Account Wide Reaper XP reward

[Bunker]

We have seen more than a few posts about Alts and wanting incentives to play them. So here is an idea.

We have Favor unlocks for level 4 characters at 1000 favor, and level 7 characters for 3000 favor. How would a reaper xp unlock account wide?

1. It would have to be hard to achieve. At least 100 reaper points (10mil rxp) for the first unlock. And maybe the second unlock at 156 reaper points.
2. Unlocking would be account wide for all characters on that server on a single account.
3. Reward would be 10 reaper points and 20 reaper points to each character on your account.
4. If a character already has that amount of reaper points or more, they do not receive the reward. This would basically be jumpstarting your alts just like the favor reward and leveling.

Keep in mind, 10 reapers points is 100k rxp, and 20 reaper points is 400k rxp. That is a drop in the hat for players that have reached 100 and 156 reaper points.

Reaper Experience Unlocking Reward

When a character reaches 10,000,000 reaper xp, all future characters on that account start with 10 reaper points.
When a character reaches 24,336,000 reaper xp, all future characters on that account start with 20 reaper points.

Thoughts?

-Bunks

1/8/2021 update

I like where this conversation is going. Ok. Lets say we took every character on a single account. We total up all the reaper xp that your account has accumulated and once that TOTAL (of all characters on 1 account combined) hits a certain amount, that unlocks the Reaper Experience Reward.

IE.

Account Wide Total Reaper XP of 10,000,000 rewards all current and future characters access to your first 10 reaper points (100,000rxp)
Account Wide Total Reaper XP of 20,000,000 rewards all current and future characters access to your first 20 reaper points (400,000rxp)

Rewards are account based and the achievements would be unlocked on total accumulation of RXP on your account.

also.......I know that we have not seen any other cosmetic rewards, and there are more than a few that have reached the current 156 reaper points that earns the final reward of full points usable. Plat sinks have a common place in this game, but reaper wings are crazy plat sinks....Why not at 156 reaper points, you can just get your reaper cosmetics for free. Unlocking a 4th NPC that gives all cosmetics to that 1 character for free forever?

1/11/2021 update

What about an account across the board 1% that goes to every character on your account regardless of which one you play. This reward would be given to every character that you have on the same account. When you achieve a certain amount or shared reaper xp, it would unlock a bonus that is unlocked for each and every character on the account.

IE.

Each character earns rxp as normal but 1% gets accumulated into a shared rxp account. When that account gets to a certain amount, a reward is unlocked for each character on the same account.

[Aelonwy]

That's a clever idea. But it won't work for the intended purpose. The reason being I don't play enough period, let alone focus playing enough on a single character to ever, in 10 or 20 years reach even the first reaper point unlock. So would this actually help someone like me that cycles through all their characters in a "how or who do I want to play today" way? Or would this really only help someone that already focuses on only 2-3 characters and has been letting even those few alts stagnate while they max out their mini-god main?

People that play alts really need a catch-up to the mini-gods that should never have existed in the first place as seen by the extreme out-of-balance content meant to challenge these deities.

On the other hand, I think its just too late now... the proverbial cat is out of the bag. There is just too gosh-darn much stackable single character power and nothing to do about it because too much of the power is PURCHASED through boxes, through XP potions, through tomes, through hearts, through raid bypass timers even. People that have spent a ton of money maxing out their character would have every right to be ticked off if they lost any of it and I don't see the devs being willing to reduce the grind because its the grind they sell when it all comes down to it. ALL THIS^ is purchased to reduce the grind to min-max a single character and its grind baked into every aspect of the game purposefully to sell those grind-reducers.

Once upon a time I advocated something similar but not a favor or reaper pt unlock, a purchased Account unlock like Shared Bank. Its just another grind-reducer, like everything else. But like XP tomes I'm much more willing to buy something that is either permanent or affects all my characters simultaneously. I buy Shared Bank, I buy crafting storage, I buy content, Universal Trees, Classes, Races, Expansions and so far I have all the top tier expansions because they usually come with something for ALL my characters at once. A purchased or purchase-able Account doohickey that some how shares or shares a portion of the earned Reaper XP would be worthwhile and useful to someone with many alts. Because those of us that play a lot of different characters recognize one thing that no one can successfully argue against... it doesn't matter which character I'm playing... its still my time, its still me behind that screen on that keyboard, its my money that gets spent not my bards' not my cleric's not my rogues'... me, mine... all of them, every one. Forget about reducing the grind for a single character... reduce the gosh darn grind for the player behind the screen.

