Randomized traps(easy to program); Skill addition and morde's disjunction tweak idea.

[Zeneath]

Randomized traps:

Many times I have been thinking about why traps in ddo are preset and not randomized, they make spot and listen pointless to a degree, so here is the idea to make them matter a bit more:
Everytime a quest is started, random traps according to level are present on the map. These traps are all mines or tripwires that work similarly to mines. They can spawn anywhere on the map before the game starts except within/near eachother(minimal distance of close range casting) and in case they spawn outside of map, they try to spawn on the map 10 more times or be gone from the quest. The number of these extra traps are equal to the level of the quest + the amount of players present - 1. When spotted and searched, these traps can be unlike standard traps be destroyed, HOWEVER deactivating them with a rogue gives +2% exp for each deactivated trap. With high enough Listen skill, these traps will play a little recognizable "click" sound when approached. Thes traps have a quest level*2 +3d6 spot and quest level*2 + 1d20 listen check, however their search check is equal to the quest level x 1.5 . These traps do NOT emit any kind of damage. These traps have different effects that have a DC equal to the quest level+1d6, these effects include: poison, diseases, curses, blindness(permament until cured), petrified(1 minute), stunned(20 seconds), Sleep(4 minutes), Charmed(30 seconds, this stuns you and makes you hostile towards your teammates/they can kill you). These effects only trigger on the person activating the trap. These traps can be saved against with a fortitude save, upon save you will be shaken.

I think that the exp bonus would make players feel the upsides of this patch meanwhile adding some difficulty to the game and interest to building for search, spot and listen outside of being a rogue. Also due to having high chance of traps spawning in the corners, etc. sometimes quests would be unchanged, sometimes they would feel like they are filled with traps making it a more dungeons and dragons like experience, meanwhile giving rogues the chance to play their character searching for traps in the corner.

Skill addition

Many skills in the game currently are underused so here are some ideas that would make them more likely to be picked over meta skills:

Swim - Swim could possibly add that you cast spells on the surface of the water with spell failure equal to 100+base spell failure-swim skill and in case you have underwater breathing(only spell, so no undead, etc.) you can cast verbal spells underwater with the same chance. This would spice up swim for quests that have water in them.

Listen - Having the listen skill up allows you to see enemies location through walls with their blank outline on your hud and a point on the minimap if they are within very short/standard/double range if your listen skill is equal to/2x higher /3x higher their move silently skill and they are not sneaking. It also allows you to target those enemies through a wall to prepare for an ambush.(so in case an enemy is not seen but you hear them, you can cast a spell on them without them knowing if the spell/sla can be cast through walls you can cast it on them without ever making direct sight).

Repair - This skill is used very much by warforged, but i still see uses for it rarely, so the idea to make repair more used is that repair should allow disarmed traps, etc. to be rearmed for enemies only with their DC being equal to the repair skill and their damage is modified by your rust spellpower.

Mordekainsen's disjunction:

For every item deactivated on the person at examination the number for items deactivated is listed for the duration in examination. This would be quite useful, since we don't know if they even have magical weapons/armor or not at all. https://ddowiki.com/page/Invulnerability states that enemies start to have +1 enchantment bonus items after Cr12+ but i never found anything about the monsters and items when searched mordekainsen's disjunction.

[Satyriasys]

They are phasing traps out of the game altogether because theyre too difficult for the general public to deal with. How long has it been since we've had a pack with an actual trap box in it? As in real life, the status quo will be determined by the lowest common denominator.

[Zeneath]

They are phasing traps out of the game altogether because theyre too difficult for the general public to deal with. How long has it been since we've had a pack with an actual trap box in it? As in real life, the status quo will be determined by the lowest common denominator.

And that is the reason why the average ddo player is 35 years old(talking from 2 years experience of asking average age of ddo players)

I am currently 20 years old and my main problem with the game is that to enjoy it, i must do many times something weird of a build, like "infinite self-revive monk cleric" etc. that after people look at me they think "Are you cheating bruh?"

