Whirlwind Strike vs Vorpal Strike

[Logicman69]

Hello Monk Lovers!

My main monk is getting to the end of her build (Aasmir WIS based Pure Light Monk) and was looking at some feat options for end game. I was trying to think of how to build in whirlwind strike without sacrificing too much. The issue is, its such a feat heavy ability that I am wondering what I should be getting rid of. Currently, dodge and mobility are in the build, so that is not a problem. I can give up the toughness feat I currently have for Spring Attack, but then the last 2 feats I would need to give up in order to fit it is Vorpal Strikes (for CE) and Epic DR (whirlwind strike would go here).

So, is it worth giving up the epic DR and Vorpal Strikes for this? I always thought vorpal kind of fell out of usefulness with the power creep, though the slashing DR is nice for handwraps. Also, does the Epic DR do much now with the shift to PRR/MRR? Whirlwind Strike adds a good cleave for the monk. Combine that with dire charge and the helpless damage boost from Falconry and I can see this being deadly.

Thoughts, opinions, questions, memes?

[magaiti]

Vorpal Strikes (for CE) and Epic DR

neither is considered essential or even good. WWA on the other hand is considered best feat for fist monk.

[peng]

The last time I tested, the vorpal strikes feat *only* adds slashing bypass. The vorpal part of the feat hasn't been applying to handwraps for years.

My general feat loadout for non-human wraps monk (human gets stun fist at 1, imp crit at 12, precision at 18, and 1 of the lvl 30 choices at 27. You can take stun fist earlier on non-humans, but that means you get whirlwind or twf feats later.):

Feats

 1        : Dodge
 1 Monk   : Mobility
 2 Monk   : Two Weapon Fighting
 3 Monk   : Path of Harmonious Balance
 3        : Combat Expertise
 6        : Whirlwind Attack
 6 Monk   : Spring Attack
 9        : Improved Two Weapon Fighting
12        : Stunning Fist
15        : Greater Two Weapon Fighting
18        : Improved Critical: Bludgeoning
21 Epic   : Improved Martial Arts
24 Epic   : Overwhelming Critical
26 Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting
27 Epic   : Precision
28 Destiny: Tactician
29 Destiny: Dire Charge
30 Epic   : Epic Damage Reduction OR Deflect Arrows Or Epic Reflexes
30 Legend : Scion of: Astral Plane

[Logicman69]

Peng, that is the lineup I was thinking, but a slightly different order.

[Carpone]

Avoid Vorpal Strikes. It's way too niche to warrant a feat as is. It should also add 1W, similar to Combat Archery.

[Logicman69]

This is what I am planning right now (I have a couple boxes I am using this life, so leveling is quick). Thoughts?


Character name: Cristyle Sunn
Classes: 20 Monk, 10 Epic
Race: Aasimar · · · · · · ·Alignment: Lawful Good

· · ·Start Tome Final
Str:· · ·8· · 8 · ·31 · · ·HP:· · · ·1702 · · ·AC:· ·126
Dex:· · 15· · 8 · ·43 · · ·PRR: · · · 147
Con:· · 16· · 8 · ·73 · · ·MRR: · 144/120 · · ·+Healing Amp:· ·250
Int:· · 10· · 8 · ·26 · · ·Dodge: · 45/45 · · ·-Healing Amp:· · ·0
Wis:· · 20· · 8 · ·94 · · ·Fort:· · ·229% · · ·Repair Amp:· · · ·0
Cha:· · ·8· · 8 · ·25 · · ·SR:· · · · ·36 · · ·BAB: · · · · · · 15
DR: 10\Epic
Immunities: Disease, Natural Poison, Spawn effects of Undead, Blindness, Fear, Slippery Surfaces, Most Knockdown, Charm, Poison, Petrification, Air Elemental Knockdown

