Is it time to update the tome favor rewards?

[Marshal_Lannes]

Way back when I first started playing and the level cap was 20 and people asked you to link BBs(that's boss beaters, kids) before getting into a Shroud group the +2 tome you received for achieving 1750 favor was actually useful. Now true, tomes actually dropped in quests back then and you could also get them from raids but if you were unlucky with the loot dice that +2 tome was useful. Now, more than a decade later, when it appears tomes have power crept up to +8 we are still being offered +2 tomes that are near useless. Well, 1750 favor is much easier to get now one might say, and they would be right. However, back in the +2 tome era you also lost your tomes when you TR'd (how bout those apples?) and when they did carry over you still had to run OOB 10 times each life to eek out the XP needed to get a 3rd TR. Since pretty much everything has been made easier/streamlined these days doesn't it make sense to at least double the +2 tomes to +4 and increase the 5000 favor +5 tome to +6. This still leaves players appropriately separated from the +8 tomes available for purchase but does modernize and close the ability score gap.

If 1750 favor is still felt to be too low for a +4 tome, swap out the Favored Soul and tome reward so you get Favored Soul at 1750 and a +4 tome at 2500. 2500 requires you to do quite a few quests in a life so you're not exactly giving something away for free in that case. Further, the gloss that was once FVS no longer applies. Many (most?) classes surpass it and being a FVS carries no in-game benefit that it did many years ago.

Updating the +2 tome seems long overdue, as now I'm sure 95% of them end up being turned into 9 purified shards, if the player even bothers to hit the crafting station before TRing.

[SirValentine]

I agree it's useless for most people, and could be tweaked to be more useful. But to me, the fact that it's +2 isn't the worst part. But it's BtC and there are only 6 ability scores, and that's equally true for the +5 tomes at 5000 favor. If they were BtA I could use them to help out an alt, or if skill tomes were included I'd have much more opportunity to make use of them. I don't need any more BtC ability tomes at all.

[LightBear]

Whenever I do pick one up I tend to crush that +2 tome for crafting.

Last +5 tome I got was on HCL season 1... Yes I have the steps to show for it.

It should be easier to obtain 5k favor nowadays as we're getting close to 7k total favor now.

Putting it like that, the diminished value of the tomes is on par with it now being easier to obtain the favor to unlock it.

+ All the goodies that you unlock on your first way up to 5k favor, that really is a lot that still hold their value.

I won't do 6 sequential runs to 5k favor myself but can see that others might.
Still, something else to pick from then a stat tome reward would be nice.
Perhaps a Tome that grants HP or SP?

[frederjoe1]

How did I not know this. I have been trashing every since bound to character tome because I figured they were useless. So now you are telling me I can actually crunch them into something different? My DDOWiki skills are weak...

[Stravix]

I agree it's useless for most people, and could be tweaked to be more useful. But to me, the fact that it's +2 isn't the worst part. But it's BtC and there are only 6 ability scores, and that's equally true for the +5 tomes at 5000 favor. If they were BtA I could use them to help out an alt, or if skill tomes were included I'd have much more opportunity to make use of them. I don't need any more BtC ability tomes at all.

/Signed on skill tomes being at least an option there. That way it would take quite a bit longer for those favor rewards to be fully worthless as tomes themselves.

[Hawkwier]

I agree it's useless for most people, and could be tweaked to be more useful. But to me, the fact that it's +2 isn't the worst part. But it's BtC and there are only 6 ability scores, and that's equally true for the +5 tomes at 5000 favor. If they were BtA I could use them to help out an alt, or if skill tomes were included I'd have much more opportunity to make use of them. I don't need any more BtC ability tomes at all.

/Signed on making them BTA.

[Captain_Wizbang]

we have asked on here at least a dozen times in the last 2 years, to the best of my fading knowledge , we have not had an SSG reply.

[LightBear]

How did I not know this. I have been trashing every since bound to character tome because I figured they were useless. So now you are telling me I can actually crunch them into something different? My DDOWiki skills are weak...

https://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Purifi...shard_Fragment

This my goto pusher for the juice:
https://ddowiki.com/page/Reginald_Belspry

[Enoach]

I like the idea of adding Skill tomes to both lists.

I think based on the effort involved, the +2 @ 1750 and +5 @ 5000 are good where they are currently.

Now a thought, not sure if feasible, but what about adding an amount of DDO points of buying the tome as an option (maybe only available if character already has tomes or greater of the reward offer). It might be a way to encourage people to run more of the content.

