U48.4 Preview 1: Balance Changes: Combat Styles

[Malusny]

There is no mention of 2HF's base damage multiplier getting nerfed from 1.5 > 1.0.

Given that, it would be safe to assume that it is a bug, and not intended. While individual spell values might be off from patch notes to lama, a change to 2HF's base damage scaling is not something they would just forget to add IMO. Without confirmation that it is intended, we should just assume that it isn't.

Please keep in mind that lamania mechanics is usually what they release later so if there is 2.0 in lamania then it is going to be 2.0 in open worlds regardless of what is written in the description.

[Malusny]

If you want to revive the Vanguard builds then please offer them something more than shield +1W dmg... the shield is only Single Target dmg.

I recommend reducing cooldown on shield special abilities like stunning shield or shield rush. Shield Rush actually could remain at 30 seconds but Stunning Shield should be more or less same as Dire Charge or other "stunning" special attacks or spells from casters eg 12 seconds would be good.
please keep in mind that shield attacks are still single target.

Another option is to give the shield users some strikethrough on the shield.

Also. Shield bash is only 1 bash max per second therefore it is nothing comparing to 5-6 attacks made by SWF users.

Cheers.

[Marshal_Lannes]

yes and no. The change is indeed a multiplier difference per stat modifier, but the effect it will have on the overall damage of the character depends on that character's strength. This means that those at lower levels are going to experience a different decrease (as a before and after) than those at higher level. Additionally, it means that those that have less STR as a result of not having the requisite past lives, gear, etc. and are not micromanaging their burst STR (which I can't say all casual players do) are going to not experience as much of a decrease relative to the characters that do (again, before vs after). And by no means am I championing for the downfall of the 1% (because honestly, who cares), but even if a 100 STR build from both a casual player and an elite player is getting taxed the same, is the elite player really stopping at 100 STR? That's the point. The difference lies in the theoretical vs the experimental values, and I agree very much that for the theoretical values, nothing really changes with all variables made equivalent. The experimental value, however, may vary for many different reason, to include how one handles their character to max out their DPS and also how one maximizes their melee power (It's more likely that an elitist is going to have a higher MP rating, which means that they're gonna feel the difference more keenly than the ones that have a lower MP rating).

This has been explained to him multiple times now. He knows this. He can't/won't accept it. I've said multiple times now this is good game design

Keep patting yourself on the back there Bernie.

The calculation is simple. You can close your ears and yell as loud as you want, but this isn't a preferential tax on the 1% as you so badly want it to be. You're paying the tax with your 50 str build too.

Enjoy the nerfbat.

Agree, the calculation is simple. The R10 characters pay more. It has been pointed out to you numerous times. You seem unable to handle it. I've already stated I embrace the 3% nerf of THF for the greater good as it lowers the 1% DPS by 7%. This is excellent game design. And thank you for the compliment!

[Monkey_Archer]

There is no mention of 2HF's base damage multiplier getting nerfed from 1.5 > 1.0.

Given that, it would be safe to assume that it is a bug, and not intended. While individual spell values might be off from patch notes to lama, a change to 2HF's base damage scaling is not something they would just forget to add IMO. Without confirmation that it is intended, we should just assume that it isn't.

If this is true then I take back my defense of the THF nerfs. My acceptance of this nerf is based on THF being 2.5x attribute mod. 2.0x total would kill THF completely. Apologies for any confusion.

[Stravix]

If this is true then I take back my defense of the THF nerfs. My acceptance of this nerf is based on THF being 2.5x attribute mod. 2.0x total would kill THF completely. Apologies for any confusion.

I agree, 3.0 -> 2.5 is a good change, 3.0 ->2.0 would be far too much

[Monkey_Archer]

Agree, the calculation is simple. The R10 characters pay more. It has been pointed out to you numerous times. You seem unable to handle it. I've already stated I embrace the 3% nerf of THF for the greater good as it lowers the 1% DPS by 7%. This is excellent game design. And thank you for the compliment!

Just for anyone confused by the political innuendo:

The nerf to THF will be directly proportional to the amount your particular build relies on strength (or other attribute) vs other sources of damage.

If you have a very high strength and are not wearing a deadly item, you get nerfed more.
If you have a high damage mod but are not wearing a strength item you get nerfed less.
Most builds regardless of level will see roughly the same nerf assuming level appropriate gear.
High attribute builds like barbarians will see a bigger nerf than lower attribute builds like charisma paladins.

[Marshal_Lannes]

The nerf to THF will be directly proportional to the amount your particular build relies on strength (or other attribute) vs other sources of damage.

