Trying to build a self-sufficient mid-reaper Paladin

[Dworkin_of_Amber]

Ok, the Past Life grind is finally done, so I am looking to thresh out build options, and need some feedback. I am trying to spec out a THF Paladin build that can solo or duo mid-reapers without a dedicated healer. Putting together input from a bunch of other posts, here's where I am, but I would like some input/feedback. I am not locked in on anything in the build below, but this is what I have come up with, so any positive feedback or alternate suggestions welcome

Goals:
Maximize DPS (not a Tank build)
Solo Capable for mid-Reaper (self-healing)
Group Capable for high-Reaper

Assumptions:
+8 Supreme Tome
Triple Completionist
All Iconics available, +1 Heart Build ok
~14 Reaper Points right now, using this build to start farming Reaper points


Build Idea:

Race: Aasimar
Aasimar was chosen for the LoH and regenerating LoH, but I am not locked into. I know Wood-Elf is higher damage, but I can’t figure out how to get sufficient self-healing
Starting Stats: 12, 8, 18, 8, 10, 18 (All Level-Ups in CHA)
Bond: Fallen
Diety: Blood of Vol


Feats in no particular order, as I am not worried about the leveling experience:

Force of Personality, Completionist, THF-line, Power Attack, Overwhelming Critical, Extra Turning, Perfect THF, Perfect TWF, Blinding Speed, Holy Strike, Scion of Arborea

One open Feat is undecided... WF: Slashing? Precision? Something else???


Goggles: Leg. Collective Sight (WIS, Ins CHA) {Slotted Dodge 12%}
Helm: Titania's Glory {Slotted Underwater Action}
Necklace: Leg. Family Recruit Sigil {Slotted Draconic Soul Gem}
Trinket: Bloodrage Chrism {Slotted Good Luck +2, Epic Litany of the Dead}
Cloak: Leg. Cloak of Summer {Slotted Resistance +12}
Belt: Leg. Belt of the Ram {Slotted Protection +12}
Gloves: Leg. Hammerfist {Slotted Hit Points +48}
Boots: Slavers Crafted (Sheltering +45, Deception +14, Shatter +20, Quality CHA +4) {Slotted: Globe of True Imperial Blood}
Bracers: Brightlord, the Sigil of the Flame {Slotted Festive CHA +2, Greater Heroism, Natural Armor +12}
Armor: Leg. Enforcer's Coat {Slotted Power +261}
Quiver: Epic Quiver of Alacrity
Weapon: The Reflection of Blackrazor {Slotted Deconstructor, Ruby of Silver}
Filigrees: Prowess 5-piece, Shattered Device 4-piece, To Hell and Back 3-piece, Embraced by the Light 2-piece, Bravery Throughout 2-piece, Shattered Device 2-piece
--- Prowess: Attack & Damage, Critical Attack & Damage, Strength, Melee Power x2
--- Shattered Device: Armor Piercing, Melee Power
--- Bravery Throughout/Shattered Device: PRR x2
--- To Hell and Back: Charisma
--- To Hell and Back/Embraced by the Light: Charisma x2