Class and Feat Selection
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Level Class · · · · · ·Feats
1 · · Monk(1) · · · · ·Standard: Dodge
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Aasimar Bond: Aasimar: Fallen Bond
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Monk Bonus: Two Weapon Fighting
2 · · Monk(2) · · · · ·Monk Bonus: Precision
3 · · Monk(3) · · · · ·Standard: Mobility
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Monk Philosophy: Path of Harmonious Balance: Fists of Light
4 · · Monk(4) · · · · ·Wisdom: +1 Level up
5 · · Monk(5) · · · · ·
6 · · Monk(6) · · · · ·Standard: Deflect Arrows
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Monk Bonus: Stunning Fist
7 · · Monk(7) · · · · ·
8 · · Monk(8) · · · · ·Wisdom: +1 Level up
9 · · Monk(9) · · · · ·Standard: Improved Two Weapon Fighting
10· · Monk(10)· · · · ·
11· · Monk(11)· · · · ·
12· · Monk(12)· · · · ·Standard: Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Wisdom: +1 Level up
13· · Monk(13)· · · · ·
14· · Monk(14)· · · · ·
15· · Monk(15)· · · · ·Standard: Greater Two Weapon Fighting
16· · Monk(16)· · · · ·Wisdom: +1 Level up
17· · Monk(17)· · · · ·
18· · Monk(18)· · · · ·Standard: Spring Attack
19· · Monk(19)· · · · ·
20· · Monk(20)· · · · ·Wisdom: +1 Level up
21· · Epic(1) · · · · ·Epic Feat: Improved Martial Arts
22· · Epic(2) · · · · ·
23· · Epic(3) · · · · ·
24· · Epic(4) · · · · ·Epic Feat: Overwhelming Critical
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Wisdom: +1 Level up
25· · Epic(5) · · · · ·
26· · Epic(6) · · · · ·Epic Destiny Feat: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting
27· · Epic(7) · · · · ·Epic Feat: Combat Expertise
28· · Epic(8) · · · · ·Epic Destiny Feat: Tactician
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Wisdom: +1 Level up
29· · Epic(9) · · · · ·Epic Destiny Feat: Dire Charge
30· · Epic(10)· · · · ·Epic Feat: Whirlwind Attack
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Legendary: Scion of the Astral Plane

[Kodwraith]

Whirlwind Attack is way more useful than almsot anything else. Consider that the time to level is currently dominated by how good your AoE is. WWA is your _only_ AOE (unless you go qstaff). I've leveled a fair amount as a monk on my main and WWA on a wrap monk is a "must have" early. It speeds everything up a huge amount.

[Logicman69]

Thanks everyone. I got my monk finally to cap (after the long grind to racial completion) and took whirlwind strike. I will say its a blast! There are a couple things I do wish they would change. First, the slight lag after the animation ends. I kinda wish I could go right back into punching but that pause just throws me off... Second, I wish it wasn't so feat dependent. Not sure why it needs 4 other feats to take. 2, maybe I could see. 4 just seems a little excessive.

Otherwise, I'm having a blast

[Nickodeamous]

Thanks everyone. I got my monk finally to cap (after the long grind to racial completion) and took whirlwind strike. I will say its a blast! There are a couple things I do wish they would change. First, the slight lag after the animation ends. I kinda wish I could go right back into punching but that pause just throws me off... Second, I wish it wasn't so feat dependent. Not sure why it needs 4 other feats to take. 2, maybe I could see. 4 just seems a little excessive.

Otherwise, I'm having a blast

There are a few good threads on this pause. Its so bad honestly. I play a monk, and this is the one thing that bugs me. I 'll say that there is no pause after any attacks made by a pally or a barb cleave. The animation was jacked up a few updates ago to slow it down even further. Its really hard to use WWA in heroics without taking a speed boost clicky. Glad you are enjoying it!!

Nico

[Logicman69]

There are a few good threads on this pause. Its so bad honestly. I play a monk, and this is the one thing that bugs me. I 'll say that there is no pause after any attacks made by a pally or a barb cleave. The animation was jacked up a few updates ago to slow it down even further. Its really hard to use WWA in heroics without taking a speed boost clicky. Glad you are enjoying it!!

Nico

I think a good portion is getting to know when to use it and what to follow it up with. Currently what I am doing is using dire charge first to mass stun, then follow that up with WWA, and then hitting Drifting Lotus to knockdown anything that is still standing. This slightly negates the pause after WWA (seems to go right into DL), and gives me a second to assess the situation and who to focus on. So far, its working out well. Dire Charge has a nuance all its own so that is taking some time to get used to (sometimes it doesn't charge forward, sometimes it goes too far, other times it just lags bad). The good part is this combo uses minimal KI, so I can stockpile it for a fight where that combo is not effective (boss fights) and just spam out my ki strikes there).

Now I can't wait till the raid comes out and those new trinkets are in game. The summer trinket is going to be a keystone for my gearset.