These current traps are actually very VERY simple and most of the time I don't even need spot to find them they are so memorized, I just know where they are, which makes spot + listen very pointless to me in current state. With randomized traps that are not lethal/damaging/slowing we would get a more/new method that might make people use spells from clerics, etc. more like "Remove curse". I have NEVER used remove curse in the game, because i just went for the enchantment that removes everything. The above listed traps would only be a bonus if you are a trapper or mostly a mild nuisance. I mean most of the time if you approach an enemy, you already destroy that enemy before stepping into these traps. Poison makes you lose constitution --> most people have self-heals and you can always succeed a fort save poisons are one of the easiest things to save against; Curse --> you get a bit of a negative in your attack rolls, most people deal with it however it would be good if someone got rid of it. Most of the listed things are either mild nuisances or in case of petrify something that would be annoying, but hey there should be something that does that, i have never been petrified in the game after 9TRs, except once maybe by a beholder when i started the game, but that's it.

Anyway, I think that randomized traps that are not lethal/allow support users to feel more free would just increase the player numbers. I am a support player and I would feel better if I wouldn't have to just cast heal 99% of the time, but other spells as well. At first it was kind of interesting to me that "ohh remove curse! There are curses in the game?!" then went "ohh... Actually there are only 2-3 types of curses in the game out of which 1 is not something people are bothered about and that is the most common... and that happens once every 2 months on some newbie... that doesn't have saves...". However the solution to this is not things like "These will appear in a new quest!" but rather something that makes the presence of these abilities a possibility in every game. This trap system would both allow Trappers and Supports to feel more validated in the game and also it would bring awareness to the trapping bonuses.

[Amundir]

Having traps that do not do damage, to me, would just be annoying and in most cases wouldn't make thematic sense. Traps are supposed to protect stuff, and discourage thieves/enemies.

I'm already borderline angry with the stupid glue traps that enemies put down, even when you're in the process of beating on their azzes. Granted they are usually put down by guards which would allow them to shoot at you more while you run around slow, so it makes sense. But I still hate it.

And in general, wanting the dev team to go back through every quest and implement randomized traps is hardly an "easy to program" concept.

[Zeneath]

Having traps that do not do damage, to me, would just be annoying and in most cases wouldn't make thematic sense. Traps are supposed to protect stuff, and discourage thieves/enemies.

I'm already borderline angry with the stupid glue traps that enemies put down, even when you're in the process of beating on their azzes. Granted they are usually put down by guards which would allow them to shoot at you more while you run around slow, so it makes sense. But I still hate it.

And in general, wanting the dev team to go back through every quest and implement randomized traps is hardly an "easy to program" concept.

It is easy to program(because i have programmed games before...) mostly becuase they wouldn't have to go back quest by quest. I have stated the method but state it again. They could make it so that when ANY quest starts, traps would try to spawn on the map's area. REGARDLESS OF MAP. These traps would be generalized traps, not "unique" to the map. It is easy to program(because on a 2D program I already did it... many times as of home projects)

The reason why i mentioned "poison" and "curse" traps is because they make A MINOR nuisance, not something like a slow or damage would and they can still be saved against very normall if you are lvl 30 you need a 36DC on fortitude MAX as of my mentioning.

Try to read the post again and then comment... Also what you mentioned is like cartoon told to a kid. Kids think that cartoons are drawn clip by clip(in your example quest by quest) instead of being automated. Cartoons are automated with tweening in other words "animation" which makes parts of it move without much effort, however it is more simplistic in a way. The same thing here could apply you make traps that appear in every quest, regardless of type but make them simple, easy to save against and something that gives the opportunity for support players to use their abilities. The problem in ddo is for example(in my opinion) that quests are made hand by hand. To a degree it is okay, because you cannot expect AI to make maps for you, however traps, npcs and other things could be handled by an AI. Traps are easier to do than AI, because they can all be similar. AI however in ddo is very strictly based on where the enemies are as of domains/planes so it cannot generate scorpions in waterworks for example. That's why i explained how generalized traps are a possibility and not AI. AI would be difficulty. Making a mine that applies a different effect but looks same and is possible similarly on all planes is not difficult.