Enhancements: 80 APs, Racial 15, Universal 1
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Aasimar - Points spent: 19
1 Core ·(1) Stronger Bonds I
2 Core ·(2) Ability I: +1 Charisma
3 Core ·(1) Stronger Bonds II
4 Core ·(2) Ability II: +1 Charisma
5 Core ·(1) Stronger Bonds III
6 Tier1 (2) Improved Recovery I
7 Tier1 (1) Fight the Wicked I
8 Tier2 (1) Fight the Wicked II
9 Tier3 (1) Fight The Wicked III
10 Tier3 (2) Improved Recovery II
11 Tier2 (1) Divine Purpose: Divine Purpose: Fallen
12 Tier4 (1) Celestial Tutelage: Magical Training
13 Tier4 (2) Improved Recovery III
14 Tier4 (1) Ascendant Bond: Fallen
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Knight of the Chalice - Points spent: 44
1 Core ·(1) Slayer of Evil I
2 Tier1 (1) Extra Smite
3 Tier1 (1) Improved Second Strikes
4 Tier1 (1) Improved Second Strikes
5 Tier1 (1) Improved Second Strikes
6 Core ·(1) Courage of Heaven
7 Tier2 (1) Divine Might
8 Tier2 (1) Divine Might
9 Tier2 (1) Divine Might
10 Tier2 (1) Action Boost: Melee/Ranged Power
11 Tier2 (1) Action Boost: Melee/Ranged Power
12 Tier2 (1) Action Boost: Melee/Ranged Power
13 Core ·(1) Slayer of Evil II
14 Tier3 (2) Holy Combatant II
15 Tier3 (2) Exalted Smite: Exalted Smite
16 Tier3 (2) Exalted Smite: Exalted Smite
17 Tier3 (2) Exalted Smite: Exalted Smite
18 Tier3 (2) Ability I: +1 Charisma
19 Tier4 (2) Knight's Training
20 Tier4 (1) Censure Demons
21 Tier4 (2) Vigor of Life I
22 Tier4 (1) Improved Turning
23 Tier4 (1) Improved Turning
24 Tier4 (1) Improved Turning
25 Tier4 (2) Ability II: +1 Charisma
26 Core ·(1) Improved Courage of Heaven
27 Core ·(1) Slayer of Evil III
28 Tier5 (2) Ascendancy
29 Tier5 (1) Censure Outsiders
30 Tier5 (2) Vigor of Life II
31 Tier5 (2) Avenging Attack: Avenging Cleave
32 Tier5 (1) Holy Retribution: Holy Retribution
33 Core ·(1) Champion of Good
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Falconry - Points spent: 24
1 Core ·(1) Summon Falcon: Summon White Falcon
2 Tier1 (1) Out in Nature
3 Tier1 (1) Out in Nature
4 Tier1 (1) Out in Nature
5 Tier1 (1) Rugged
6 Core ·(2) Ability I: Charisma
7 Tier2 (1) Diving Attack: Diving Strike
8 Tier2 (1) Diving Attack: Diving Strike
9 Tier2 (1) Diving Attack: Diving Strike
10 Tier3 (1) Strike for the Eyes: Strike for the Eyes
11 Tier3 (1) Strike for the Eyes: Strike for the Eyes
12 Tier3 (1) Strike for the Eyes: Strike for the Eyes
13 Tier3 (2) Conditioning
14 Core ·(1) Well Rounded I
15 Tier1 (1) Hunter's Knowledge
16 Tier2 (1) Action Boost: Sprint
17 Tier2 (1) Action Boost: Sprint
18 Tier2 (1) Action Boost: Sprint
19 Tier4 (1) No Mercy
20 Tier4 (1) No Mercy
21 Tier4 (1) No Mercy
22 Tier4 (1) Expose Weakness
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Feydark Illusionist - Points spent: 9
1 Core ·(1) Find Familiar: White Tressym
2 Tier1 (2) Familiar's Flourish I
3 Tier1 (2) Illusory Weaponry
4 Tier2 (2) Familiar's Flourish II
5 Core ·(2) Ability I: Charisma



Active Destiny Tree
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fatesinger - Points spent: 25
1 Core ·(0)· Repertoire
2 Core ·(0) Glitter of Fame
3 Core ·(0) Harmonic Resonance
4 Core ·(0) Intoxicating Presence
5 Core ·(0) Grandeur
6 Core ·(0) Majesty
7 Tier1 (1) First Harmonic Chord
8 Tier1 (1) First Harmonic Chord
9 Tier1 (1) First Harmonic Chord
10 Tier1 (2) Ability I: +1 Charisma
11 Tier2 (1) Bound Fate
12 Tier2 (1) Bound Fate
13 Tier2 (1) Bound Fate
14 Tier3 (1) Grim Fate
15 Tier3 (1) Grim Fate
16 Tier3 (1) Grim Fate
17 Tier2 (2)· Ability II: +1 Charisma
18 Tier4 (2) Martial Hymn
19 Tier3 (2) Ability III: +1 Charisma
20 Tier4 (2) Ability IV: +1 Charisma
21 Tier5 (1) Bladesong
22 Tier6 (1) Metamagic Attunement II: Quicken
23 Tier6 (1) Turn of the Tide
24 Tier5 (2) Ability V: +1 Charisma
25 Tier5 (1) The Fith Chord
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Twists of fate - 40 of 40 Fate points spent.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Twist 1 - Tier 4: Fury of the Wild: Sense Weakness
Twist 2 - Tier 3: Shadowdancer: Meld Into Darkness
Twist 3 - Tier 2: Divine Crusader: Confront Any Foe
Twist 4 - Tier 2: Grandmaster of Flowers: Running with Wind
Twist 5 - Tier 1: Grandmaster of Flowers: A Dance of Flowers





