Addons/Meters

[Nammmmmmm]

Would it be possible to have addons in ddo? Similar to wow. (I know im gonna get some hate for this) But to have a DPS meter of you and your party would be really beneficial to see how you stack up in that R10 quest/raid. (While kills can help represent ones DPS, they are not always accurate to ones damage.)

I know dozens of people who'd be willing to pay for a higher tier of VIP if options were made.

[MsE]

Horrible idea. DDO is filled with elitist jerks who think they're better than everyone else and you give the a meter to "prove" it? That would destroy the game faster than anything before.

Why is it a problem? The cleric doesn't do DPS, maybe the Favored soul stopped DPS and started healing because the "tank" was gimp. The Sorc who only does CC has no DPS.

How do you account for the wizard who does instakills? Does he get credit for all the remaining hit points? It doesn't work that way in the combat logs. An instakill has 0 DPS.

So the party "leader" blacklists most of these people because they suck at DPS and ******* at the cleric for not throwing harm or ass inflict spells and the elitist jerks get more elitist until the game turns to WOW and we all quit because if we wanted to play WOW we wouldn't be playing DDO.

[red_kain]

Having a DPS meter for yourself can help you improve and test your damage. Having a DPS meter measuring everyone in the group is a sure way to alienate most of them.

[Nammmmmmm]

The party leader shouldn't complain about healers or isntakillers not doing any dps. If they do they are morons.

Me saying I want to see how my DPS adds up live compared to others isnt turning it into wow. I could just wait for lamania to try some new uber cookie cutter build, but thats annoying.

Itd just be an easier how to see group performance, and how noticeable debuffs affect bosses. If im an alchemist debuffing a boss, shouldnt it feel good seeing DPS builds pown that R10 doom reaper?

[Nammmmmmm]

Having a DPS meter for yourself can help you improve and test your damage. Having a DPS meter measuring everyone in the group is a sure way to alienate most of them.

Having a way to turn it on and off would be a cool idea.

Also could run the addon as % ver total party to see how far the gap is.

[red_kain]

The point is, no matter how you implement it, it will abused in ways that negatively impact the social aspects of the game.

[Nammmmmmm]

The point is, no matter how you implement it, it will abused in ways that negatively impact the social aspects of the game.

Itd also make more plainly balance changes need to be made. And itd make the game more competetive. (If we ever get to a larger player base, which i understand is unlikely)

[Seph1roth5]

just need an airship amenity that's a separate room that has a real training dummy you can use all your attacks on. Then it can measure your literal DPS.

Maybe with options to change it's type.

[Nammmmmmm]

just need an airship amenity that's a separate room that has a real training dummy you can use all your attacks on. Then it can measure your literal DPS.

Maybe with options to change it's type.

Id definetly be satisfied with a boss kobold similar to the one on lamania. Id definetly be willing to spend ddo points on that

[Carpone]

Add-ons, threat meters, healing meters and DPS meters would be most welcome.

Realistically, it ain't happening. It would require a complete overhaul of the UI, and there's no plan to make that happen even with the constant demand for 4k display support.

[Carpone]

Horrible idea. DDO is filled with elitist jerks who think they're better than everyone else and you give the a meter to "prove" it? That would destroy the game faster than anything before.

Inaccurate.

Healing/threat/damage meters provides immediate feedback to players to let them know how they are performing. There are plenty of builds that look excellent on paper or in a character planner, but in reality they are horrible once the rubber meets the road. The vast majority of players in this game do not have an objective viewpoint when it comes to what they think they are contributing to a group or raid, whether it be healing throughout, holding aggro, or DPS. DDO is a math driven game under the hood, yet players have no insight into that unless they're part of the very small quant community. Number of kills is the only feedback players get during a quest, and it's simply not enough.

Meters and the analysis websites that accompany them also provide insight into why a group/raid failed. Trying to push skulls on your favorite raid, but don't understand why your tank keeps dying? Healing and damage-taken data are invaluable for figuring that out. The combat log is simply insufficient to figure that out -- it doesn't even have time stamps.

[droid327]

IAnd itd make the game more competetive.

Thats exactly why its a BAD idea. Competition breeds elitism, e-peenery, and general toxicity. DDO is supposed to be supportive, not competitive.

Healing/threat/damage meters provides immediate feedback to players to let them know how they are performing. There are plenty of builds that look excellent on paper or in a character planner, but in reality they are horrible once the rubber meets the road.

Counterpoint...the only metric that really matters is one you dont need a meter for, and that's "are you actually completing quests at the level you want to, and how easy does it feel?" That's where the rubber meets the road, ultimately.

If you need a meter to know you're bad, if its not subjectively apparently just by playing...are you actually that bad?

[Stravix]

Thats exactly why its a BAD idea. Competition breeds elitism, e-peenery, and general toxicity. DDO is supposed to be supportive, not competitive.



Counterpoint...the only metric that really matters is one you dont need a meter for, and that's "are you actually completing quests at the level you want to, and how easy does it feel?" That's where the rubber meets the road, ultimately.

If you need a meter to know you're bad, if its not subjectively apparently just by playing...are you actually that bad?

hard disagree. As a tank, how can you tell if you should invest in extra threat? being able to see threat generation relative to other players is an amazing way to fine tune a build. If i am holding agro, but don't know if i need that extra threatgen, there is no way to determine if i could be doing something else with that "overcapped' threatgen.