[Carpone]

It's quite obvious SSG has no intention of ever making past lives or RXP account wide. No surprise, since there is no financial incentive for them to do so.

If you want RXP on an alt, then run the alt through reapers. Anything else is overcomplicating it.

[ggmarquez]

Anything else is overcomplicating it.

it's obvious the game was designed with account-based support in mind. if they want us to take those 40 character slots seriously, they need to offer equitable incentives for every character that will log in-quest hours. anything else is over-simplifying it.

[Bunker]

It's quite obvious SSG has no intention of ever making past lives or RXP account wide. No surprise, since there is no financial incentive for them to do so.

If you want RXP on an alt, then run the alt through reapers. Anything else is overcomplicating it.

I agree with this. No reason not to suggest options. especially options that give alts a little bump, but in the grand scheme of total rxp, only a 1% bump in total rxp to start off.

[ggmarquez]

...since there is no financial incentive for them to do so.

additional character slot : 625 ddo points.
supreme ability tome : 3995 ddo points.
greater tome of learning : 1595 ddo points.
... of epic learning : 1295 ddo points.
inventory space : 595 ddo points. (x3)
bank space : 595 ddo points. (x3)
bags, boosts, bling : a lot of ddo points

now multiply the right side by however many characters a payer decides they actually want to play competitively.
yup. no incentive at all.

[Carpone]

additional character slot : 625 ddo points.
supreme ability tome : 3995 ddo points.
greater tome of learning : 1595 ddo points.
... of epic learning : 1295 ddo points.
inventory space : 595 ddo points. (x3)
bank space : 595 ddo points. (x3)
bags, boosts, bling : a lot of ddo points

now multiply the right side by however many characters a payer decides they actually want to play competitively.
yup. no incentive at all.

That has nothing to do with reaper. People already have spent those points on alts without reaper points, or without the past lives.

[ggmarquez]

That has nothing to do with reaper. People already have spent those points on alts without reaper points, or without the past lives.

everything in ddo, as it exists today, has everything to do with reaper. people already have? which people exactly? i should assume i'm speaking to a data analyst... so show some numbers buddy. if you are correct, then the majority of the player-base has already purchased max character slots, +8's, huge bags and tomes of learning for all 40 characters. if you are wrong, then there is absolutely an incentive to share rxp/past lives/all character progression across an entire account.

The only difference now is that I have two characters instead of four: One at cap to raid with, and one I am constantly getting first time RXP at cap then TRing.

so you admit in a different thread that you are down to playing 2 of 4 characters... out of the 40 available. doesn't take a rocket scientist to see what's going on here...

[Bunker]

That's a clever idea. But it won't work for the intended purpose. The reason being I don't play enough period, let alone focus playing enough on a single character to ever, in 10 or 20 years reach even the first reaper point unlock. So would this actually help someone like me that cycles through all their characters in a "how or who do I want to play today" way? Or would this really only help someone that already focuses on only 2-3 characters and has been letting even those few alts stagnate while they max out their mini-god main?

People that play alts really need a catch-up to the mini-gods that should never have existed in the first place as seen by the extreme out-of-balance content meant to challenge these deities.

On the other hand, I think its just too late now... the proverbial cat is out of the bag. There is just too gosh-darn much stackable single character power and nothing to do about it because too much of the power is PURCHASED through boxes, through XP potions, through tomes, through hearts, through raid bypass timers even. People that have spent a ton of money maxing out their character would have every right to be ticked off if they lost any of it and I don't see the devs being willing to reduce the grind because its the grind they sell when it all comes down to it. ALL THIS^ is purchased to reduce the grind to min-max a single character and its grind baked into every aspect of the game purposefully to sell those grind-reducers.

