Thoughts on Monk changes

[Tianie]

Anyone know when they are going to make changes to the Monk?

[Tilomere]

If you look at Paladin, they have a cleave called Holy retribution.

And it used to have a 6 second cooldown, so you used to spam it for tons of AoE damage and instant kills as you leveled in heroics, and then it got nerfed.

[Paisheng]

From the rumors I have heard or read, the Devs are improving ki strike finishers to be only 2 clickies then the finisher instead of the current 3 clickies then the finisher. This is very good.

However I have also heard that Whirlwind is being nerfed to be just like great cleave (so what's the point?). As someone posted earlier this is the bread and butter aoe especially for the hand wrap monk. I hope they change their minds to keep it like it is and bring up the effectiveness of other weapons using it rather than nerfing the open hand whirlwind.

One of my greatest concerns if rumors are true is that the devs have changed the Shintao tree removing the Jade Strike and Tomb of Jade. These are the only Crowd Control strikes that monks have that work on reapers. Unless you change stunning strike to affect reapers please maintain the Jade of Strike and Tomb of Jade. Monks deserve at least one means of controlling reapers -- not to mention these are some of the most beautiful visual effects in the fighting game!

[peng]

From the rumors I have heard or read, the Devs are improving ki strike finishers to be only 2 clickies then the finisher instead of the current 3 clickies then the finisher. This is very good.

However I have also heard that Whirlwind is being nerfed to be just like great cleave (so what's the point?). As someone posted earlier this is the bread and butter aoe especially for the hand wrap monk. I hope they change their minds to keep it like it is and bring up the effectiveness of other weapons using it rather than nerfing the open hand whirlwind.

One of my greatest concerns if rumors are true is that the devs have changed the Shintao tree removing the Jade Strike and Tomb of Jade. These are the only Crowd Control strikes that monks have that work on reapers. Unless you change stunning strike to affect reapers please maintain the Jade of Strike and Tomb of Jade. Monks deserve at least one means of controlling reapers -- not to mention these are some of the most beautiful visual effects in the fighting game!

Fewer stirkes for finishers? Nice.

Nerf whirlwind? That's a big frowny face.

Get rid of jade? That's another frowny face. However, kukan-do (ranged stun from t5 shintao) and shining star (lvl 20 monk earth>wind>fire melee finishing move resistible dance) also work on reapers.

[Eme]

my main is a monk. It has been fine tuned over the years and fits my play style perfectly.
Previous monk nerfs have pushed me to leave the game for years before I could face coming back. If these new changes change my playstyle to something I don't enjoy I will be gone again.

[Thugblood]

I really like monks. However, to be effective you need ki, which is generated by hitting things. This makes it difficult to run in groups with casters and ranged-weapons characters. By the time the monk runs up to the mob, the mob are dead or quickly die and the monk is prevented from generating ki. Maybe ki has to go, or monk gets some ki when other party members kill mobs, or ki generates faster. That would be nice.

[Nickodeamous]

From the rumors I have heard or read, the Devs are improving ki strike finishers to be only 2 clickies then the finisher instead of the current 3 clickies then the finisher. This is very good.

However I have also heard that Whirlwind is being nerfed to be just like great cleave (so what's the point?). As someone posted earlier this is the bread and butter aoe especially for the hand wrap monk. I hope they change their minds to keep it like it is and bring up the effectiveness of other weapons using it rather than nerfing the open hand whirlwind.

One of my greatest concerns if rumors are true is that the devs have changed the Shintao tree removing the Jade Strike and Tomb of Jade. These are the only Crowd Control strikes that monks have that work on reapers. Unless you change stunning strike to affect reapers please maintain the Jade of Strike and Tomb of Jade. Monks deserve at least one means of controlling reapers -- not to mention these are some of the most beautiful visual effects in the fighting game!

Tomb of Jade and Jade Strikes are essential Monk enhancements that must remain in the game. Why on earth would anybody hit 3 buttons to stun a reaper (shining star), or use kukan-do (which I cant for the life of me just spam out without first selecting the mob to hit. This is unacceptable.

Listen, my endgame main, and only build, is a monk. I have 123 out of 156 past lives and I still remain true to the monk after all of the nerfs. I can care less about the ki strikes, and I already have enough buttons to push. Why should an alchemist (who btw has evasion), be able to hold any mob while chucking 4 multivials for an instant death from a mile away, when I monk has to jump into the battle, and then relies heavily on stunning.

I only play a handwrap monk, and we need the following:

1. AOE attack on par with other AOE attacks (1 button). This should scale with melee power at whatever % gets it there. There is nothing in Tier 6 that says "hey, once I hit level 12, I can just use this one ability until 20". We have WWA right now for that, and I dont care if it takes 4 feats to get ti, leave it alone, or you will KILL the handwrap monk.

2. Stunning attacks that affect reapers/undead. Here is where you leave Tomb of Jade alone. Hey, if I jade a reaper, it often doesn't matter (see Vengeance), or it is being held by some other caster in the party, but if I am soling, I need this. (and I am not going to do a finishing move to do the same thing...not gonna happen)

3. Multiple versions of an AOE attack. Lets face it, Spring attack is utter garbage (some will beg to differ here), but its worthless to me. Put an AOE attack in the enhancement trees like barbarian or pally has. It doesn't have to be much, but why isn't there one there anyway? Give it a +1/+2/+3W progression and scale it off of Melee power. Make it Tier 6.