Things I know are missing and not sure where to put:
Devotion (for LoH), Melee Alacrity



If my thought are right, with just 14 Reaper points in Grim Barricade, and only Ship buffs and my own case spells/songs/buff (no pots or any other situational) Stats should be: 73, 31, 72, 28, 53, 104. Yes, I know that 3 of those are odd numbers, but as I get more Reaper points, they can even out.
But overall, I am open to suggestions.

[LiveFast]

LoH do not benefit from devotion and just use an augment for melee alacrity. With that you can drop blinding speed. Dire charge at 29. Drop underwater action and sapphire of false life since you get +81 from enforcer coat. As for CAF well its been badly nerfed...So if you don't use CAF you can drop extra turning no? If you have a free feat its either bonus to attack/damage or you might want to consider maximize for your cure spells since you want to be self sufficient in mid reaper.

[Dworkin_of_Amber]

LoH do not benefit from devotion and just use an augment for melee alacrity. With that you can drop blinding speed. Dire charge at 29. Drop underwater action and sapphire of false life since you get +81 from enforcer coat. As for CAF well its been badly nerfed...So if you don't use CAF you can drop extra turning no? If you have a free feat its either bonus to attack/damage or you might want to consider maximize for your cure spells since you want to be self sufficient in mid reaper.

I wasn't aware the Confront Any Foe was nerfed... ok, so then the feats would change. I am guessing here on WF:Slash, Precision, & Maximize?
Again, I am not worried about levelling process, so not locked in on the order of the feats.

1) Force of Personality
1) Follower of Vol
1) Fallen Bond
3) Completionist
6) THF
9) IC: Slashing
12) Improved THF
15) Greater THF
18) Power Attack
21) Overwhelming Critical
24) Weapon Focus: Slashing ???
26) Perfect THF
27) Precision ???
28) Perfect TWF
29) Dire Charge
30) Maximize Spell ???
30) Scion of Arborea

Dropping the Hit Points augment and adding Swiftness 15% (Never realized that was an available augment).
Drop Underwater Action for Devotion +139 for self-healing spells.

Once I nail down the changes better, I will update the OP.

[M0rfeo]

I wasn't aware the Confront Any Foe was nerfed... ok, so then the feats would change. I am guessing here on WF:Slash, Precision, & Maximize?
Again, I am not worried about levelling process, so not locked in on the order of the feats.

1) Force of Personality
1) Follower of Vol
1) Fallen Bond
3) Completionist
6) THF
9) IC: Slashing
12) Improved THF
15) Greater THF
18) Power Attack
21) Overwhelming Critical
24) Weapon Focus: Slashing ???
26) Perfect THF
27) Precision ???
28) Perfect TWF
29) Dire Charge
30) Maximize Spell ???
30) Scion of Arborea

Dropping the Hit Points augment and adding Swiftness 15% (Never realized that was an available augment).
Drop Underwater Action for Devotion +139 for self-healing spells.

Once I nail down the changes better, I will update the OP.

Hello,
for Feydark Illusionist enha tree, you need Magical Training feat

[Dworkin_of_Amber]

Hello,
for Feydark Illusionist enha tree, you need Magical Training feat

Correct.
12 Tier4 (1) Celestial Tutelage: Magical Training

This Enhancement grants the Magical Training feat.

[Tilomere]

But overall, I am open to suggestions.