Once upon a time I advocated something similar but not a favor or reaper pt unlock, a purchased Account unlock like Shared Bank. Its just another grind-reducer, like everything else. But like XP tomes I'm much more willing to buy something that is either permanent or affects all my characters simultaneously. I buy Shared Bank, I buy crafting storage, I buy content, Universal Trees, Classes, Races, Expansions and so far I have all the top tier expansions because they usually come with something for ALL my characters at once. A purchased or purchase-able Account doohickey that some how shares or shares a portion of the earned Reaper XP would be worthwhile and useful to someone with many alts. Because those of us that play a lot of different characters recognize one thing that no one can successfully argue against... it doesn't matter which character I'm playing... its still my time, its still me behind that screen on that keyboard, its my money that gets spent not my bards' not my cleric's not my rogues'... me, mine... all of them, every one. Forget about reducing the grind for a single character... reduce the gosh darn grind for the player behind the screen.

Yes, I see your point. If it takes forever to get the reward, what is the point of the reward. Keep grinding Aelonwy, you'll get there.

[Airmaiden]

Account wide reaper xp is not required. ( you do not need RxP to be viable in reaper content).

Also, if you want reaper xp on an alt, play the alt from 1-30 ( even on R1 quests up to level 29, you should achieve around 200K RxP), then run the 84 level 30 quests ( double reaper XP). (even on R2-3, this would be 252,000 RxP.....assuming you got 3K per quest) for a total of 452K RxP ( 21 reaper points) BOOM, alt reaper for Low reaper fun and end game raids.

Note: I am assuming this is an Alt and not a new player! So, you would already have gear for this toon. Fey, RL and or Sharn.



If the OP wants to promote Alt play, maybe suggest that regular XP be capped for the first 9 lives at 1.9 million (For Level 20). ( this would help alt play AND New players to the game).

[Aelonwy]

Yes, I see your point. If it takes forever to get the reward, what is the point of the reward. Keep grinding Aelonwy, you'll get there.

I don't want to grind. I want to play. I don't log in saying "yup I'm gonna put my nose to the grindstone and grind me out some XP and past lives." I log in thinking "oh I haven't played my druid in awhile, I'm going to go hunt down some hobgoblins as a bear and claw and bite and crush 'em!" or "gee I haven't done Ravenloft in ages who do I have at level for that... oh look its my Warchanter, get ready creepy-crawlies I'm about to invade the mists!" And sometimes I log in and go "oh I just hate this cloak or I'm tired of that armor... I'm going to look for something else."

I just want to play, whomever I want to play, whenever I want to play them and being penalized (by escalating mob stats if nothing else) by not focusing and working on a single character is ridiculous in a game - a game, no part of this hobby should feel like a chore or work or IMHO there is a failure at the design level.

[ggmarquez]

Account wide bank space is not required. ( you do not need a shared bank be viable in reaper content).

Also, if you want gear sets on an alt, play the alt from 1-30 ( even on R1 quests up to level 29, you should achieve optimal gear sets in a few lives), then run the 84 level 30 quests (now that you have basic gear filled). (even on R2-3, this would be 35% chance for named gear to drop) for a decent gear set-up for each alt. BOOM, alt gear for Low reaper fun and end game raids.

i like you firegodess. you don't want to be able to roll a fresh 'toon with 200 reaper points just because you've already got it on your main. it's admirable. but a lot of us have more characters than we have reaper points, and we also pay for the privilege to play this great game. from your point of view sharing rxp between characters might not make sense... but from a different perspective (100 characters each with only 10 reaper points or so) things seem not so cut-and-dry.

[caberonia]

Snip

As someone with probably one of the worst cases of altitus this is the bottom line.

The truth is I just solo E or H on alts or i'll join an R1 if its a particularly well built alt but reaper is a seperate game the majority of my alts don't bother with. Even when on my main i've found myself joining a "reaper" LFM only to find it R6 or higher and that's just not my version of fun (protect X NPC or fail quest is just extreme masochism on mid to high reapers in my mind) so I'll finish the quest and nicely leave after.

The sad truth is reaper created a completely separate game that is almost unapproachable from a new player perspective. As a newer player When 99% of LFMs are for reaper. unless you really like soloing(difficulties you could actually contribute in) or piking in difficulties your likely to be one shot or killed if you don't just stand there your probably just gonna log and play something else. Sure older long time players who are already invested in the game are more than happy to pike for XP.. but a new player isn't going to find this engaging or fun.. and the chances of them continuing that type of play cycle is low at best. That being said the Reaper and champ systems have sailed and all we can do is attempt to keep plugging the holes in the titanic.

