What Happened to Wizard Enchanters? Any Viable Builds Out There?

[savingsoul]

This thread is not about builds in which Enchantment is secondary.
It is about builds with a Magister ED specialization in Enchantment.

Being an Enchanter alone is currently not viable in DDO, so the question is: what can be secondary?

--Enchanter with Illusion as secondary doesn't make sense anymore with the Feydark Illusionist tree now available.
--Enchanter with Necromancer as secondary uses two different bases for DC's, will vs. fortitude, so you lose the benefit of Spell School Augmentation's reduction of WIS saves.
--Enchanter with Evoker as secondary uses two different bases for DC's, will vs. reflex, so you lose the benefit of Augmentation's reduction of WIS saves.
--Enchanter with melee or ranged as secondary is highly compromised because Magister gives no benefit to them.

What is the best Enchanter build out there?

I tried Enchanter with Inquisitive, which was awesome in heroics, and can be okay in epics as well:

Deep Gnome
20 Wizard

FEATS
Wizard: Spell Focus: Enchantment, Heighten, Enlarge, Extend, Quicken
1 - PBS
3 - Rapid Shot
6 - Precise Shot
9 - Spell Penetration
12 - Greater Spell Penetration
15 - Greater Spell Focus: Enchantment
18 - Improved Critical: Ranged

No IPS?!? The enemies are typically held, dancing, or maybe charmed, so they are rarely lined up. You won't miss it.

Rapid Reload can be taken in epic levels if desired.

Epic Spell Focus: Enchantment
Epic Spell Penetration
Overwhelming Critical
Scion of the Feywild

ENHANCEMENTS
41 ap in Inquisitive
12ap in Harper
27ap Pale Master

Harper’s
Strategic Combat II - 12ap

Pale Master - 27ap
Lich
+2 Enchantment DC
Inflict Weariness!!! This is awesome.
Skeletal Knight
Negative Spell Critical
Negative Healing Amp

Epic Destiny: Magister
Specialization: Enchantment
Twists: ***SENSE WEAKNESS*** (FoTW T4), Dance of Flowers (GMoF T1), Cocoon (PA T1), Stay Frosty (Shiradi T1)

POSSIBLE EQUIPMENT (Still Exploring):
Silent Avenger Set:
Cloak, Invisible Cloak of Strahd (Baba Raid)
Belt, Legendary Braided Cutcord (The Final Vintage)
Outfit, Patience through Peril (Baba Raid)

Legendary Kindred Pendant (Barovia Quest: Oath of Vengeance)
and/or Band Immaterial
Hypnotic Pendant
Legendary Shimmer - Conflicts w/ Invisible Cloak of Strahd (see above)
Goggles, Van Richten’s Spectacles (Baba Raid)

Head, Legendary Crown of Butterflies (Immortality Lessons)
Boots, Specter Boots (Finding Doris) - Profane Experiment Set
Trinket, Legendary Deep Promise Onyx (Rosemary’s Ballad)
Legendary Bracers of the Glacier (Vision of Destruction) or Legendary Levik’s Bracers (Vision of Destruction)

Delicate Thimble Tips for Spell Penetration

Other:
Bracers, Necromancer’s Bracers (Members Only)
Legendary Outpost Sniper’s Belt (Records of the Past)
Legendary Crumbling Gloves (Oath of Vengeance)
Cursed Mirror (Obstructing the Orcs)

I switch between Magister and Shiradi depending on the quest. For example, if there are a lot of undead the Enchantment spells won't apply, so I switch to Shiradi. Also, if I know there is already enough CC in the party, I can switch to Shiradi. However, by design and default, I use Magister with an Enchantment focus. (I considered Shadowdancer with maxing INT for DC, hit, dmg, and SA and some ranged power, but it is a compromise in both ranged damage and enchantment DC, so it decided against it.)

[slarden]

There are a couple of things at play at end game.

As far as playing an arcane warrior type build with CC there are a number of reasons why you rarely see those at end game. Melees have access to dire charge and it generally synergizes better with martial gear. Shiradi has abilities and procs for ranged.

