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  1. #1
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    Default Pew Pew, Lazorz!

    Nerfed in u51, they don't want level 20s leveling in legendary reaper.
    Last edited by Tilomere; 10-23-2021 at 02:46 PM.

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    Whats the base damage and helpless dmg at level 15? (Helpless damage at 20)

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    Whats the base damage and helpless dmg at level 15? (Helpless damage at 20)
    Helpless damage is 35% extra at levels 15-29. There's a bit more than 40 ranged power at 15, forgot what it is at 20. Base crossbow damage at 15 is in that screenshot and is 2.3(1d8)+75 at 15 with Nightshade Shooter, plus misc procs (sneak, law, poison, runearm, vorpal) depending on if the mob is vulnerable to them. I'm looking for a two socketed crossbow to craft up for level 16.

    Hi, welcome to DDO!
    Last edited by Tilomere; 12-07-2020 at 05:45 PM.

  4. #4
    Community Member Bjond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bjond View Post
    So, I just did L20-25 of Tilo's method
    Heh, shameless self-quote so you can chase the link to read subjective thoughts. Here is some build feedback for those wanting to try the method.

    For gear, consider Serrated Arrowhead. It actually does exactly what it says. It's a significant slow on crit for anything that can be slowed. Bosses and reapers were the only ones it didn't affect. I was surprised about reapers, considering they are subject to almost all other CC, but it doesn't work on them.

    My INQ wants PLDx3 for the Hamp and I dislike heroic. So, SDKx3 + PLDx3 is the goal. This means the underlying build for my INQ has lower sneak attack, less bypass, more M/PRR, and can cast PLD buffs and heals; PLD 12 Rogue 6 Art 2. Mine has less RXP (only 45), but all the other relevant stuff: 3xRNG 3xMonk 3xScoundrel 12xEpic and Gear (Storm instead of LGS).

    Mine lacks Deflect Arrows -- traded it for Sacred Defender's 25 MPRR. I find that I really miss deflect. I would trade the 25 PRR for it, but not sure about 25 MRR. Having a capped 100 MRR is very nice compared to the 50 I had with the previous build.

    I went up to T4 in mechanic for the extra hit/dam, 10 RP, and (sadly) the 80% bolt savings -- full RL saga can burn through a full inventory page of bolts. Stripping some AP for Assassin (as in Tilo's here) may or may not be an improvement, but would require a bit more "work" to milk trick for effect.

    I suspect the extra bypass on Tilo's build (20 standing and another 25 debuff) is likely a noticable DPS difference.

    BTW, any differences I have with Tilo's method here are subjective rather than factual. This method really does work and is possible. Whether you like it or not is more personal taste than anything else. If you decide to try it, my only caution would be to not get your hopes up as to being an incredible DPS performer when doing things under-leveled.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bjond View Post
    H
    BTW, any differences I have with Tilo's method here are subjective rather than factual. This method really does work and is possible.

    TY so much for the feedback and testing, I was wondering for a bit wether or not this was too far from current meta for anyone to actually try.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bjond View Post
    This means the underlying build for my INQ has lower sneak attack, less bypass, more M/PRR, and can cast PLD buffs and heals; PLD 12 Rogue 6 Art 2. Mine has less RXP (only 45), but all the other relevant stuff: 3xRNG 3xMonk 3xScoundrel 12xEpic and Gear (Storm instead of LGS).

    Mine lacks Deflect Arrows -- traded it for Sacred Defender's 25 MPRR. I find that I really miss deflect. I would trade the 25 PRR for it, but not sure about 25 MRR. Having a capped 100 MRR is very nice compared to the 50 I had with the previous build.

    I went up to T4 in mechanic for the extra hit/dam, 10 RP, and (sadly) the 80% bolt savings -- full RL saga can burn through a full inventory page of bolts. Stripping some AP for Assassin (as in Tilo's here) may or may not be an improvement, but would require a bit more "work" to milk trick for effect.

    I suspect the extra bypass on Tilo's build (20 standing and another 25 debuff) is likely a noticable DPS difference.