The bottom line is at some point they decided for whatever reason (financial, whales rolled a d20 w.e the reasoning no longer matters) to focus the game in such a way that playing ONE main character is the only way to evere participate with the majority of other players and that decision has been the building block of updates and additions long enough that there really is no fixing it or going back short of allowing Alts to be used as hires since that's about the only aspect of the game they are still slightly better than the default on.

I'm not against ANYTHING to reverse the course... I'm all for anything to try to help with the wall of power built on single character grind. I just don't believe the Devs will do anything for it and what little they do won't really fix it. My only hope is to allow alts to be used as hires since then at least alts have a purpose.

Edit: Heck give me a server with no Champs or reaper. Elite is the hardest and champs don't exist and I will personally transfer EVERY character I have there.. as far as i'm concerned Reaper and champs have done more harm to my playin enjoyment then good. Call it the SOFT core server..and you won't ever see me on another server again. I can opt out of reaper.. but Champs was a forced change that still grinds my gears. IMHO the addition of champs and the rage quitting that followed chased far more players away than we have gained SINCE THEN.

Why oh why didn't they skip the champs.. add reaper.. then add champs to reaper if reaper wasn't performing. They way they handled that whole thing seemed completely backward. Increase the 2 highest difficulties based completely on RNG.. then add 10 new harder difficulties. If no one can see the logical issue with the series of events there then you might just work for SSG.

IF they had put the 2 together IE champs are only seen in reaper then It wouldn't **** me off still til this day.. but they added champs to Hard and elite.. and then when that didn't provide the challenge they wanted they added reaper on top of it. Any sane individual would have either scrapped champs since it didn't succeed in it's stated goal or rolled them into the new reaper system.. not just leave them in place just to troll new players.

How many broken systems do you need to layer. Why would you retroactively change WHOLE difficulty settings to make them harder then Add 10 new harder difficulty settings. So not only did you increase the difficulty of the base game you added a whole new system for those who were still complaining about enough challenge. At what point will the devs stop or at least pause catering to the 1% of power players. (IF there was any sign there was no Long term plan for the game and they were just completely winging it the addition of champs and THEN reaper is it) This goes back to the whole fixing things they fixed because the fix they used to fix the fix didn't fix it. Go back.. remove champs from Hard and Elite for us normal players.. then do whatever you want in the reaper modes for those players who want greater challenge. Don't make the entire base game harder then add 10 new harder difficulty settings as well just to prove your failed mechanics didn't' work but you refuse to admit it and fix what you broke.

I advocate for creating a different game in the way Reaper and champs created a different game for the main Power gamers. Let us use our alts as Hires because no matter what you do at this point that first life alt I just created isn't joining your R6 Zerg harbor LFM. We have to accept that the player base is fragmented and Provide a version of the game for each of the 2 major categories or we simply will bleed the ones we don't cater to. (alt players will continue to leave until only the only play one main char population is all thats left and if SSG is happy with that then they are doing a good job of promoting it)

I could rant all day about that whole thing so imma just shut up now, not only because the champ/reaper debacle ****es me off the more I think about it but also because as many times as I've posted trying to get ANY dev to understand how broke they've made the game I have yet to see any sign of them actually reading it more or less making any changes based on feedback.. and generally do the exact opposite and simply double down on the problem by implementing a new system that just makes the issue worse.

[Airmaiden]

i like you firegodess. you don't want to be able to roll a fresh 'toon with 200 reaper points just because you've already got it on your main. it's admirable. but a lot of us have more characters than we have reaper points, and we also pay for the privilege to play this great game. from your point of view sharing rxp between characters might not make sense... but from a different perspective (100 characters each with only 10 reaper points or so) things seem not so cut-and-dry.

I agree with you if you are playing that many toons on your account, then the light at the end of the tunnel is not even in your sights yet. I only play 4 toons now. I use to play 8 before reaper came to DDO, then decided to put my sprint shoes on =)

I am currently running 4 at level 30 and started another toon a few days ago ( old toon with 2 PL's), just to have another toon for raids and farming gear.