Don't be melee. Make a VKF thrower, 14 paladin, 6 ranger. DWS/VKF w/ paladin buff spells (zeal, prayer, bless, charge), LGS Dust main hand from Sharn, and Soulrazor offhand. We'll keep Aasimar but make it a scourge for ghost touch, and toss the melee. It's nerfed anyways.

Soulrazor 20 MP + Fervor swap 19 MP + 30 MP extra in FoTW + Prowess sometimes 50 MP swap means that you will be generally using IPS with substantially higher MP than RP, so you should use a feywild set with it, that boosts both doubleshot and melee power.

==================================================
Update 48.4 Basic Bug Mitigation Paladin, first life capable.

Main: Sharn LGS Dust Thrower, Augment Deconstructor and Byshk
Offhand: Soulrazor
Raid DPS Offhand: Summer Shield
Raid Tank offhand: Crystalline Ward (Potency, I MRR, Q MRR) (also used to self-heal if you run out of hands)
Goggles Tinker Int, Melee Alacrity, I Deception Q Deception
Armor Summer Fort, Q. Seek, PRR, Parry
Raid Tank armor: Tempest Spine (sheltering, parry, fort)
Bracers Suulo Imp. Deception, Deception, Ass, I. Ass
Ring1 Mind and Matter Dead, Acc, Ins. Dex
Helm Summer Con
Neck Summer Cha, HAmp
Trinket Suulo Resistance, Q. Con (Artifact)
Cloak Summer Str, I Str, DS
Belt Slave Lords Sheltering Armpen, TS, Q Dex
Raid tank belt: Many Pouched of Healer (Speed, +Lore, I Devotion, Q. Devotion) Augment: Sheltering (also used to self-heal if you run out of hands)
Ring2 Summer Stunning, Boosts, I Armpen, I Con
Boots Summer Combat Mastery, Seeker,
Gloves Tinker Dex, Reflex, I Seeker, Q Seeker
Quiver: Epic Dynamistic Quiver: Doubleshot Epic Purifying for blunt DR swap.

Augments: Swiftness, G. Heroism, Wis, Ins. Wis/Cha/Int, Litany, Globe, Wiz, Poison, Blind, Gift, Dodge, Invisibility gaurd, petrification immunity, artifact dex in belt, soulrazor, and Ring1.

Sentience: Armor pen, some fortification, some hamp, some melee power.

Sets:
Suulo: Doublestrike/Doubleshot, Sheltering
Tinker: Melee/Ranged Power, Fort Bypass
Summer: Tactics, Helpless, Doublestrike/Doubleshot, fort bypass, melee ranged power (raid shield)
Mind and Matter: Not filled in.

Feats: 6 Ranger > 14 Pali
1 : Simple Thrown Expertise
2: Rapid Shot (Ranger Free)
3 : Point Blank Shot
4: Precise Shot (Ranger Free)
6 : Multitude of Missiles
9 : Improved Critical: Thrown
12 : Improved Precise Shot
15 : Precision
18 : Completionist
21 Epic : Overwhelming Critical
24 Epic : Combat Archery
26 Cold Iron
27 Emp. Healing
28 Destiny: Doubleshot
29 Destiny: Harbinger of Chaos
30 Epic : Quicken Spell
30 Legend : Scion of: Arborea

AP: (racial ap take more stuffs of choice, I'd go move speed in SaD)
7 KoTC DM, Smite Evil Charges
41 VKF (melee power to thrown, quick draw, stuffs)
11 DWS Sniper, dex to dmg
21+1 Tome Falconry Armor Pen
7 racial Scourge Hands, Ghost touch

Stats: Max + Levels Dex, decent others. Lawful Good. Aasimar Scourge

Skills: keep moving, oh, and whatever you want. Max balance for some knockdown attacks. I guess some UMD and heal never hurt, or spot, or intim. Well, intim kinda hurts, but sometimes you want the pain.

[Tilomere]

Don't be melee.

