven't run into any trouble except in Heart of the Problem (which I feel is the most difficult low-level quest on reaper). I was grouping with another player and a hireling and all three of us died in the final room. And that was after me double Blood Tributing. I had to Jibbers and BT again to finish the quest. Everything else has gone smoothly and I'm at 208 HPs at L6. Blood Tribute allows you to power through almost any situation, but you already know that.

Planned enhancements are 32 points in Frenzy Berserker (for Focused Wrath), 14 in Swashbuckler (for stance), 10 Spellsinger, 11 Feydark leaving 13 points left. Although, realistically, since this is only for a PL and I won't see the points for 19 or 20 I only have 5 points left.

I'm not banking any xp since I want to get to 10 as fast as possible for my ax. I don't expect much trouble at level 6 (quests are still easy) or level 7 (3BC makes it fly by) but 8 and 9 are going to be where I feel push back if I'm still using a Carnifex/Yarkuck's combo without THF feats. Might dig around on an alt for a better SWF weapon.

[PrinceOfAsphodel]

I've accepted my DPS will be substandard until I get to 10 when I pick up the Forgotten Ax which this build is based around.

Ah, this is a Single Weapon Fighting Barb/Bard split? That's awesome! I actually designed something very similar about a month ago, I'm just waiting to collect some items for it because every time I reincarnate into a poorly geared build, I end up hating my life. My split is a little different though. I use 12 Barbarian for greater rage and an extra Berserker core, I go 3 Bard because Swashbuckling is awesome but I don't really need anything past that. The last 5 levels go to Cleric for extra HP in animal domain and Divine Might out of the Warpriest tree. Of course, I'm speaking in present tense but I haven't technically played this yet. Will have to report once I get around to doing it. This was all inspired bby the awesome new hand axe from the Dryad and the Demigod raid.

[cru121]

Ah, this is a Single Weapon Fighting Barb/Bard split? That's awesome! I actually designed something very similar about a month ago, I'm just waiting to collect some items for it because every time I reincarnate into a poorly geared build, I end up hating my life. My split is a little different though. I use 12 Barbarian for greater rage and an extra Berserker core, I go 3 Bard because Swashbuckling is awesome but I don't really need anything past that. The last 5 levels go to Cleric for extra HP in animal domain and Divine Might out of the Warpriest tree. Of course, I'm speaking in present tense but I haven't technically played this yet. Will have to report once I get around to doing it. This was all inspired bby the awesome new hand axe from the Dryad and the Demigod raid.

Raging swashbuckler has the disadvantage that it cannot use Precision. So you have an awesome crit profile but you're giving away fort bypass. I ran two raging swash lives, the later one was simply 17 barb / 3 bard; I ended up in shadowdancer for evasion.

[PrinceOfAsphodel]

Raging swashbuckler has the disadvantage that it cannot use Precision. So you have an awesome crit profile but you're giving away fort bypass. I ran two raging swash lives, the later one was simply 17 barb / 3 bard; I ended up in shadowdancer for evasion.

True! Thanks for the feedback. Shadowdancer gives free Grim Precision too, which is nice. I was also liking Dreadnaught for the axe bonuses. I'll probably end up trying a lot of things.

[Marshal_Lannes]

Ah, this is a Single Weapon Fighting Barb/Bard split? That's awesome! I actually designed something very similar about a month ago,

It is! I'm actually not using rage at all so I can run precision and cast spells from bard (mostly displacement when I get there). I'd like to hear how your variant goes. I'll be updating here as I run through mine.

[dennisck2]

I'll be updating here as I run through mine.

Thanks for the OP and please do! It sounds pretty fun, TBH. Thanks bud.

[kmoustakas]

Forgotten axe better than axe of the unseeing blow?

[Marshal_Lannes]

Alright, I'm up to L11, and here is what I've found. As expected, you are only above average DPS in that 7-9 level range. It's not like you're terrible, but if you've played a pure barbarian or THF paladin the DPS loss is noticeable because you don't have ITHF and strikethrough. Then again, those are popular levels with popular quests so if you're grouping it's only a minor inconvenience. I tried various SWF weapons in this range but none were worth using. Dueling Schlager from Tear being the best I guess but I use that term loosely. I got by with Maelstrom at 8 and 9. But then you hit 10 and everything changes.