I would suggest deciding on 6 toons ( different styles of play for each) and try to keep them at different levels so that you could ( at anytime) see an LFM and join in for some fun. But, I know all about "Alt-itis" and if that is what you like, then have fun and enjoy the game.

I am not a big fan of running a New toon at higher reaper levels, but for end game raiding ( assuming you have some good gear for the build), it can be fun and nice to be able to say " if we need a Trapper/ healer/ DPS/ etc", I can log onto mine =)

[Artos_Fabril]

I would suggest deciding on 6 toons ( different styles of play for each) and try to keep them at different levels so that you could ( at anytime) see an LFM and join in for some fun.

What we have here, is a failure to communicate.

[slarden]

It's quite obvious SSG has no intention of ever making past lives or RXP account wide. No surprise, since there is no financial incentive for them to do so.

I've long given up on the idea that SSG would support alt play better and adjusted accordingly, but in terms of financial incentives here is what they lost from me:

1) store tomes - I would purchase the top store tome on all my alts - playing much fewer characters now I purchase much fewer store tomes than I used to
2) Chest rerolls - fewer characters means fewer rerolls
3) Otto boxes - simply don't need them with fewer characters - SSG can see my declining purchase history
4) Other purchases - having many characters means making purchases to shortcut the grind - all those things are lost

SSG is leaving money on the table at least from me - they might have more data where it's not the case with others or perhaps the cost of supporting alt play isn't worth it.

I don't care what SSG does - I just roll with it - but I think SSG would make more money not only supporting alt play but encouraging it (having things like daily or weekly things that making having good alts beneficial) and if they analyze the data it's way more money than they would ever make from expanding reaper trees or things that appeal to a very small player base.

As for the op suggestion I don't think it's needed if you play alts. You can get 21 reaper points to get the +1 con and +120 hp outside of reaper by running most of the level 30+ quests on R4 with a potion or R6 without a potion. This is what I've done for 2 raiding characters , but they are simply to fill a needed role in a raid like a tank/healer and you don't need to make any other store purchases or do any grinding for those to fill roles in LH raids.

[Stoner81]

What we have here, is a failure to communicate.

Some men/women, you just can't reach...

Stoner81.

[slarden]

For those of you that like alt play I will tell you what we did with our 3-person static group. We created some new FTP accounts to run with us and effectively double up on past lifes and rxp (2 characters gaining instead of 1). Nearly 4 years laters I have maxed characters on both accounts. There are massive advantages to doing this instead of having alts on the same account, but you need to give up VIP unless you want to pay twice.

[Chacka_DDO]

That has nothing to do with reaper. People already have spent those points on alts without reaper points, or without the past lives.

First of all microtransaction and "pay to win" expectations should not matter when you try to make a good game...
But of course, I know SSG needs also to earn money with DDO therefore such a change should have at least no major negative impact on the revenue.

But the point is I personally strongly believe that account-based (long term) character progression makes DDO a better game for everyone who wants to play more characters and if we have such a feature in DDO certainly more players will be interested in playing more characters.
And this has also effects on the revenue for SSG.
The only possible negative effect for the revenue would be if a LOT of whales would actually buy a lot of Otto's boxes for their alts but I doubt this is the case.
But it is even possible that more (stupid) Otto's boxes will be sold among the majority of normal players because they suddenly have more value for them (because they affect the whole account)
But one thing is almost certain, character-based DDO Store things like more space tomes, etc will be more often sold.

My estimation is that SSG will not lose money and revenue if they introduce the feature of account-based character progression, it is entirely possible that they will even win more money with that.
I strongly believe such a change would cause a win-win result for SSG and the players!

And by the way, I would not expect such a feature to be completely free, it could be a part of a special expansion so everyone who is seriously interested in playing many characters could spend a reasonable amount of additional money for this feature.
Not to mention that introducing such a feature is of course some serious work for the development if you do it right and alone for this it is just fair to expect some money from the players.

[slarden]

And by the way, I would not expect such a feature to be completely free, it could be a part of a special expansion so everyone who is seriously interested in playing many characters could spend a reasonable amount of additional money for this feature.
Not to mention that introducing such a feature is of course some serious work for the development if you do it right and alone for this it is just fair to expect some money from the players.

Interesting, you are right on the monetization. I never thought about it but I would be willing to pay for account based progression.