[Amundir]

It is easy to program(because i have programmed games before...) mostly becuase they wouldn't have to go back quest by quest. I have stated the method but state it again. They could make it so that when ANY quest starts, traps would try to spawn on the map's area. REGARDLESS OF MAP. These traps would be generalized traps, not "unique" to the map. It is easy to program(because on a 2D program I already did it... many times as of home projects)

You're making an assumption about one games programming, based on your experience(s) with programming with another game. You have no way of factually knowing if it is that easy or not. For all you, or I, know, that would involve them touching every quest.

I also am a developer, and can also just as easily speculate that this would be difficult. So we have your 'its easy' speculation and my 'it could be hard' speculation, both without any actual facts (in context of the actual DDO code) to go behind them for proof.

[DYWYPI]

There are already randomised traps or Control Panels within DDO and in some quests "Trapper" style monsters deploy booby-traps if you leave them alive long enough, etc. The Listen skill isn't used to find traps I assume you meant to write: Spot and Search in various places. Whereas proposed Listen could be used to hear an "activated trigger".

I'm presuming you don't normally play pure Rogues. The Search DC values you are suggesting are rather low. Currently Level 15 quests on Elite would likely have a base Search 46 - for older content - albeit with your suggestion the [Search] DC would be around 22-23. At level 20, you're suggesting a Search DC of around 30 whereas typically the current Search DCs on Elite are around 59! Remember anyone can find traps under Search DC: 20.

In other words - using your loose figures - even first life none INT based Rogues wouldn't likely even need to equip any items to Search for such "new randomised mines" for quest level 15. In general pure Rogues aren't Wisdom based and don't tend to invest heavily in Listen. Spot, like Listen; are Wisdom based, and Rogues are one of the few classes that are not native casters - and dump WIS.

Mines also can be easily found by simplify running into them and tend to be one of the most boring types of trap to disarm, perhaps you'd enjoy going for 'Tamper bonus' - the lowest bonus - in: Undermine?

I exclusively play pure Rogues, when on my home server and wouldn't support the addition of more randomly placed bear traps or mines (as proposed). Harder hitting traps, or better positioned and more difficult to bypass, I would certainly support, e.g. Haunted Halls of Eveningstar, etc. No, I wouldn't support the idea for such new randomly placed mines. I would agree that it seems; newer adventure packs don't have many traps with Control panels or not even that many traps present.

Having randomly placed traps rarely improves the trapping experience for the Rogue within a PUG, if anything it just wastes more time for the Rogue. So the Rogue ends up having to spend additional time disabling traps instead. Who is going to be disabling the traps; well (traditionally) it's going to be the Rogue or Artificer, so they are the ones that get held-up (or hit by the proposed trap effects) and not the rest of the group.

I loosely understand where you are coming from, but in reality its unlikely it would achieve would you are hoping. :-)

[Zeneath]

There are already randomised traps or Control Panels within DDO and in some quests "Trapper" style monsters deploy booby-traps if you leave them alive long enough, etc. The Listen skill isn't used to find traps I assume you meant to write: Spot and Search in various places. Whereas proposed Listen could be used to hear an "activated trigger".

I'm presuming you don't normally play pure Rogues. The Search DC values you are suggesting are rather low. Currently Level 15 quests on Elite would likely have a base Search 46 - for older content - albeit with your suggestion the [Search] DC would be around 22-23. At level 20, you're suggesting a Search DC of around 30 whereas typically the current Search DCs on Elite are around 59! Remember anyone can find traps under Search DC: 20.

In other words - using your loose figures - even first life none INT based Rogues wouldn't likely even need to equip any items to Search for such "new randomised mines" for quest level 15. In general pure Rogues aren't Wisdom based and don't tend to invest heavily in Listen. Spot, like Listen; are Wisdom based, and Rogues are one of the few classes that are not native casters - and dump WIS.

Mines also can be easily found by simplify running into them and tend to be one of the most boring types of trap to disarm, perhaps you'd enjoy going for 'Tamper bonus' - the lowest bonus - in: Undermine?