    Ahh, so I was wondering how much build flexibility was allowed under this paradigm. It's good to see you tested something fairly different and it still worked. If you do run this again, see if you can hit up Sharn Welcome at 24 to test against my build to see how your build performs. It would be nice to know "Paladin is X% off from rogue, so adjust reaper difficulty by Z." Every life you run this, you will get a better feel for running legendary reaper under level, and know a bit more what difficulty to run in based on how powerful your character currently is. So there is a learning curve to it. I found my character capped MRR at 24 without defensive stance, you can see it in the Sharn Welcome ratcatcher tests.

    I really like that epic voice. It has the raid dual filigree to fill in both sets, and up to date sheltering and resistance, I considered the KotB arrowhead, but ultimately went for damage from filling in sets, because that is where I felt would be most lacking. Solid option though for slower moving builds, like paladin. Unless you have Storm, a higher dps option is to swap the weapon to a Cormyrian paralyzer for more CC, which I put in as a non-Shiradi leveling weapon in the 20 gear set. I"ll add a note into OP.
    Last edited by Tilomere; 12-16-2020 at 11:15 AM.

  6. #6
    Community Member Bjond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tilomere View Post
    was wondering how much build flexibility was allowed under this paradigm. It's good to see you tested something fairly different and it still worked.
    IMHO, the reaper side of this style is highly dependent on just happening to have a character that's "ready enough" to hit L30 RXP quests even when L20. However, even for a weaker character, hitting LE from L20 would be MUCH faster XP than working the classic R1 route.

    I swapped things up even more at L25 -- stripped almost all class AP except 3 acrobat and 1 mechanic: 41 Inq 13 harper 23 Vistani. Initial intent was 6 Vistani, but decided to go T4 to pickup neg immunity, DS+10, and 9 MRR to offset the MRR loss from defender. MRR still ends up 92, which is nice enough and deflect arrows is absolutely worth the loss of 25 PRR.

    Build still works just fine. So, it's possible to do a completely classless build strapped on top of almost anything. You will do better if your underpinnings support INQ, but I'd feel good using this to carry just about any class.

    It's mostly a matter of how hard you want to work if you're solo. R4 is a easier at L25 than L20, but still a slog. Fortunately, peeps seem OK adding or joining a lowbie if you're the contributing kind and not just a packstone. RXP grouped at R4~6 legendary is very nice with FTB and the leveling is really fast.

  7. #7
    Community Member AbyssalMage's Avatar
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    Maybe I missed it in the text and pictures...
    Why the 1 Barbarian level?
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    The release notes themselves are essentially the same as was seen on Lamannia most recently.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aelonwy View Post
    This^ in so many words is how you say time and feedback on Lammania are wasted.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by AbyssalMage View Post
    Why the 1 Barbarian level?
    Level 18 rogue doesn't add another sneak die or open up a core we will use since we are using inquisitor as our primary tree. 3 Arti also doesn't open up a core we will use since we are using inquisitor as our primary tree. As a result, we have 1 "free" level, and barbarian run speed fits a kiting build the best. However, that and other levels could be any other class levels for past lives, if for example you needed a paladin past life like Bjond.

    Between barb run speed, rogue run speed, and SDK wings, this build is zoom!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bjond View Post
    RXP grouped at R4~6 legendary is very nice with FTB and the leveling is really fast.
    If you are running a higher dps setup, you can contribute into even higher reaper. RXP grouped at R8 FTB is even nicer..

    Oh plans within plans I have....
    Last edited by Tilomere; 12-17-2020 at 09:45 AM.

  9. #9
    Community Member TitusOvid's Avatar
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    I'm sorry, I don't get this. This is a serious question btw. I asked around and I didn't get serious responses.
    What is so new or different about this? I don't see anything unusual in the build. You can build and gear it that way, if you like it. I wouldn't tough. The only thing I see is a different lvl strategy. What am I missing?

    Cheers,
    Titus.
    Last edited by TitusOvid; 12-17-2020 at 09:57 AM.
    Playing since 2010 | Don't do the fun wrong | New to Orien? Join the ingame Titan Channel | Soko Irrlicht freut sich immer über neue Mitglieder | Deutscher DDO Discord | Orien Raiding Discord | Toons: Titus Ovid , Bruder, Upload, Zzed, (Rubbel)

  10. #10
    Community Member SpartanKiller13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TitusOvid View Post
    I'm sorry, I don't get this. This is a serious question btw. I asked around and I didn't get serious responses.
    What is so new or different about this? I don't see anything unusual in the build. You can build and gear it that way, if you like it. I wouldn't tough. The only thing I see is a different lvl strategy. What am I missing?
    To my understanding it's about 1) a different leveling strategy and 2) a build that works for said strategy.

