2HF Stances instead of Current Lamma changes.

[DaviMOC]

Looking at big weapons there is 3 things i can think of. Big DMG, multiple target and Slower Atk speed. Those traits are usually applied to this type of weapon in most games.

Looking at D&D 3.5 the first version that inspired ddo( but not the only) the atk speed factor was never clearly managed there or here in DDO. We actually have mechanics in place to remedy for 2wf(offhand chance of atks) and SwF ( extra atk speed).

Also looking at the planned changes in the 2hf I feel its fair to try to balance things out but sad to loose its big DMG part. Such instinctive and inconic aspect of 2hf weapons.

For this my suggestion is actually to create 2 2hf stances.


Warmaster combat stance: Players can choose to keep their striketrought and use the new 2hf mod multipliers for dmg while using a 2hf weapon.


Executioner stance: Players can sacrifice their striketrought chance to focus on only one target . That way they can keep the 3x stat mod for dmg( or higher if you dont mind =p ). -5% atk speed and 5% longer Cooldown for melee actives atacks.

Switching stances would take time and have CD like Epic Defensive Fighting have. Extra penalty or buff to each stance or stance changing would be open to discuss by witchever dev implementing it.


Just tossing the raw idea. Having the big numbers we have now without any drawbacks seems to be not of interest but loosing this part of its fantasy or just loosing striketrought dosent look good too. So thats is my other way suggestion .

All this could be a new class concept but i feel like its fair to have it acessible to any 2hf character.

[Stravix]

Looking at big weapons there is 3 things i can think of. Big DMG, multiple target and Slower Atk speed. Those traits are usually applied to this type of weapon in most games.

Looking at D&D 3.5 the first version that inspired ddo( but not the only) the atk speed factor was never clearly managed there or here in DDO. We actually have mechanics in place to remedy for 2wf(offhand chance of atks) and SwF ( extra atk speed).

Also looking at the planned changes in the 2hf I feel its fair to try to balance things out but sad to loose its big DMG part. Such instinctive and inconic aspect of 2hf weapons.

For this my suggestion is actually to create 2 2hf stances.


Warmaster combat stance: Players can choose to keep their striketrought and use the new 2hf mod multipliers for dmg while using a 2hf weapon.


Executioner stance: Players can sacrifice their striketrought chance to focus on only one target . That way they can keep the 3x stat mod for dmg( or higher if you dont mind =p ). -5% atk speed and 5% longer Cooldown for melee actives atacks.

Switching stances would take time and have CD like Epic Defensive Fighting have. Extra penalty or buff to each stance or stance changing would be open to discuss by witchever dev implementing it.


Just tossing the raw idea. Having the big numbers we have now without any drawbacks seems to be not of interest but loosing this part of its fantasy or just loosing striketrought dosent look good too. So thats is my other way suggestion .

All this could be a new class concept but i feel like its fair to have it acessible to any 2hf character.

2HF will, even after the wristslap of a nerf, have the highest single hit damage of any melee fighting style. That is it's fantasy and it is preserved. This is achieved through a higher stat to damage multi, and a significantly higher damage die than any 1h alternative.

The fantasy is preserved, and 2HF should not be the best AoE damage and close to the best single target DPS. That would be overkill (as shown in current) and would need to be changed.

Just no.

[DaviMOC]

Higher? I may have missed but from what I read on the balance changes the feat line bonus is normalized by 25% in every style per feat . I agree with you that 2hf can't have the best of 2 world's but strikentrought is not enough compensation in comparison . It have very situational and limited usage . If you actually played one in groups you would see how that's more a on paper benefit . I see a lot of thrower builds clearing groups of mobs in the time of one cleave atack( something that you can have in Any style).

To be honest with you if they kept the mod multiplier difference and removed ST,
people would still claim how 2hf is powerful. That's how striketrought as a main feature is out of place and lacking .

[Stravix]

Higher? I may have missed but from what I read on the balance changes the feat line bonus is normalized by 25% in every style per feat . I agree with you that 2hf can't have the best of 2 world's but strikentrought is not enough compensation in comparison . It have very situational and limited usage . If you actually played one in groups you would see how that's more a on paper benefit . I see a lot of thrower builds clearing groups of mobs in the time of one cleave atack( something that you can have in Any style).

To be honest with you if they kept the mod multiplier difference and removed ST,
people would still claim how 2hf is powerful. That's how striketrought as a main feature is out of place and lacking .

Strikethough is the main reason why so many people play 2HF. It made cleave skills (for the most part) obsolete and allowed for smoother leveling and faster clears of most all content in the game, save raids.

And yes, 2HF will still have the highest stat to damage modifier and base damage values of any weapon type in the game, which is a good thing, as that preserves that fantasy of 2HF hitting slower and harder with area damage.

If you think ST is basically a ribbon, while still thinking cleaves are the godsend to melee, I don't know what to tell you.

[DaviMOC]

Double post on cell phone for some odd reason.

[DaviMOC]

Strikethough is the main reason why so many people play 2HF. It made cleave skills (for the most part) obsolete and allowed for smoother leveling and faster clears of most all content in the game, save raids.

And yes, 2HF will still have the highest stat to damage modifier and base damage values of any weapon type in the game, which is a good thing, as that preserves that fantasy of 2HF hitting slower and harder with area damage.

If you think ST is basically a ribbon, while still thinking cleaves are the godsend to melee, I don't know what to tell you.

Lol. All you said is true. But are we balancing over leveling experience ? If so let's be spellcasters. FvS that will nuke and heal. Or warlocks that are great at leveling and pretty bad at endgame .Cleave is still better than Striketrought but obsolete as you said because it have a feat price to pay. Another reason to not make it a passive feature of a style. We already have feats backed by the original ruleset to do something like it.

Sustained damage that applies 99% of the time to single target situations is were melee have value. Making 2hf the AoE guys puts it on the spellcasters/nuking league witch it can't compete at all.

[Hawkwier]

Seems to me cleaves could do with a buff to make them relevant again...