4. MRR Cap - yes please. no need to delve into how utterly horrible it is in R1+ raids

What i handwraps monks don't need (in my opinion only):

1. more ki attacks: (if you stop giving ki bonus on doublestrike, I agree with what somebody said, what's the point if the mob is dead when you get there.

2. more buttons, more problems...and finishing moves: Ok, so I have to push 3 buttons to get to the finishing move now, and you may make 2? Who cares when that's 2 more buttons I need to push (and keymap) on top of the other 15+ or so I have to use as a monk. On top of the speed nerf and the underwhelming max of 15% melee attack speed (unless you are a bard and get that extra 3% from the epic Destiny), monks max out at 15% (without haste boost).

Give us a chance to survive guys. Don't kill the class to make it vanilla. Removing/nerfing monks is bad for the game. I have stuck by for all of the nerfs and kept coming back, but I would have a hard time after this if what is being said is true.

Nico

[Vish]

It's a good thing they nerfed EiN eh? Imagine how terrible the lag would be if all 5 people still playing monks on each server were using EiN...

How many monks in the game?

My guess was 10, maybe 20 tops

[Paisheng]

Fewer stirkes for finishers? Nice.

Nerf whirlwind? That's a big frowny face.

Get rid of jade? That's another frowny face. However, kukan-do (ranged stun from t5 shintao) and shining star (lvl 20 monk earth>wind>fire melee finishing move resistible dance) also work on reapers.

According to my sources kukan-do was also removed from the Shintao tree. The tree gave more dps with the redesign but at the cost of cc strikes. As another post pointed out, that is doom for the solo monk in reaper. They need both Tomb of Jade, Jade Strike, and Kukan-do as essentials for the monk to have reliable cc for champs -- or any cc for reaper (not to mention these are perfect for the flavor and fun of Shintao monk).

[Strider1963]

Good ideas but they already know what's gonna change and no feedback will have effect on their decisions

I hope I am wrong.

This ^^^^^

[Logicman69]

Tomb of Jade and Jade Strikes are essential Monk enhancements that must remain in the game. Why on earth would anybody hit 3 buttons to stun a reaper (shining star), or use kukan-do (which I cant for the life of me just spam out without first selecting the mob to hit. This is unacceptable.

Listen, my endgame main, and only build, is a monk. I have 123 out of 156 past lives and I still remain true to the monk after all of the nerfs. I can care less about the ki strikes, and I already have enough buttons to push. Why should an alchemist (who btw has evasion), be able to hold any mob while chucking 4 multivials for an instant death from a mile away, when I monk has to jump into the battle, and then relies heavily on stunning.

I only play a handwrap monk, and we need the following:

1. AOE attack on par with other AOE attacks (1 button). This should scale with melee power at whatever % gets it there. There is nothing in Tier 6 that says "hey, once I hit level 12, I can just use this one ability until 20". We have WWA right now for that, and I dont care if it takes 4 feats to get ti, leave it alone, or you will KILL the handwrap monk.

2. Stunning attacks that affect reapers/undead. Here is where you leave Tomb of Jade alone. Hey, if I jade a reaper, it often doesn't matter (see Vengeance), or it is being held by some other caster in the party, but if I am soling, I need this. (and I am not going to do a finishing move to do the same thing...not gonna happen)

3. Multiple versions of an AOE attack. Lets face it, Spring attack is utter garbage (some will beg to differ here), but its worthless to me. Put an AOE attack in the enhancement trees like barbarian or pally has. It doesn't have to be much, but why isn't there one there anyway? Give it a +1/+2/+3W progression and scale it off of Melee power. Make it Tier 6.

4. MRR Cap - yes please. no need to delve into how utterly horrible it is in R1+ raids

What i handwraps monks don't need (in my opinion only):

1. more ki attacks: (if you stop giving ki bonus on doublestrike, I agree with what somebody said, what's the point if the mob is dead when you get there.

2. more buttons, more problems...and finishing moves: Ok, so I have to push 3 buttons to get to the finishing move now, and you may make 2? Who cares when that's 2 more buttons I need to push (and keymap) on top of the other 15+ or so I have to use as a monk. On top of the speed nerf and the underwhelming max of 15% melee attack speed (unless you are a bard and get that extra 3% from the epic Destiny), monks max out at 15% (without haste boost).

Give us a chance to survive guys. Don't kill the class to make it vanilla. Removing/nerfing monks is bad for the game. I have stuck by for all of the nerfs and kept coming back, but I would have a hard time after this if what is being said is true.

Nico

Nico hit the nail on the head.

Only buffs that monks need is defensive. Give us the ability to increase our PRR/MRR cap (I had made a suggestion previously of tying this to the Diamond Body and Diamond Soul feats). Keep WWA, Jade Strike, Tomb of Jade as they are.. well... maybe cut the cooldown of Tomb of Jade down a little.

I don't mind the 2 button finishers. That just means that in raids I can spam out monk buffs quicker (Remove curse in Shroud and VOD especially). I like the idea of the elemental ki attacks automatically upgrading as the forms upgrade too.

And I have no idea why the OP thinks Grandmaster of Flowers is weak.. Weapon die increase, more dodge, instant mob clear, mass knockdown.. all seem pretty good to me.