[Stravix]

I like the idea of adding Skill tomes to both lists.

I think based on the effort involved, the +2 @ 1750 and +5 @ 5000 are good where they are currently.

Now a thought, not sure if feasible, but what about adding an amount of DDO points of buying the tome as an option (maybe only available if character already has tomes or greater of the reward offer). It might be a way to encourage people to run more of the content.

That would be far too much. Tomes are expensive, and it would throw the 25 pts per 100 favor completely out of wack to offer points

[Sylvado]

Way back when I first started playing and the level cap was 20 and people asked you to link BBs(that's boss beaters, kids) before getting into a Shroud group the +2 tome you received for achieving 1750 favor was actually useful. Now true, tomes actually dropped in quests back then and you could also get them from raids but if you were unlucky with the loot dice that +2 tome was useful. Now, more than a decade later, when it appears tomes have power crept up to +8 we are still being offered +2 tomes that are near useless. Well, 1750 favor is much easier to get now one might say, and they would be right. However, back in the +2 tome era you also lost your tomes when you TR'd (how bout those apples?) and when they did carry over you still had to run OOB 10 times each life to eek out the XP needed to get a 3rd TR. Since pretty much everything has been made easier/streamlined these days doesn't it make sense to at least double the +2 tomes to +4 and increase the 5000 favor +5 tome to +6. This still leaves players appropriately separated from the +8 tomes available for purchase but does modernize and close the ability score gap.

If 1750 favor is still felt to be too low for a +4 tome, swap out the Favored Soul and tome reward so you get Favored Soul at 1750 and a +4 tome at 2500. 2500 requires you to do quite a few quests in a life so you're not exactly giving something away for free in that case. Further, the gloss that was once FVS no longer applies. Many (most?) classes surpass it and being a FVS carries no in-game benefit that it did many years ago.

Updating the +2 tome seems long overdue, as now I'm sure 95% of them end up being turned into 9 purified shards, if the player even bothers to hit the crafting station before TRing.

I was thinking the same thing as I crushed a bunch to reduce my TR cache. Perhaps make them unbound so you can help out new players. I got an unbound +1 from a breakable is a level 4 quest yesterday so it wouldn't be that much of a stretch.

[LiveFast]

Way back when I first started playing and the level cap was 20 and people asked you to link BBs(that's boss beaters, kids) before getting into a Shroud group the +2 tome you received for achieving 1750 favor was actually useful. Now true, tomes actually dropped in quests back then and you could also get them from raids but if you were unlucky with the loot dice that +2 tome was useful. Now, more than a decade later, when it appears tomes have power crept up to +8 we are still being offered +2 tomes that are near useless. Well, 1750 favor is much easier to get now one might say, and they would be right. However, back in the +2 tome era you also lost your tomes when you TR'd (how bout those apples?) and when they did carry over you still had to run OOB 10 times each life to eek out the XP needed to get a 3rd TR. Since pretty much everything has been made easier/streamlined these days doesn't it make sense to at least double the +2 tomes to +4 and increase the 5000 favor +5 tome to +6. This still leaves players appropriately separated from the +8 tomes available for purchase but does modernize and close the ability score gap.

If 1750 favor is still felt to be too low for a +4 tome, swap out the Favored Soul and tome reward so you get Favored Soul at 1750 and a +4 tome at 2500. 2500 requires you to do quite a few quests in a life so you're not exactly giving something away for free in that case. Further, the gloss that was once FVS no longer applies. Many (most?) classes surpass it and being a FVS carries no in-game benefit that it did many years ago.

Updating the +2 tome seems long overdue, as now I'm sure 95% of them end up being turned into 9 purified shards, if the player even bothers to hit the crafting station before TRing.

Great idea. +4 at 2500 and +6 at 5000 is actually very useful to every classes. A first life fighter could take +4 con at 2500 and +6 str at 5000. Casters would be +6 int/wis/cha instead.

[Stormraiser]

Way back when I first started playing and the level cap was 20 and people asked you to link BBs(that's boss beaters, kids) before getting into a Shroud group the +2 tome you received for achieving 1750 favor was actually useful. Now true, tomes actually dropped in quests back then and you could also get them from raids but if you were unlucky with the loot dice that +2 tome was useful. Now, more than a decade later, when it appears tomes have power crept up to +8 we are still being offered +2 tomes that are near useless. Well, 1750 favor is much easier to get now one might say, and they would be right. However, back in the +2 tome era you also lost your tomes when you TR'd (how bout those apples?) and when they did carry over you still had to run OOB 10 times each life to eek out the XP needed to get a 3rd TR. Since pretty much everything has been made easier/streamlined these days doesn't it make sense to at least double the +2 tomes to +4 and increase the 5000 favor +5 tome to +6. This still leaves players appropriately separated from the +8 tomes available for purchase but does modernize and close the ability score gap.