I forgot, the reason you don't go melee is that solo R6 mobs hit through 300+ PRR/200+ MRR for 800/2 sec without debuffs, 700/2 sec with debuffs, and at 80% self-healing penalty, you need 4k self healing/2 sec, which a paladin doesn't have access to. A WF arti, bf sorc/wiz, undead wiz, Druid, cleric, fvs, or alc, sure. Paladin has cure serious though. Cure serious doesn't hit for 4k/2 sec.



You might be able to clear some shorter dungeons with lots of shrines and mobs vulnerable to dire charge with LoH charges, caster red names with spell absorb, or dungeons without red names, but it doesn't generally cut it.

Now the reason you make a paladin 14/ranger 6 is that the game is heavily bugged, and one of those bugs is that the bonus to hit for sneak attacks doesn't work. This is reducing to-hit for melee and ranged attacks by around 30-40 by end game. For example, see picture where my acrobat is is not getting the additional +33 to-hit for sneak attacks, despite sneak attacking for 500+:



This means you miss another 25% of your attacks, unless you can make up for that accuracy by:
1 Be ranged so you are safer so you can glass cannon and stack more accuracy and stats and just live longer to dps at reduced levels
2 Be a paladin/ranger with bless + prayer and full BaB (base attack bonus), or some other method of having full BaB.
3 Be a paladin for Divine Might, which has insightful accuracy in trance, while an acrobat for example only has access to trances without insightful accuracy.
4 Be strength based, because strength is higher than any other stat, and you need the to-hit. Plus if your not strength or dex based, you'll just die in trips 100-0 more often.

However, you don't want to be a KoTC THF paladin because blessed purpose is bugged, leaving you with insufficient melee power in most reaper dungeons, and spell power augmenting weapons doesn't implement them bug, leaving you with insufficient spell power for self-healing for melee, and CAF is bugged and now basically removed from the game. You also don't want to be a KoTC THF melee paladin, because all the bugs herded others into over-playing it, and it overperformed and was quite amusingly nerfed into the ground due to mitigating accuracy game bugs with paladin spells and full BaB, and spell power self-healing game bugs with healing hands.

So the thrower above is another method to mitigate and work-around bug, stacked on top of bug, on top of bug, on top of another bug. If you want a melee, you make this. This has 4k/2 sec self healing, spell casting implement that works, and an enhancement tree that actually works, and enough to-hit bonuses to ignore the loss of deception to-hit.

Edit: Just Business takes 31 mins on R6, but it also has more mobs that are all tougher than the entirety of RL Chain 1.





This will be much faster on the paladin thrower I designed for you. Wizard is able to sustain 4k/2 sec for more than half an hour with 2 shrines and mana globes. Good luck doing that on a melee paladin.

Amusingly, paladin isn't tough enough for R6 solo melee. You need to make a wizard. Bahahahaha!

[PrinceOfAsphodel]

However, you don't want to be a KoTC THF paladin because blessed purpose is bugged, leaving you with insufficient melee power in most reaper dungeons, and spell power augmenting weapons doesn't implement them bug, leaving you with insufficient spell power for self-healing for melee. You also don't want to be a KoTC THF melee paladin, because all the bugs herded others into over-playing it, and it overperformed and was quite amusingly nerfed into the ground due to mitigating accuracy game bugs with paladin spells and full BaB, and spell power self-healing game bugs with healing hands.

I hadn't played melee builds at a high enough level to realize the accuracy bug. Interesting. Why do you say it Paladin was nerfed into the ground? Wouldn't your THF Eldritch Knight be affected by the same THF and CAF nerfs?

[LiveFast]

'Ok, the Past Life grind is finally done, so I am looking to thresh out build options, and need some feedback. I am trying to spec out a THF Paladin build that can solo or duo mid-reapers without a dedicated healer.'

Strange reply from Tilo: 'Don't be melee. Make a VKF thrower, 14 paladin, 6 ranger. DWS/VKF w/ paladin buff spells (zeal, prayer, bless, charge), LGS Dust main hand from Sharn, and Soulrazor offhand. We'll keep Aasimar but make it a scourge for ghost touch, and toss the melee. It's nerfed anyways.' Did he ask for advice on a thrower paladin splash build? No. Why not just delete your post from here and start a new thread of your own? I'm not saying your build isn't viable i'm just saying its in the wrong thread.