Would you say every MMO is elitist because you can actually see what you are doing relative to everyone else? So why would that apply here?

[Tobril]

Inaccurate.

Healing/threat/damage meters provides immediate feedback to players to let them know how they are performing. There are plenty of builds that look excellent on paper or in a character planner, but in reality they are horrible once the rubber meets the road. The vast majority of players in this game do not have an objective viewpoint when it comes to what they think they are contributing to a group or raid, whether it be healing throughout, holding aggro, or DPS. DDO is a math driven game under the hood, yet players have no insight into that unless they're part of the very small quant community. Number of kills is the only feedback players get during a quest, and it's simply not enough.

Meters and the analysis websites that accompany them also provide insight into why a group/raid failed. Trying to push skulls on your favorite raid, but don't understand why your tank keeps dying? Healing and damage-taken data are invaluable for figuring that out. The combat log is simply insufficient to figure that out -- it doesn't even have time stamps.

Agree 100%

If I may add on,


Meters and analysis tools help with:

What order do I use short term boosts and abilities?
What gearset is performing better?
Am I missing activations?
Is my threat too high/low?
Do I miss to many attacks/spells and need to adjust?


RE: Elitisim

I saw a small rise in this behavior when HP totals were changed from private to public.

What I also saw then was people helping out that 150 HP sorc who just did their first shroud.


There's also been a surge in new/returning players. I've seen a healthy amount of loot runs, basic build/gear discussions, and general helpfulness in various communities.

I've found the DDO population is more positive and helpful than not when discussing build/performance opportunities.

[MsE]

The party leader shouldn't complain about healers or isntakillers not doing any dps. If they do they are morons.

Which the game is full of.

The point is, no matter how you implement it, it will abused in ways that negatively impact the social aspects of the game.

This.

Itd also make more plainly balance changes need to be made. And itd make the game more competetive. (If we ever get to a larger player base, which i understand is unlikely)

There is no balance in DDO and there never will be, so this makes no sense.

Inaccurate

Lies and you know it but don't want to admit it. You've been around long enough to know it would kill the game due to abuse. Do you not remember the days of forcing pugs to link metalline weapons or you reject them from Shroud or VoD runs? Same thing, bigger scale.

Thats exactly why its a BAD idea. Competition breeds elitism, e-peenery, and general toxicity. DDO is supposed to be supportive, not competitive.

This.

hard disagree. As a tank, how can you tell if you should invest in extra threat? .

Because that metric is already on the character sheet or can be easily figured out by adding basic numbers.

Overall, SSG needs to implement the test dojo from Lamannia into a ship amenity. This would essentially resolve the issue and give everyone a method of measure without attempting to destroy the community.

[Tobril]

Add-ons, threat meters, healing meters and DPS meters would be most welcome.

Realistically, it ain't happening. It would require a complete overhaul of the UI, and there's no plan to make that happen even with the constant demand for 4k display support.

Oh man, having something like WeakAuras from WoW would be amazing...

Even just being able to adjust how buffs and debuffs are displayed would be sweet.

[Stravix]

(Snip)
Because that metric is already on the character sheet or can be easily figured out by adding basic numbers.

Overall, SSG needs to implement the test dojo from Lamannia into a ship amenity. This would essentially resolve the issue and give everyone a method of measure without attempting to destroy the community.

No, while %threat is on the character sheet, how much threat you are actually generating, vs the threat of others is not. As such, it is very hard to determine if you have gone overboard on it, and as such can sacrifice some of it to gain other benefits.

[Carpone]

Oh man, having something like WeakAuras from WoW would be amazing...

Even just being able to adjust how buffs and debuffs are displayed would be sweet.

WeakAuras would be most welcome. It's sad DDO can't even sort buffs by time remaining.

[Carpone]

Because that metric is already on the character sheet or can be easily figured out by adding basic numbers.

If only the game was that simple. Threat is generated from attacks as well (like Celestial Mandate), and tanks have some of the worst to-hit in the game. Good luck calculating threat-gen on the fly. Also, it's about comparing the threat generated compared to the highest DPS in the group/raid in realtime to determine if the tank and the DPS can actually do their jobs effectively. Raids are painful when tanks aren't generating enough threat, and the boss keeps flipping on DPS. DDO provides insufficient real-time feedback to players.

[Nammmmmmm]

There is no balance in DDO and there never will be, so this makes no sense.

to never be balanced? I love your optimism.

Overall, SSG needs to implement the test dojo from Lamannia into a ship amenity. This would essentially resolve the issue and give everyone a method of measure without attempting to destroy the community.

People would be forced to communicate and figure out how to solve their solutions together. Which would help the community. But for the RPers who arent interested in seeing any numbers, or put any effort into improve themselves? Sure. I dont wanna run with them anyways. (for the most part)

Oh man, having something like WeakAuras from WoW would be amazing...

Even just being able to adjust how buffs and debuffs are displayed would be sweet.

As far as debuffing goes, id be satisfied if when you examine the mob the debuffs can be more easily examined. Instead each time it refreshes it moves around to the front. So unless you stop everybody doing anything, you cant read it fast enough. (they should make them refresh within the same "block")