If you have a very high strength and are not wearing a deadly item, you get nerfed more.
If you have a high damage mod but are not wearing a strength item you get nerfed less.
Most builds regardless of level will see roughly the same nerf assuming level appropriate gear.
High attribute builds like barbarians will see a bigger nerf than lower attribute builds like charisma paladins.

Mostly true. I've highlighted the key part on why this is good game design. If you're anyone in heroics running R1-3 you are never going to notice the stat reduction. You're also taking less of a hit because you don't have perfect THF. You don't need that extra 3% to do what you already do. But if you're zerging around R8-10 you will feel that 7% hit. Don't take my word for it, listen to the mini-Thor proponents in this and other threads who lament and proclaim that THF is now untenable and for flavor only. They may either have to...gasp..slow down or drop a skull or two. Reducing the power of the upper-tier without affecting the lower is good game design.

[Arkat]

I believe the THF will be pushed just a bit too much down. 3.0 down to 2.0?? really?

Incorrect.

Here's the real deal:

We also wanted to quickly clarify a few things that we’ve seen circulating: Yes, THF retains its base 1.5 modifier, which means that at high levels, we are bringing THF from 3.0 to 2.5 (not 2.0).

[Stravix]

Incorrect.

Here's the real deal:

Yup, with that, I would say the feat shake-up is looking pretty darn good. I just wish the shield mastery feats got a little bit of a mechanical change to go alongside them, but I'll take whatever progress I can get.

[Cetus]

This has been explained to him multiple times now. He knows this. He can't/won't accept it. I've said multiple times now this is good game design



Agree, the calculation is simple. The R10 characters pay more. It has been pointed out to you numerous times. You seem unable to handle it. I've already stated I embrace the 3% nerf of THF for the greater good as it lowers the 1% DPS by 7%. This is excellent game design. And thank you for the compliment!

Here, educate yourself:

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...after-the-nerf

You're welcome.

It's amazing how thick some of these noobs are.

[Hawkwier]

Mostly true. I've highlighted the key part on why this is good game design. If you're anyone in heroics running R1-3 you are never going to notice the stat reduction. You're also taking less of a hit because you don't have perfect THF. You don't need that extra 3% to do what you already do. But if you're zerging around R8-10 you will feel that 7% hit. Don't take my word for it, listen to the mini-Thor proponents in this and other threads who lament and proclaim that THF is now untenable and for flavor only. They may either have to...gasp..slow down or drop a skull or two. Reducing the power of the upper-tier without affecting the lower is good game design.

Not exactly. Whilst I take your point that higher attribute values will be more affected and can to some extent be considered akin to progressive taxation, there is also unintentional consequence to consider. The % DPS reduction depends on the proportion of DPS contributed by the ability modifier. For barbs, given rage and associated enhancements to strength, there is potential for this nerf to hit them disproportionately.

For example. In live testing, my barb, unbuffed, suffers a standing 5.4% DPS loss, but when buffed this loss increases to 6.8%. These numbers are based on attribute contribution reduction from 3 to 2.5. if from 3 to 2, as currently on Lam, these losses become 10.8% and 13.6% respectively.

Naturally one hopes Lam is an error. Be nice if a Dev could be bothered to confirm!

Anyway, if other classes relative contribution to DPS is different to that of barbs then thier DPS loss from this change will vary accordingly. I don't think that is particularly good design at all. TBH I don't think they thought it through that much at all - just 3 overshot, let's dial it back a bit.

So whilst I understand your argument, I think you give them too much credit here.

[Ghustor]

Natural Fighting
The Natural Fighting feat now increases your ability score modifier to damage by 25% while in Bear or Dire Bear form.

New Feat: Perfect Natural Fighting

• Req: Level 26, maximum experience in one Primal sphere Epic Destiny, at least one copy of Natural Fighting.
• If in Bear form, your Two-Handed ability mod increases by .25, and your Bear form's bonus to Armor Class is increased by 5%.
• If in Wolf form, +15% competence bonus to maximum hit points, and you gain +2d6 sneak attack dice.

BUG FOUND ON LAMANNIA

Reported at https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...king-proprialy

As the images shows (look the Damage on the inventory window), 1 hand weapon has the same damage as Wolf and Bear, like it should be, but a 2 handed weapon isnt get the Natural Attack bonus and are doing more damage as Wolf than Bear.

