Hearts of Blood

[crazycaren]

Please make Hearts of Blood available from heart seed turn in and/or make tokens of the twelve drop from more quests so it's not such a grind to be able to do a racial TR.
thanks!

[Smokewolf]

Well if they did that then where is the incentive for people to buy it from the DDO store?

Keep in mind that DDO’s business model is based on making critical aspects of the game tedious so that you’re more likely to buy a short-cut around the problem.

[Xgya]

Please make Hearts of Blood available from heart seed turn in and/or make tokens of the twelve drop from more quests so it's not such a grind to be able to do a racial TR.
thanks!

Heart Seeds are only easily available at level 30, so making a mechanic cost a resource you can only obtain as a level 30 character is pretty senseless.

There are already enough Epic quests to net you a Heart running them all once on Elite, and have some leftovers - and that's ignoring the raids.
It's only a grind if you refuse to run some of those quests, else, it's a normal questing routine.

You CAN make it faster by grinding the same more efficient quests, but by that point (Bargain of Blood, Devil Assault), you're the one putting yourself in the grinder, not the game.

[Aelonwy]

Heart Seeds are only easily available at level 30, so making a mechanic cost a resource you can only obtain as a level 30 character is pretty senseless.

There are already enough Epic quests to net you a Heart running them all once on Elite, and have some leftovers - and that's ignoring the raids.
It's only a grind if you refuse to run some of those quests, else, it's a normal questing routine.

You CAN make it faster by grinding the same more efficient quests, but by that point (Bargain of Blood, Devil Assault), you're the one putting yourself in the grinder, not the game.

Maybe they don't own ALL the quests that Tokens drop from, maybe they don't... and I know this is a strange concept... but maybe they don't enjoy some of the content Tokens drop from. I happen to run most of the quests from 1 to 30 on the way up. But even for me there are some quests I just don't like, don't enjoy, and would rather spend zero of my life or my leisure time in. *Looking at you Necro 3 and the Pit*

I will always advocate for more content to drop Tokens, especially epic content specifically a part of the Twelve. Its in the name after all. Of course they could go and change the name again because this has nothing to do with lore and is absolutely as Smokewolf said about creating an artificial hurdle and providing a $$ monetary short-cut to the artificial hurdle.

Reminder: I have nothing against the game making money. I have been a VIP in the past probably 3+ years of my total time here. I have the best version of every expansion pack so far. I spend on cosmetics, races, classes, character slots, shared bank, crafting storage, bags, character bank and inventory. But some of their monetized "features" rub me the wrong way. And this is one of them. Reincarnation is optional yes. But its is optional the way slaying the waves of mobs in Devil Assault is optional. Its going to happen because that is part and parcel of character development, growth and improvement in this game.

To have such a systemic "feature" of the game behind either a grindwall (if you don't own enough of the Token bearing content) or paywall is pretty much on the same standard to me as Leveling Sigils https://ddowiki.com/page/Sigil_of_Leveling which if they hadn't removed them from the game I would not be playing now.

Luckily, I own all content. I have never felt like I had to grind for a heart. But if I needed some tokens fast it sure would be more pleasant (in a GAME, a leisure activity) to have more variety to choose from to get what I would need.

Plus and no one ever seems to mention this but adding Tokens to content gives said content added purchase value. I bet if they added Tokens to the epic Madness quests even those would get bought and run more than they are today, just for variety if nothing else.

[Xgya]

Maybe they don't own ALL the quests that Tokens drop from, maybe they don't... and I know this is a strange concept... but maybe they don't enjoy some of the content Tokens drop from. I happen to run most of the quests from 1 to 30 on the way up. But even for me there are some quests I just don't like, don't enjoy, and would rather spend zero of my life or my leisure time in. *Looking at you Necro 3 and the Pit*

Plus and no one ever seems to mention this but adding Tokens to content gives said content added purchase value. I bet if they added Tokens to the epic Madness quests even those would get bought and run more than they are today, just for variety if nothing else.

Fair criticism.
As for not running quests you don't like, this goes back to my own argument about efficiency.
There are better, faster, more enjoyable ways to earn Tokens that would be qualified as "grind" as opposed to just running those quests.

Thing is, getting tokens is what gives little value to those seldom-run quests, and, as stated earlier, there are already enough quests to get a full Heart without having to repeat a single one, barring content access.

Giving more value to quests that are less run in order to make them hand out tokens would have to be balanced around the fact the current game allows for a full Heart to be earned.

The other prerequisite for quests handing out Tokens is them being of the lower epic level variety (after all, they're meant to be used by early epic characters in order to go back to heroics) and in Eberron.

The highest level quest handing out Tokens right now is 22, by design. Increasing that limit to 23 might not be that far-fetched, and as such I might see some incentive to add Tokens to seldom-run but still pretty new Epic quests, namely the ones behind the Tower (Kind of a Big Deal, Another Man's Treasure, etc.). Those make some flavor sense too, since they're actually The Twelve quests to boot, and they're among quests that aren't run that often either.

Another candidate that's still on Eberron but a bit less flavorful would be the newly revamped Catacombs. Making those quests drop token fragments would make a lick of sense.

[Aelonwy]

The other prerequisite for quests handing out Tokens is them being of the lower epic level variety (after all, they're meant to be used by early epic characters in order to go back to heroics) and in Eberron.

Fair enough, although I don't consider it a requirement as such if only because many of us go all the way to 30 before considering any type of TR, so should token drops in a mid to high level epic dungeon they would still get used all the same.