I exclusively play pure Rogues, when on my home server and wouldn't support the addition of more randomly placed bear traps or mines (as proposed). Harder hitting traps, or better positioned and more difficult to bypass, I would certainly support, e.g. Haunted Halls of Eveningstar, etc. No, I wouldn't support the idea for such new randomly placed mines. I would agree that it seems; newer adventure packs don't have many traps with Control panels or not even that many traps present.

Having randomly placed traps rarely improves the trapping experience for the Rogue within a PUG, if anything it just wastes more time for the Rogue. So the Rogue ends up having to spend additional time disabling traps instead. Who is going to be disabling the traps; well (traditionally) it's going to be the Rogue or Artificer, so they are the ones that get held-up (or hit by the proposed trap effects) and not the rest of the group.

I loosely understand where you are coming from, but in reality its unlikely it would achieve would you are hoping. :-)

I played mostly rogue so you are wrong, i have +int; disable device and search for almost EVERY LEVEL(cannith crafted). The reason i gave low search and spot DCs for these traps are actually simple, i didn't want them to be a "rogue only" traps. I wanted them to be traps that can be found and destroyed before being activated by normal players, HOWEVER rogues that disable the traps give +2% exp to quest. And yes the booby trap deployers are my nightmares as a rogue because if you are on a quest where there are traps, disable all traps, get ingenious bonus and they deploy just a few that your teammates walk into, your bonus is basically gone.(Yes, your ingenious will be lost like the no death bonus). So i would like to add those to the category of +2% exp for disabled traps, but then it should have a limit of max 30% or so.

But yeah, those DCs could be changed, I have given them because for a normal player at lvl 30 you would need a search DC of 45, which might not be enough for some people(who are apparently not rogues!) because after 20 traps become difficult traps but if the quest level is just 13 then they can be disabled by ANY player. The spot is only ridicliously high, because if you are not a rogue, you have to invest a LOT of points into spot to spot traps before they are a threat to you.

Again, these traps are NOT for rogues, these traps are for all support based classes. So players with high spot, like a cleric with high wisdom and trapfinding might spot these traps and prepare their spells/destroy the trap. Or if you are not a cleric but something else that can remove curses/petrify(stone to flesh still exists for wizards wow!) you might have to use those spells in the future.

Just because an idea is different don't assume someone is not aware of things that are in-game. I am very well aware myself of what is currently in the game, i had disable device 125 on my rogue life last time and it wasn't even in focus for me to go that high. But again, you also didn't read what i state, because you thought i said mines, well in a manner yes and no, because no they DO NOT DEAL ANY DAMAGE. Technically from programming point of view for me all traps currently in the game look similar to mines. You go in their area and get a trigger. That's why i said tripwires, etc. I don'T neccessarily meant mines that blow up, but rather things that are not locked in place, however mines are the main thing that could be programmed easily in the game first as a "test" not to upset people.

I mean with randomized traps most would end up in corners so even at lvl 30 you would have like 5% chance of actually encountering a trap if not specifically searched for. But again.

But again who wants to read and actually think about an idea here? This is a forum we do not do that here...

Edit:
Btw how you got the value of 22-23 DC for traps at lvl 20? I literally stated in the post that it would be quest lvl x 1.5 --> 30, the DC of the search for those traps would be 30.

[Seph1roth5]

They are phasing traps out of the game altogether because theyre too difficult for the general public to deal with. How long has it been since we've had a pack with an actual trap box in it? As in real life, the status quo will be determined by the lowest common denominator.

Ummm pretty sure you have it backwards lol. They make changes based on the top 1%. Do you really think monks, inquisitives, bows, meteor swarm, etc. were all changed because joe schmoes were just so strong?

[Satyriasys]

Ummm pretty sure you have it backwards lol. They make changes based on the top 1%. Do you really think monks, inquisitives, bows, meteor swarm, etc. were all changed because joe schmoes were just so strong?

I have no idea what point you are making but I dont think it was the "top 1%" dying in the ice traps in Korthos.

[Zeneath]

I have no idea what point you are making but I dont think it was the "top 1%" dying in the ice traps in Korthos.

Just to know, I started playing about 3 years ago and never thought a single a time that there is a single soul who could actually DIE on korthos. I never did.