First, let's talk about enhancements. You need your swashbuckling up by 10 and will need FB crit bonus up by 12 so here is what I've gone with:

FB - Core thru 3, Cracking attack through crazy strike 3, Diehard 1, Blood tribute 3, Blood trail/Supreme Cleave 3, Con 2, Extra action boost 1, Sprint 3. That comes to 30.

Swashbuckler - Core 2, Cutting Jibes (will save reduction if we get to GCS), On your toes 3, Deflect arrows, Doublestrike 1, Skirmisher.

I experimented with Exhausting Blow but I found the full cracking attack line is superior and fits in well as its fort reduction on a high crit build. By 10 you're also rocking blur, so you have that, blood tribute, frenzy, doublestrike clickie, and the Forgotten Ax profile is 15-20 x3 (FB will make it x5 at L12). You crit a ton, let me tell you. It's like having an SoS one-handed. Off-hand I'm using Crabshell Buckler from White Plume Mountain. I've slotted acid 3d6 in the Forgotten ax but haven't figured out what to put on the buckler.

Spell choices - L1 Expeditious retreat, feather fall, focusing chant, hypnotism (also reduces will saves) L2 - Blur, Cure Moderate Wounds, Heroism.

Feats have been - SWF, Precision, ISWF, IC Slash. L12 will be extend.

The Forgotten ax/Crabshell buckler combo has a very Norse look to it so while not specific to this build it is picturesque if you want to live out your Vikings fantasies. I'm pleased with how this played at 10 and it's seriously a huge jump in performance from 9 to 10.

Is this a HC viable build? Well, no because you need a Forgotten ax. But if you get one and have it banked then maybe. I've died twice - once in Heart of the Problem as noted before (but I don't run this on reaper in HC) and once at the end of STK part 2 running solo I pulled two champion shamans and two reapers. Unlucky, and I wouldn't be soloing that quest on reaper in HC. Was able to Jibbers and kill through it to finish. Haven't felt in danger since though and without pinpoint optimized gear I'm at mid-300 HPs (17 reaper points on this character) which along with a growing dodge, blur, and blood tribute makes it survivable. Deflect arrows is big too. That's noticeable in quests like Delera's and Spies in the House.

Forgotten axe better than axe of the unseeing blow?

I don't have Axe of the Unseen Blow so I can't test it, but it looks like the classic situation of whether you want to crit less but harder or crit more with less (x6 vs x5).

I'm excited to see how it progresses. The fighting style is a large departure from THF and a different game experience. You also have incredible tactical versatility in groups being able to raise dead, fascinate (still has it's uses in some quests to CC sections off), off-heal and front-line DPS.

[FuzzyDuck81]

The approach I used for mixing swashbuckler & barbarian was 13 bard, 5 barbarian, 2 fighter, tiefling scoundrel, primarily dex based using weapon finesse for to-hit then dex to damage from swashbuckler, tier 5 in FB for the +2 multiplier & then swashbuckling grants the threat with handaxes. I also added some points into vanguard to get stunning shield & missile shield & in the racial tree to get ash imprisonment (a couple of extra racial APs via tomes & past lives were involved, but not many). I run it in shadowdancer & being dex based it means evasion is decently functional, ditto consume, shadow lance & executioner's strike.

It's not as outright tough as a primarily barbarian build, but on the other hand since it doesn't use rage, spellcasting still works for buffs & some healing & it can benefit from precision. It also has a decent amount of crowd control & great attack speed. Running at cap, I was using the legendary forgotten handaxe initially which is really nice but now I've upgraded to the magmatic reaver from dryad & the demigod & WOW that thing hits like a truck with this kind of build (comparing with my pure barb ravager who's using legendary echo of blackrazor with an approx. BDR 115, magmatic handaxe is over 140) - it also has approx. 70% threat reduction thanks to shadowdancer plus the treachery filigree to help keep enemy attention off them & high fortification bypass (in the region of 80% iirc, will check once back at home) to make sure those tasty crits get through.

[Marshal_Lannes]

That's an interesting approach Fuzzyduck. I haven't really focused on the epic path here as this is only for a barbarian past life. There are several ways to map out this concept though and I like hearing what others have mapped out.