[Ghustor]

Single Weapon Fighting
New Feat: Offhand Versatility

• Req: BaB 8, Single Weapon Fighting
• Your offhand item modifies your main hand:
  
  • Runearms and Orbs now grant: when you vorpal strike, your next spell automatically crits. This has an internal cooldown of 20 seconds (lasts for 20 seconds).
  • Nothing in your offhand increases your ability score modifier to damage by 25%.
• Fighters may select this feat as one of their Fighter Bonus Feats.

Perfect Single Weapon Fighting

• Now also increases your ability score modifier to damage by 25%.
• Now also grants an additional +10 combat style bonus to Melee Power.

Natural Fighting
The Natural Fighting feat now increases your ability score modifier to damage by 25% while in Bear or Dire Bear form.

New Feat: Perfect Natural Fighting

• Req: Level 26, maximum experience in one Primal sphere Epic Destiny, at least one copy of Natural Fighting.
• If in Bear form, your Two-Handed ability mod increases by .25, and your Bear form's bonus to Armor Class is increased by 5%.
• If in Wolf form, +15% competence bonus to maximum hit points, and you gain +2d6 sneak attack dice.

If SWF will increases your ability score modifier to damage by 25%, Wolves should recived it too like Bears are following the TWF changes. Otherwise Wolf will be the worse Single Damage Dealer on the game.

[voxson5]

There have been quite a few pretty good 2wf suggestions, in this thread and others - I hope that the dev's are taking them on board as well. We'd really appreciate if they could be acknowledged and responded to.

[Stravix]

There have been quite a few pretty good 2wf suggestions, in this thread and others - I hope that the dev's are taking them on board as well. We'd really appreciate if they could be acknowledged and responded to.

yeah, while the high end of 2wf is doing well, that power could and should be spread around a bit more into the core of the feats, in order to lessen the disparity between VKF/Ranger and the rest of the 2wf users

[ValariusK]

yeah, while the high end of 2wf is doing well, that power could and should be spread around a bit more into the core of the feats, in order to lessen the disparity between VKF/Ranger and the rest of the 2wf users

Perhaps the solution is to manufacture a few more ways you can get 100% offhand hits.

What if: superior weapon focus and greater weapon specialization each gave +10% offhand hits in addition to their current effects? That'd give a pure or mostly pure fighter the ability to get to 100% offhand. You could extend it down to weapon focus +5/weapon spec +5/greater weapon focus +5/greater weapon spec +5% if you wanted to be more generous and put a little (5%) in range of everyone.

What if: a few more weapons (I think there's a raid weapon or two right now that has this) had +10% or so to offhand strike percentages?

or
What if two weapon defense also gave +10% offhand hits (for a ranger this'd be no net benefit) and oversized TWF also gave +10% offhand hits?

Then add a multiselector to the Vistani enhancement on tier 4. If you don't want the +20% offhand hits, you can take, say, +10 melee power.

[Marshal_Lannes]

Here, educate yourself:

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...after-the-nerf

You're welcome.

It's amazing how thick some of these noobs are.

I've already educated you "fighter god". All my posts here are far more informative than you citing yourself (which in itself is hilarious).

Not exactly. Whilst I take your point that higher attribute values will be more affected and can to some extent be considered akin to progressive taxation, there is also unintentional consequence to consider. The % DPS reduction depends on the proportion of DPS contributed by the ability modifier. For barbs, given rage and associated enhancements to strength, there is potential for this nerf to hit them disproportionately.

So whilst I understand your argument, I think you give them too much credit here.

Well, Barbarian rage does bring up an interesting scenario as you describe. They receive a disproportionate amount of raw STR from their class ability. This might end up affecting Barbs more than other classes.

[voxson5]

I've already educated you "fighter god". All my posts here are far more informative than you citing yourself (which in itself is hilarious).

From a lurker perspective, Cetus has provided math to reasonably support his argument, you have provided conjecture.

Perhaps you'd like to provide some evidence based rational?

[Saekee]

Can you add a feat something like:

Dimachaerus: If TWF with identical weapons in each hand, then you gain +5% mainhand DS and +10% offhand DS. Or something like that, not gonna do the balance math.


Legionaire: If using a short sword with a Tower Shield, you gain +1W and 10% DS. Again, something like that, not gonna do the balance math.

[Marshal_Lannes]

From a lurker perspective, Cetus has provided math to reasonably support his argument, you have provided conjecture.

Perhaps you'd like to provide some evidence based rational?

Asked and answered. See above my many posts here. Already have done the calculations. "Fighter God", who rage quit THF, has cited no numbers, he has cited himself, as presumably a god; which, when after being exposed, is reduced to saying "but I'm a GOD!".