After playing ranged for a bit after alchemist came out, all my toons are now melees and i'm having a lot of fun. Go for it. And yes I play mid-reapers+ and survive. Sometimes I steal the kill count against ranged/alchemists/sorcs. With 14 reaper points don't expect to solo mid reapers on a melee though XD. 2-3 players group makes it possible but you know that since you stated 'solo or duo' in OP. Beware of those posts for solo mid-high reapers. Totally doable but sometimes its 3-4 times longer to solo a quest than simply going duo with your friend or to party with pugs. Spending 50 mins solo in Just Business must be a nightmare, no? lol

The thing about accuracy should also be moved to another section of the forums. since you are displaying a bug you should post in report a bug no?

The accuracy in your screenshot is VERY low. My THF near first-lifer has 160 to-hit.

EDIT: I just logged and its 164 standing outside reaper BUT I have 1 fighter past life and use 3X ancient power EPL

[LiveFast]

I wasn't aware the Confront Any Foe was nerfed... ok, so then the feats would change. I am guessing here on WF:Slash, Precision, & Maximize?
Again, I am not worried about levelling process, so not locked in on the order of the feats.

1) Force of Personality
1) Follower of Vol
1) Fallen Bond
3) Completionist
6) THF
9) IC: Slashing
12) Improved THF
15) Greater THF
18) Power Attack
21) Overwhelming Critical
24) Weapon Focus: Slashing ???
26) Perfect THF
27) Precision ???
28) Perfect TWF
29) Dire Charge
30) Maximize Spell ???
30) Scion of Arborea

Dropping the Hit Points augment and adding Swiftness 15% (Never realized that was an available augment).
Drop Underwater Action for Devotion +139 for self-healing spells.

Once I nail down the changes better, I will update the OP.

I'm no expert but it looks good. Precision is a must have IMO. Ruby of devotion combined with a belt swap for Many pouched belt of the healer for heals is a great idea. I like to take dodge and mobility while wearing medium/heavy armor for +2 MADB but that's far from game changing

[Tilomere]

Wouldn't your THF Eldritch Knight be affected by the same THF and CAF nerfs?

Yes, but the end result is different. Paladin has to lower the difficulty or die because it doesn't have the AoE or single target dps it used to have, and its healing hands run out before the dungeon finishes.

EK simply takes longer and uses a few more reconstructs.

[SpartanKiller13]

Feats in no particular order, as I am not worried about the leveling experience:
Force of Personality, Completionist, THF-line, Power Attack, Overwhelming Critical, Extra Turning, Perfect THF, Perfect TWF, Blinding Speed, Holy Strike, Scion of Arborea

One open Feat is undecided... WF: Slashing? Precision? Something else???

CAF was nerfed pretty heavily, so I wouldn't worry as much about Extra Turning. Or at least try it before building for it

I'd take Precision > Power Attack every time, it's a noticeable increase to your hit rate (which matters more as you climb skulls) and Fort Bypass compared to a fairly minor damage buff and an accuracy penalty.

I'd definitely take Dire Charge instead of Holy Strike. Did I miss something super obvious there? You get Ghost Touch from KotC Core 3 (and as a Cha-max can easily UMD True Seeing scrolls anyway) so I can't picture a world where you'd ever consider Holy Strike. It's +10d6, 5% of the time, with no scaling, against evil enemies only - an average of 1.75 damage/swing. Take Deific Warding if you really hate Dire Charge lmao, but as a Cha-max w/Trance toon you should have hilarious DC's so I can't picture that.

You need to take Improved Critical as a pre-requisite for Overwhelming Critical.

Blinding Speed can be replaced by a ML20 Topaz of Swiftness if you can find one, which opens up another epic feat Epic Damage Reduction is an easy pick if there's nothing else you want.

Quicken Spell and Extend Spell can both be nice QoL depending on how much you like micro-managing short-term buffs; not always optimal, but there's more to DDO than re-buffing