Well, I went through the proving ground of reaper Slavers with flying colors. Hit 12 so I have my +5 crit multiplier now. One thing I'm liking is you are seeing the power rise as you go big jump at 10 and now at 12 expecting a large jump as well. Also up over 500 HPs in reaper. Two other new observations, although you can be the main DPS, this build really excels as that 2nd DPS spot, especially if you have a sneak attack/deception item on. The attack speed crushes distracted mobs which is quite the swashy thing to do. Secondly, there isn't a great DR breaking option for constructs. Undead skeletons you can grab a Barovian light mace but constructs are a sticking point.

[dennisck2]

Snip

Dude, thanks for the update. This is sounding pretty fun, actually. I know it doesn't help much now, but when you hit Sharn you can craft a Syrian(?) weapon for a construct beater if you have the ingredients. Just a thought. Again, please keep updating.

[Marshal_Lannes]

Extremely fun levels in this 11-13 zone. I'm 14 now and the build plays quite well as I've hit all the "key" features; those being full crit profile to the Forgotten Ax and a full compliment of Bard spells. Level breakdown is now 7 bard/7 barbarian with barbarian the rest of the way. Level 7 bard adds the key displacement (extended 1:24) and good hope. You could take haste over good hope, really a matter of personal preference, and if u want to have another click to keep going. If you solo haste might be a better choice, if in a group good hope. But since spells aren't easy to swap for a bard and I like grouping I've gone with good hope.

Speaking of grouping, and full disclosure I have a green steel charisma skills item (helps for scrolls like Heal), but many a group is surprised to see a 600 HP Barbarian type being able to scroll anything. Tremendous versatility. Enhancements I've added are 1st core of Warchanter, for 1 AP the 1 point of CON is a no-brainer, resonant arms 2 (4d6 sonic scaling) core 3 swashy, doublestrike clickie up to 20%. We are at 53 points spent and since this is a TR build and we'll be holding 18 or 19 at most we are reaching our event horizon on what bells and whistles we want to complete our character with. Basically, you have a plethora of choices to customize how you want to play the character. I've gone STR but you have the ability to go CHA and if you go that route it makes sense to spend the 15 points for greater color spray (4 in spell slinger for magical training and 11 in feydark). I'm going to pass on that since I didn't build for CHA and there are other options I like vs a non-optimzied GSS.

Skills from the buffet include - going either 11 points in Ravager or Occult slayer. Both the 2 and 3 cores from either tree give you ample HPs and HAMP. Occult slayer probably fits in more with the spirit of this build since I'm basing it around one weapon and the whole weapon bonding thing has synergy there. You can get 10 HPs/+1 dmg from the 2nd WC core and it has some other useful low-hanging fruit there like enchant weapon and temp HPs. FB still has Tantrum (knocks down enemies on your supreme cleave) and that could be paired with Low Blow and Elegant Footwork (both knockdown effects) from swashbuckler. With displacement, three knockdowns, and guardbreaking you end with a whole bunch of situational melee crowd control. There are also some cool options from the Tiefling racials. I only have 2 racial APs here but for those who have more you can grab these. I might invest in them anyway - Obscuring mist makes you harder to hit with various bonuses and infernal resistance helps solve what I find to be the major weakness of the build - no elemental resistances.

Simply put, there is no easy way around this. I've asked every bard I've seen what they do and no one has a great solution. You can use resist wands or augments. Basically, you're not getting that 30 resistance without gear. Other than this, and it is an issue in some quests, it's a real smooth gameplay experience.

I picked up a Barovian light mace and that is excellent for skeleton undead types. Good idea on the Sharn crafted weapon for constructs, Dennis. I'll have to test those at 15, not sure what ML they are.

[PrinceOfAsphodel]

Forgotten axe better than axe of the unseeing blow?

I would say definitely not but the Axe of the Unseen Blow is a pain to farm out.