[DYWYPI]

It's coming across like you were focusing a lot on XP, if you are concerned with Bonus percentages regarding "Disarming traps (Party)".

[...] my nightmares as a rogue because if you are on a quest where there are traps, disable all traps, get ingenious bonus and they deploy just a few that your teammates walk into, your bonus is basically gone. ...

In other words; you are saying you currently dislike randomised (numbers) of traps because you won't get an ‘Experience bonus' when the "booby-trap" is triggered rather than disabled. Many booby-traps actually end up getting stuck in scenery, e.g. under floors and thus cannot even be disabled... You'll be aware of that fact if you've been in Wheloon.

I didn't focus too much on your DC values as I appreciated you weren't sure about what Trap DCs that you would use, and hence I didn't bother talking about Spot.

[...] So players with high spot, like a cleric with high wisdom and trapfinding might spot these traps and prepare their spells/destroy the trap. Or if you are not a cleric but something else that can remove curses/petrify(stone to flesh still exists for wizards wow!) you might have to use those spells in the future.

So basically you are creating Explosive "breakable barrels" rather than one-single-shot use mines, which in essence are the same thing, i.e. they fire once (and are removed).

[...] But again, you also didn't read what i state, because you thought i said mines, well in a manner yes and no, because no they DO NOT DEAL ANY DAMAGE..

Did you consider your audience may have a learning disorder that involves difficulty reading due to problems identifying speech sounds and learning how they relate to letters and words (decoding)?

[...] they DO NOT DEAL ANY DAMAGE. ...

I was originally fully aware you weren't talking directly about HP damage you were loosely talking about "debuff" or annoying type "Condition" effects like: Blindness, Paralysis, Slow, Otto's Irresistible Dance, Sleep, etc.

I just chose not to comment on the "conditions" you suggested. But, if you want my personal opinion, I strongly dislike being: slowed, disease, cursed, blinded, or "danced", etc. I'd more rather take straight potential damage or "auto death" in most cases. Aside: I also loathe Mummy rot. ;-)

[...] Harder hitting traps, or better positioned and more difficult to bypass, I would certainly support, e.g. Haunted Halls of Eveningstar, etc. No, I wouldn't support the idea for such new randomly placed mines. ...

Perhaps you were unaware I was also using the word "mine" as a placeholder, as that's how loosely you described them above. I could have easily have said "[...] No, I wouldn't support the idea for such new randomly placed [widgets]."

[...] Technically from programming point of view for me all traps currently in the game look similar to mines. ...

What you should take away from that is: don't jump to conclusions; I knew that you didn't explicitly mean conventional "mines" per se.

[...] But again who wants to read and actually think about an idea here? This is a forum we do not do that here... ...

Criticism is the disapproval of people, not for having faults, but having faults different from your own.

[...] Btw how you got the value of 22-23 DC for traps at lvl 20? I literally stated in the post that it would be quest lvl x 1.5 --> 30, the DC of the search for those traps would be 30.

I clearly stated Level 15 on Elite would be ~[22-23]; I think you better reread what I wrote:

[...] Currently Level 15 quests on Elite would likely have a base Search 46 - for older content - albeit with your suggestion the [Search] DC would be around 22-23. ...

Calculation: 15 (Level) multiplied by [1.5] (your multiplier value) = 22.5 (~22-23).

[...] At level 20, you're suggesting a Search DC of around 30 whereas typically the current Search DCs on Elite are around 59! ...

Again, where did I disagree at Level: 20, for the new "trap widgets" using your [x1.5] multiplier wasn't a DC of 30? You either misread or misunderstood what I said because I clearly wrote in black-and-white around: 30. :-)

It's looking like you took my constructive criticism far too personally, and for some bizarre reason went on the defensive. That's probably the disadvantage of the internet you couldn't tell I'm straight talking (honest). Going from your response(s) - to me - there was a lot of crossed wires. Therefore I've decided to go through your response to my post in greater detail.

When I play a Rogue, I play it for enjoyment, not to spend all day paralysed by traps. I tend to think holistically, things should be studied as a whole and not just as a sum of their parts.

Take care