Secondly saves are really high in Sharn, Feywild and some other places so you have to make a high investment in DC to make it workable. So this usually means a legendary feat that will grant your main school +4, a set bonus that gives a main stat and DC bonus, filigree optimized to boost DC and main stat. Taking away these 3 things reduces your DC by nearly 20. Being in magister gives you +12 DC vs. the twist which will only provide +3. So now you are nearly 30 DC behind if you don't have all those things.

DC casting has gone the way of tanking where it's very specialized, only beneficial situationally, and even more difficult to obtain workable #s relative to tanking.

Another reason is SALT LGS off-hand weapons. If you throw an enlarged meteor swarm at a mob and they are moving and attacking at -90% it negates the need for CC in many places. The cooldown is shorter than the duration of the proc.

Lastly, for the few people still specializing in DC you really want to focus on necro because the saves are harder to overcome in general so you want a higher DC in necromancy. So it's best to have enchantment as a secondary school.

if a deep gnome was going to try and use CC as a martial build I would suggest greater color spray is better because he DC potential is higher. You still have the problem of destiny, set bonus, legendary feat and filigree which are generally going to favor either dps, dc casting but not both.

[savingsoul]

There are a couple of things at play at end game.

As far as playing an arcane warrior type build with CC there are a number of reasons why you rarely see those at end game. Melees have access to dire charge and it generally synergizes better with martial gear. Shiradi has abilities and procs for ranged.

Secondly saves are really high in Sharn, Feywild and some other places so you have to make a high investment in DC to make it workable. So this usually means a legendary feat that will grant your main school +4, a set bonus that gives a main stat and DC bonus, filigree optimized to boost DC and main stat. Taking away these 3 things reduces your DC by nearly 20. Being in magister gives you +12 DC vs. the twist which will only provide +3. So now you are nearly 30 DC behind if you don't have all those things.

DC casting has gone the way of tanking where it's very specialized, only beneficial situationally, and even more difficult to obtain workable #s relative to tanking.

Another reason is SALT LGS off-hand weapons. If you throw an enlarged meteor swarm at a mob and they are moving and attacking at -90% it negates the need for CC in many places. The cooldown is shorter than the duration of the proc.

Lastly, for the few people still specializing in DC you really want to focus on necro because the saves are harder to overcome in general so you want a higher DC in necromancy. So it's best to have enchantment as a secondary school.

if a deep gnome was going to try and use CC as a martial build I would suggest greater color spray is better because he DC potential is higher. You still have the problem of destiny, set bonus, legendary feat and filigree which are generally going to favor either dps, dc casting but not both.

Thanks for this.

I chose DG because I wanted to experiment with an Enchanter. Actually, the main idea was to hold everything and then take advantage of the extra damage due to helplessness using Inquisitive. That combination worked out awesomely in heroics and early epics, and even though I do not really enjoy soloing, it made a pure wizard with specialization in enchantment able to solo.

When I was with a party, the character got the obligatory ooos and awes for holding drow. That would compensate for the oblique comments that previously ridiculed the character for carrying crossbows. "Oh, they're an enchanter!"

Anyway, since it was pure wizard I figured I could switch to Necro or Illusion if Enchanter didn't work out later in the game. I tried necro and enjoyed it but the challenge of enchanter still called out to me, so I switched back. I don't have Feydark yet, so I didn't try Illusionist.

I had fun with it as far as Enchanter went. I knew it was gimped once I got to Epics because of the ED issue, but then I feel like the whole game is gimped because there are so many artifacts lying around that reveal how distinct and diverse roles have been undermined. The enchantment specialization in Magister is just one such artifact, and the wizard enchanter is just one such role.

[slarden]

Thanks for this.

I chose DG because I wanted to experiment with an Enchanter. Actually, the main idea was to hold everything and then take advantage of the extra damage due to helplessness using Inquisitive. That combination that worked out awesomely in heroics and early epics, and even though I do not really enjoy soloing, it made a pure wizard with specialization in enchantment able to solo.

When I was with a party, the character got the obligatory ooos and awes for holding drow. That would compensate for the oblique comments that previously ridiculed the character for carrying crossbows. "Oh, they're an enchanter!"

Anyway, since it was pure wizard I figured I could switch to Necro or Illusion if Enchanter didn't work out later in the game. I tried necro and enjoyed it but the challenge of enchanter still called out to me, so I switched back. I don't have Feydark yet, so I didn't try Illusionist.