[PrinceOfAsphodel]

The approach I used for mixing swashbuckler & barbarian was 13 bard, 5 barbarian, 2 fighter, tiefling scoundrel, primarily dex based using weapon finesse for to-hit then dex to damage from swashbuckler, tier 5 in FB for the +2 multiplier & then swashbuckling grants the threat with handaxes. I also added some points into vanguard to get stunning shield & missile shield & in the racial tree to get ash imprisonment (a couple of extra racial APs via tomes & past lives were involved, but not many). I run it in shadowdancer & being dex based it means evasion is decently functional, ditto consume, shadow lance & executioner's strike.

It's not as outright tough as a primarily barbarian build, but on the other hand since it doesn't use rage, spellcasting still works for buffs & some healing & it can benefit from precision. It also has a decent amount of crowd control & great attack speed. Running at cap, I was using the legendary forgotten handaxe initially which is really nice but now I've upgraded to the magmatic reaver from dryad & the demigod & WOW that thing hits like a truck with this kind of build (comparing with my pure barb ravager who's using legendary echo of blackrazor with an approx. BDR 115, magmatic handaxe is over 140) - it also has approx. 70% threat reduction thanks to shadowdancer plus the treachery filigree to help keep enemy attention off them & high fortification bypass (in the region of 80% iirc, will check once back at home) to make sure those tasty crits get through.

The Magmatic Reaver is THE reason to play a Barbarian/Bard split, in my opinion. Interesting choice going Dex based though. If I weren't strength based I would probably go Intelligence and take 2 rogue over 2 fighter.

[Marshal_Lannes]

Well, I've finished my barbarian life and here are my final thoughts;

Not much to add on the pros to the build as I've covered most everything previously. The build continues to get beefier as you fill out your barbarian lives and take the 4th core in FB and 3rd core in OS. I took the 20% knockdown effect from OS on spell cast against you so we now have 4 potential knockdown effects. That's a lot of fun. I feel the build does start to plateau a bit by Sharn 2 though - you're still versatile and survivable the DPS starts to fall off in relation to other classes. Why? Well, you're still using a L10 weapon and L9 shield and while other classes have their core 4 abilities you don't (don't get FB core 4 until 19 - or 20 if you don't take 19). I played with good THF Paladins and FVS and they are simply better, there is no way around that. That's not to say you stop having fun, I enjoyed the swiss army knife capabilities and overall usefulness in a group but if you're looking for top-tier DPS this won't do it.

In conclusion, this build is lots of fun and offers a different gaming experience from THF. It's a way to play a barbarian while maintaining full healing capabilities, high defense, and universal scroll versatility. If that is something you're interested in, give it a shot and let me know how it goes for you. I'm going to try a Fighter/Bard version of this and will be taking that over to the Fighter section.

[dennisck2]

Thanks so much for this. I'm bookmarking this page so I can come back to it for my barb lives. Appreciate the great write-up.

[kmoustakas]

Simply put, there is no easy way around this. I've asked every bard I've seen what they do and no one has a great solution. You can use resist wands or augments. Basically, you're not getting that 30 resistance without gear. Other than this, and it is an issue in some quests, it's a real smooth gameplay experience.

Uhm, pharian buffs can cover you there. Just do a quick 15-20 minute run of tangleroot gorge. Yes you gotta replenish them every 30 minutes and they can be dispelled but you'll lose more time healing/dying/jibbering

[kmoustakas]

I would say definitely not but the Axe of the Unseen Blow is a pain to farm out.

Just buy off ASAH? It's bind on equip - although some people sell it too expensive, agreed.

[drunkbarbarian]

The Magmatic Reaver is THE reason to play a Barbarian/Bard split, in my opinion. Interesting choice going Dex based though. If I weren't strength based I would probably go Intelligence and take 2 rogue over 2 fighter.

Labrythine Edge is a pretty good reason for barb/bard split too.

[Marshal_Lannes]

Uhm, pharian buffs can cover you there. Just do a quick 15-20 minute run of tangleroot gorge. Yes you gotta replenish them every 30 minutes and they can be dispelled but you'll lose more time healing/dying/jibbering

I tend to base my observations on actual questing experiences. This is not practical in a game environment. You can't just jump out of the Stormhorns to go get House P buffs every 2nd quest. Even on a quest that's closer, by the time you went and buffed many parties will be halfway through the current quest as they aren't waiting for you unless you're in a static group. But in that situation (static), there is probably a party member who can cast resists on you anyway.