If 1750 favor is still felt to be too low for a +4 tome, swap out the Favored Soul and tome reward so you get Favored Soul at 1750 and a +4 tome at 2500. 2500 requires you to do quite a few quests in a life so you're not exactly giving something away for free in that case. Further, the gloss that was once FVS no longer applies. Many (most?) classes surpass it and being a FVS carries no in-game benefit that it did many years ago.

Updating the +2 tome seems long overdue, as now I'm sure 95% of them end up being turned into 9 purified shards, if the player even bothers to hit the crafting station before TRing.

One of the few times I agree with you.

[J1NG]

Thoughts on changing it to BTC "Favor" Runes instead, so that you can make a selection of stuff to trade in for instead? Or save up for?

eg:

1750 Favor = 25 Favor Runes
5000 Favor = 200 Favor Runes
Total = 225 Favor Runes per life

Trade In Options:
Stat Tome, Skill Tome, Cosmetic Dust, etc
25 Favor Runes = +2 Stat Tome of Choice, or 1 Cosmetic Dust
50 Favor Runes = +3 Stat Tome of Choice, or +1 Skill Tome of Choice
100 Favor Runes = +4 Stat Tome of Choice, or +2 Skill Tome of Choice
200 Favor Runes = +5 Stat Tome of Choice, or +3 Skill Tome of Choice
225 Favor Runes = 10 Cosmetic Dust
500 Favor Runes = +6 Stat Tome of Choice, or +4 Skill Tome of Choice
2000 Favor Runes = 100 Cosmetic Dust (9 Full 5000 Favor TRs)

+7s and +8s are not included due to limiting them from being freely tradeable from grind. +5 Skill tomes not included for similar reasons.

So in one 5000 Favor run, you get 225 Favor Runes, and you can trade in for 1x +5 Stat Tome, or 9 Cosmetic Dust (or 10 if you save up all of the Favor Runes in one TR), or a full set of +2s (for 150 Favor Runes), 4 x +3 Tomes (200 Favor Runes), or 2 x +4 Tomes (200 Favor Runes). The +6 Tomes would need three TR runs to obtain, but can be done. And a full set of +6s can be obtained in 14 full 5000 Favor Runs TRs if you just save them all up.

Items remain BTC though, except for the Cosmetic Dust. This will expand on the Tomes made available whilst keeping the BTC nature and giving alternatives to the +2 or +5 BTC tome. It'll also allow expandability of the rewards at a future time with other appropriate rewards who want to grind the favor. Whilst giving players options as to what to spend it on, rather than only just getting +2 Tomes or +5 Tomes and that's that.

Thoughts?

J1NG

[Stravix]

Thoughts on changing it to BTC "Favor" Runes instead, so that you can make a selection of stuff to trade in for instead? Or save up for?

eg:

1750 Favor = 25 Favor Runes
5000 Favor = 200 Favor Runes
Total = 225 Favor Runes per life

Trade In Options:
Stat Tome, Skill Tome, Cosmetic Dust, etc
25 Favor Runes = +2 Stat Tome of Choice, or 1 Cosmetic Dust
50 Favor Runes = +3 Stat Tome of Choice, or +1 Skill Tome of Choice
100 Favor Runes = +4 Stat Tome of Choice, or +2 Skill Tome of Choice
200 Favor Runes = +5 Stat Tome of Choice, or +3 Skill Tome of Choice
225 Favor Runes = 10 Cosmetic Dust
500 Favor Runes = +6 Stat Tome of Choice, or +4 Skill Tome of Choice
2000 Favor Runes = 100 Cosmetic Dust (9 Full 5000 Favor TRs)

+7s and +8s are not included due to limiting them from being freely tradeable from grind. +5 Skill tomes not included for similar reasons.