Thing is, getting tokens is what gives little value to those seldom-run quests, and, as stated earlier, there are already enough quests to get a full Heart without having to repeat a single one, barring content access.

Giving more value to quests that are less run in order to make them hand out tokens would have to be balanced around the fact the current game allows for a full Heart to be earned.

Maybe I'm being a little dense but I'm just not catching on to why this is important or even part of the equation. For me the question is grind versus variety. I can get a full heart running the same quest over and over or I can earn tokens running a variety of quests that I enjoy... except I've run the current Token baring quests many times already and quite frankly I'm getting bored with them. Either one is going to cause burnout eventually. If there is a predetermined limit on Token quests by the idea that it has to be what can earn a heart and NO MORE than for me its an arbitrary, ill-considered, antiquated concept from when the game was smaller, TR lives were fewer and even Max level cap was lower. But ALL of that has changed in the intervening years. Token content needs to change with it.

[Xgya]

Fair enough, although I don't consider it a requirement as such if only because many of us go all the way to 30 before considering any type of TR, so should token drops in a mid to high level epic dungeon they would still get used all the same.

Maybe I'm being a little dense but I'm just not catching on to why this is important or even part of the equation. For me the question is grind versus variety. I can get a full heart running the same **** quest over and over or I can earn tokens running a variety of quests that I enjoy... except I've run the current Token baring quests many times already and quite frankly I'm getting bored with them. Either one is going to cause burnout eventually. If there is a predetermined limit on Token quests by the idea that it has to be what can earn a heart and NO MORE than for me its an arbitrary, ill-considered, antiquated concept from when the game was smaller, TR lives were fewer and even Max level cap was lower. But ALL of that has changed in the intervening years. Token content needs to change with it.

Frankly, if there was an argument for adding tokens to older quests, it'd have to be high level HEROIC quests, not higher Epic ones.

The token system is built to have characters that have reached heroic cap TR. Given that fact, characters that will soon be able to Heroic TR should have a way to earn tokens, much like Epic characters can (very) slowly rake up credits towards their own next TR via Commendations.

Doing Shavarath, or Cannith could give token fragments or even full tokens for the longer quests in there.
Cannith already has a deal with The Twelve, since their challenges can reward tokens, so it's a fitting spot.
Shavarath and the Tower intrinsically linked, whether they like it or not.
Up for consideration would be the Heart of Madness chain (alright, that'd make a good argument for also letting the epic version hand tokens out), and IQ 1/2.

The closest we ever got to a change with Tokens is their complete removal with no plans of replacing them with something else. This is one of the reasons I'm less inclined to want changes to it in the first place.

[MasterKernel]

Please make Hearts of Blood available from heart seed turn in and/or make tokens of the twelve drop from more quests so it's not such a grind to be able to do a racial TR.
thanks!

Going from 20 to 30 gives more than enough tokens for TR. And after 3-4 lives you wouldn't know what to do with all of the tokens that clog your inventory space.

[Hawklynn]

I also found the acquiring of Tokens of the Twelve a bit of a downer when it comes time to perform a Racial or Heroic TR. Returning to the game, I re-fell in love with the Heroic Levels, going from 1-20. The Racial TR was a bit of incentive, but primarily it was running Heroic quests in Reaper to recall memories of the first year playing DDO .. getting my a** spanked.

For me, it's when I hit level 20, there is this surge of excitement to TR, and get back to Level 1. Then I realize "Oh ****, I've only got 2 Tokens". A minor bummed feeling kicks in knowing I gotta do some grinding to get those 18 Tokens. It's not always bad since some of those quests are fun, but it's (for my solo playstyle) about 3-5 days. A small buzz-kill. Yes I could buy the Heart, but I like the incentive to get something for free.

The list of quests to acquire Tokens is fair, although about 5-6 being Raids. Yet, we have all run them many times.

https://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Token_...20the%20Twelve.

Some changes SSG could add, which are not really much of a game-changer are:

(1) Add some Bonus Day Weekends for 'Double Fragments/Tokens of the Twelve". They have Double Commendations of Valor and Challenge Ingredients Boosts (Vault of the Artificers Trade-In for Tokens) weekends already so this shouldn't be an issue. It also adds some incentive for players to hit up these quests. It would be a **** to be leveling in the Heroics (i.e. - Sitting at level 12) when this bonus weekend comes around (so this doesn't help the OP), but it might add incentive to get a 2nd toon to Level 20 and be ready to use this bonus weekend.

https://ddowiki.com/page/Bonus_Days

(2) DDO Store to purchase single Tokens of the Twelve. A 'True Heart of Blood' is 1495. Just make 1 Token 100 DP, so you can fill in that gap for the last few.

(3) Increase the monster kill Token Fragment random drops to 5 (I think it's currently 1). It's a small improvement. Or just add a 100TP consumable, 3 hour maybe, to make the drops a total of 5.

I write this being thankful I built up 40 Tokens for a fast 2 more Hearts but now am realizing that 3rd one will take a weekend to get the Heart.

[Alfhild]

The list of quests to acquire Tokens is fair, although about 5-6 being Raids. Yet, we have all run them many times.

https://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Token_...20the%20Twelve.

That list does not include the easiest way to gain Tokens. Even if you do not own the House C challenges, you can collect a daily token that allows you to run them. The Epic challenges are available at L21. At L21 run them at L25. Convert the mats to Tokens of the Twelve.