End game raid progression

[Shadospawn]

I’ve been looking around for some info on this but as far as the end game raids, which would you say are the easiest for some moderately coordinated pug groups to pull off, and which would you say would be the most challenging.

Talking epic normal here. Just considering running some learning raids and looking for the best places to start.

Not a total raid newb as I raided shroud, fall of truth, caught in the web years ago however lots has changed since then, obviously.

I’ve seen it said maybe babas is a good place to start? Also reading Legendary Shroud doesn’t seem too much different from the original.

Thanks in advance!!

[Lupito]

Assuming there is a level of coordination ,group knows what to do(atleast acording to wiki) and set roles (based on my opinion and experience in those raids) :

vod can be done with 3 people on norm np
Baba is pretty straight forward, you just need enough people for the puzzles split
Sthrad is the same, just g2 have enough people for the doors part
Too hot to handle is not an easy raid but can be done with not a full group
Fire on thurnderpeak is easy
shroud can be hard with a small group at some parts, depends on skill, then again on norm shouldn't be too hard
There is a video of a guy soloing project nemesis but he's crazy
Riding the storm out doesn't need many players but it's nasty in general
Killing time needs a good team with heals and dps, on norm you dont need a full raid group
Master artificer is pretty easy if you can handle the double bosses and have range dps for toven
Lord of blades is pretty challenging with a small group, will require good coordination and range dps for pillars
Temple of the Deathwyrm has a pretty challenging end fight otherwise it's pretty easy
Defiler of just is easy ifff you can handle the fallen angels part
Vault of night is a nice starter raid can be done with as minimum as 4 people, just g2 open the door.
Tempest spine has a few shortcuts and doesn't need many players

Tldr: I'd say vod ,baba, fire on thunderpeak are the most simple straightforward raids to try

[Tsutti]

I might be able to further split these up, don't have time atm though. Also this is a personal opinion of it.

super easy on normal with a decent raid group:

• Legendary Hound of Xoriat
• Fire on Thunder Peak
• Temple of the Deathwyrm
• The Codex and the Shroud (commonly called the Legendary Shroud)
• Old Baba's Hut
• Legendary Tempest Spine

could probably pretty much throw together a random group with zero coordination on these and be completely fine, just need some dps and that's about it for normal (need some healing somehow, but doesn't need a dedicated healer)

easy enough on normal with a decent raid group:

• Legendary Master Artificer
• Legendary Lord of Blades*
• The Curse of Strahd
• Legendary Vision of Destruction
• Project Nemesis
• Killing Time

these need some coordination, or decent characters
master artificer isn't that bad really, could possibly move it up to the previous category, lord of blades has an asterisk because it is quite a bit harder if you do the optional to mark him 3 times but you get an extra loot chest
LoB, VoD, PN, and KT all need a tank that has at least some moderately high hp and prr/mrr
Strahd doesn't so much need a decent tank and whatnot, it's just an extreme test of coordination--not that bad on normal though

extreme difficulty on normal with a decent raid group, VERY high chance of failure if 1-2 people have no idea what they're doing and don't follow instructions unless you have some uber toons in the group to carry despite this:

• Too Hot to Handle

this raid is very fun imo, and ridiculously short, but if people don't know what they're doing and don't pay attention they can make it incompletable by killing trash (ONLY PEOPLE WITH SUNBURST SHOULD GENERALLY KILL TRASH, ALL TOGETHER AT ONCE!!!)
there is some trash that spawns in the back that you generally want some cc for, and just toss a spell at them and kill them all, and then there are a bunch of forgewraiths--if they aren't killed together, but one at a time near each other, the surviving ones get upgraded and you can easily upgrade them to bosses accidentally--trash that upgrades to bosses when you kill other trash near them? not good for some groups
dps needs to just focus main boss and nothing else, other than that if you have a good healer and lots of dps then by all means try the raid, it's fun and can take as little as 5 minutes with a good group


I did not list Riding the Storm Out anywhere because I've never run it in a raid group, just shortman with some friends. Seems like it would be rather difficult with a larger group compared with a small one, actually, due to a unique mechanic. Lots of puzzles, can get a bit mind numbing for one person to do all of them because they require great concentration. Very fun the times I have run though. I also did not list the new raid coming out tomorrow, The Dryad and the Demigod, because I wasn't able to get on Lamannia and try running it :P
So I have no clue how hard it is in a decent group, based on what I heard it shouldn't be too bad.

[Shadospawn]

Tsutti and Lupito thanks for your thoughtful responses! I greatly appreciate it!!

I’ll stew on this a bit and pick a couple to focus on initially. ????

[SirValentine]

Raids can be hard or easy in different ways:

- combat
- quest knowledge required
- coordination/tactics/timing required

To discuss just two of the raids previously mentioned, Baba & VoD:

Baba is, from a combat standpoint, much, much easier than VoD. My guild does VoD on LH if we're taking it easy, or R1 if we're willing to pay attention. Baba is as easy on R4 as VoD on LH.

But from a complexity standpoint, VoD is super-simple. You go in, and kill stuff. That's it. (Well, there's some traps you can disarm, too.)

But Baba has all sorts of weird different stages, certain dangerous mobs that only trigger at certain times, annoying unavoidable AoE attacks the target should know to keep away from party, having to split up into two teams that can't progress without the other doing certain things, annoying tile puzzles that are locked if you don't have the timing of killing certain mobs right. Once you know it, Baba isn't that tricky, but there actually is a lot to know. You can't just walk in and expect it to go smoothly, whereas you actually could in VoD.