So in one 5000 Favor run, you get 225 Favor Runes, and you can trade in for 1x +5 Stat Tome, or 9 Cosmetic Dust (or 10 if you save up all of the Favor Runes in one TR), or a full set of +2s (for 150 Favor Runes), 4 x +3 Tomes (200 Favor Runes), or 2 x +4 Tomes (200 Favor Runes). The +6 Tomes would need three TR runs to obtain, but can be done. And a full set of +6s can be obtained in 14 full 5000 Favor Runs TRs if you just save them all up.

Items remain BTC though, except for the Cosmetic Dust. This will expand on the Tomes made available whilst keeping the BTC nature and giving alternatives to the +2 or +5 BTC tome. It'll also allow expandability of the rewards at a future time with other appropriate rewards who want to grind the favor. Whilst giving players options as to what to spend it on, rather than only just getting +2 Tomes or +5 Tomes and that's that.

Thoughts?

J1NG

that all looks really good, maybe make the drow elder the vendor for it too?

/signed

[Selvera]

My preferred method of buffing would be simply that they should have another favor reward at a higher mark that keeps up with new powercreep.

Now at current you can achieve 6934 favor in the game. My idea would be that they should add a favor reward once they hit 7000 total favor of a +8 stat tome of choice. No doubt a couple years later this will no longer need elite completions on all the endgame raids or all the challenges, but it will still be a feat that requires game knowledge, owning all the packs and/or friends.

It also wouldn't hurt if they gave the lower tiers a little bump; but it is true that they're easier to get now then ever before.

[Captain_Wizbang]

My preferred method of buffing would be simply that they should have another favor reward at a higher mark that keeps up with new powercreep.

Now at current you can achieve 6934 favor in the game. My idea would be that they should add a favor reward once they hit 7000 total favor of a +8 stat tome of choice. No doubt a couple years later this will no longer need elite completions on all the endgame raids or all the challenges, but it will still be a feat that requires game knowledge, owning all the packs and/or friends.

It also wouldn't hurt if they gave the lower tiers a little bump; but it is true that they're easier to get now then ever before.

+1

Most likely why it hasn't been on front burner.

Funny stuff right there. Someone should use that as a sig quote.

[kanordog]

Way back when I first started playing and the level cap was 20 and people asked you to link BBs(that's boss beaters, kids) before getting into a Shroud group the +2 tome you received for achieving 1750 favor was actually useful. Now true, tomes actually dropped in quests back then and you could also get them from raids but if you were unlucky with the loot dice that +2 tome was useful. Now, more than a decade later, when it appears tomes have power crept up to +8 we are still being offered +2 tomes that are near useless. Well, 1750 favor is much easier to get now one might say, and they would be right. However, back in the +2 tome era you also lost your tomes when you TR'd (how bout those apples?) and when they did carry over you still had to run OOB 10 times each life to eek out the XP needed to get a 3rd TR. Since pretty much everything has been made easier/streamlined these days doesn't it make sense to at least double the +2 tomes to +4 and increase the 5000 favor +5 tome to +6. This still leaves players appropriately separated from the +8 tomes available for purchase but does modernize and close the ability score gap.

If 1750 favor is still felt to be too low for a +4 tome, swap out the Favored Soul and tome reward so you get Favored Soul at 1750 and a +4 tome at 2500. 2500 requires you to do quite a few quests in a life so you're not exactly giving something away for free in that case. Further, the gloss that was once FVS no longer applies. Many (most?) classes surpass it and being a FVS carries no in-game benefit that it did many years ago.

Updating the +2 tome seems long overdue, as now I'm sure 95% of them end up being turned into 9 purified shards, if the player even bothers to hit the crafting station before TRing.

It should be changed to not to give tomes at all.

The democratization of gameplay should every game's design.

New players don't have tomes and it takes several reincarnation to get all abilities a +2 tome. Vets will level faster so their alts can get a +2 to all abilities really quick while newbies will slog behind. Imagine the gap if the tomes were +4!



Please don't change from nerf side to moar power side.

[Alrik_Fassbauer]

I don't have any +2 tome. Not that I knew of it.
So, it's still useful for me ...

Must all loot nowadays be divided between "loot for casuals" and "loot for powerplayers" ?

[kanordog]

I don't have any +2 tome. Not that I knew of it.
So, it's still useful for me ...

Must all loot nowadays be divided between "loot for casuals" and "loot for powerplayers" ?

When you reach 1750 favor you get a free +2 tome from the drow in harbor. Every character, every life.
https://ddowiki.com/page/Nyx_Durandimion and https://ddowiki.com/page/Favor

Did you skip him?


And for 5000 favor You get a +5 tome the same way.