I had fun with it as far as Enchanter went. I knew it was gimped once I got to Epics because of the ED issue, but then I feel like the whole game is gimped because there are so many artifacts lying around that reveal how distinct and diverse roles have been undermined. The enchantment specialization in Magister is just one such artifact, and the wizard enchanter is just one such role.

The good news is will saves are lower on average than other saves so you can do it, but you would have to make some DPS sacrifices for enchantment, less so for illusion/greater color spray which is shorter in duration (+3 potential from deep gnome past lifes and +3 from deep gnome tree). For end game 110 DC will get many things (will save), but not everything. That is the # I would shoot for - and if you are in shiradi instead of magister you have a few backup cc options. Since you are already in the build I would try that and see how it works out at level 30.

You can see the DC computation for a max DC illusionist in the illusionist build in my sig. I don't believe greater color spray is fear-based so draconic presence twist wouldn't work. For enchantment it's mostly the same things except for the deep gnome tree, past lifes and draconic presence.

You can have a DC-loaded filigree for mobs and switch to a dps crossbow for bosses. I think for gear you probably want to go with a dc boosting set at 30, but there are other combos of sets you can use to get dps bonuses on top of that. You can also have swap gear for boss fights where you don't need DC. That should get you to a workable DC - whether it's worth the trade-off I am not sure. On a recent bladeforged paladin past life I ran greater color spray for leveling all the way to 29 and then switched to dire charge for 29/30. I used casting and charisma filigree for GCS. I was really happy with the results - it made leveling so much easier.

[savingsoul]

The good news is will saves are lower on average than other saves so you can do it, but you would have to make some DPS sacrifices for enchantment, less so for illusion/greater color spray which is shorter in duration (+3 potential from deep gnome past lifes and +3 from deep gnome tree). For end game 110 DC will get many things (will save), but not everything. That is the # I would shoot for - and if you are in shiradi instead of magister you have a few backup cc options. Since you are already in the build I would try that and see how it works out at level 30.

Yes, I think it can be done.

However, I already did a True Iconic reincarnation on that character. I have some other ideas I am trying out.

To be clear: My complaint is not about the compromises between Enchanter and secondary options like ranged damage. Actually, I think there should be compromises like that, which used to be there but are lacking. The compromises used to be tied to the mix and balance of different roles, like Sorcs doing tons of damage but being delicate aka glass cannons. That's why they've needed others like tanks and healers.

My complaint is about everyone being able to do everything, like others being able to outdo an Enchanter with CC or like everyone having access to Cocoon and Healing Spring and Sacred Ground thereby undermining the role of Healers (that is, they should be in the cores or higher up the in the tiers).

You can see the DC computation for a max DC illusionist in the illusionist build in my sig. I don't believe greater color spray is fear-based so draconic presence twist wouldn't work. For enchantment it's mostly the same things except for the deep gnome tree, past lifes and draconic presence.

You can have a DC-loaded filigree for mobs and switch to a dps crossbow for bosses. I think for gear you probably want to go with a dc boosting set at 30, but there are other combos of sets you can use to get dps bonuses on top of that. You can also have swap gear for boss fights where you don't need DC. That should get you to a workable DC - whether it's worth the trade-off I am not sure. On a recent bladeforged paladin past life I ran greater color spray for leveling all the way to 29 and then switched to dire charge for 29/30. I used casting and charisma filigree for GCS. I was really happy with the results - it made leveling so much easier.

These are all great suggestions. Thanks again. I hope somebody does embrace this idea and fulfill the dream. Maybe here: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...CC-help-wanted

However, f*** GCS. I hate it. It was/is way OP'd. DDO does this to sell things to people seeking short-term gratification, but it makes the overall quality of the game deteriorate in the long run. They need a broader perspective on the design of the game to keep things in balance. Maybe they should concentrate on more content and gear rather than more races and classes and trees because the result of all these additions is that everyone and every stat can do everything, even though it always seems to lean toward merely DPS rather than a balanced diversity of roles. Anyway, I know at this point it's a lost cause, but I remember the days when DDO was thriving and that balance was there, and I could join a party listing for my role or participate in a static party with a role.