    You basically need to be a ranged DPS toon to make the leveling strategy work (melee toons either don't have the survivability or the DPS to run that far underlevel, and casters run out of SP and can't hit DC's). Other than that, the important part is the leveling strategy, and Bjond's post offers an alternative build that works well enough as well as some discussion about how it's pretty class-irrelevant which makes HPL/IPL farming extremely appealing.

    This thread's really interesting to me as a player who hasn't really done much ranged combat and has a bunch of weird PL's I'd be happy to zoom through - and getting a bunch of RXP along the way seems awesome for me being a fairly casual RXP farmer. I'm a THF melee main with a side order of DC casting so this would be a bunch of branching out which would be cool
    -Khysiria of Cannith
    Quote Originally Posted by zehnvhex View Post
    Warlock is basically a ghetto Shiradi Sorc. You gives up some of the damage and self sustain for the ability to just hold down left click and yolo blast your way to victory.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    It's DDO. There are probably 6 different types of Evil damage.

  11. #11
    Community Member PeWBOOMPeW's Avatar
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    So this is a 2000 word essay on...how to get carried? How to pike?

  12. #12
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    So you take much longer to get to level 30 doing legendary R4-R6 quests compared to blowing through level-appropriate epic R1 quests and slayers, and you get less first time RXP per life. It's more like a one-time achievement, not something you want to repeat like presented here.
    Khyber: Ying-1, Kobeyashi, Nichevo-1 | 75 million Reaper XP

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by AbyssalMage View Post
    Maybe I missed it in the text and pictures...
    Why the 1 Barbarian level?
    Run speed. It stacks with the 17% from Thief-Acrobat, making you move about as fast as a pure monk.

    There's nothing new or special about this build or the gearing. It's the optimal Inquisitive split that was run before Inquisitive was overly nerfed in January 2020. It's efficient for grinding through past lives on R1.
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeWBOOMPeW View Post
    So this is a 2000 word essay on...how to get carried? How to pike?
    I think you might have skimmed the thread lol.

    A large part of the discussion is about how the build (or builds) can solo LR4ish at level 20 (slowly) so you can contribute meaningfully while being lower-leveled.

    If you just want to pike play a Bard, they're really popular rn lol. But you can't solo LR4 with a level 20 Bard, at least not one I've ever seen (maybe a Bard Inquisitive per this thread lol).

    Quote Originally Posted by Carpone View Post
    So you take much longer to get to level 30 doing legendary R4-R6 quests compared to blowing through level-appropriate epic R1 quests and slayers, and you get less first time RXP per life. It's more like a one-time achievement, not something you want to repeat like presented here.
    Quote Originally Posted by Carpone View Post
    There's nothing new or special about this build or the gearing. It's the optimal Inquisitive split that was run before Inquisitive was overly nerfed in January 2020. It's efficient for grinding through past lives on R1.
    I'm not Tilo, but the impression I got was the goal here is to not spend X time hitting 30 and then Y time farming RXP at cap; instead you farm RXP as you level (more slowly depending on how often you get a party) and then just immediately ITR at cap. You get a bit less RXP/life, but each life is significantly faster so your RXP/week is higher (and you rack up IPL/HPL's as well).

    The leveling is slower, but you don't get **** RXP 20-28 (from running Dailies and wasting FTB's on R1) and you don't waste a ton of FTB regular XP at 30 (from all the quests you usually save to FTB on R8).

    The build is ultimately unimportant; you just need something that can solo LR4 at level 20, and for most people that'll be some sort of ranged DPS toon - of which Inquisitive is an easy solid representative. Any level 20 melee I've seen will get dunked soloing LR4 (or take a century) and any caster will run out of spell points in LR4 for most content (ignoring Into the Mists etc). A Rogue GXB build would probably be just fine as well, for instance - the point is just some build that can deal significant ranged DPS without burning resources.
    -Khysiria of Cannith
    Quote Originally Posted by zehnvhex View Post
    Warlock is basically a ghetto Shiradi Sorc. You gives up some of the damage and self sustain for the ability to just hold down left click and yolo blast your way to victory.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    It's DDO. There are probably 6 different types of Evil damage.

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    This paradigm is about fun, and a different way to think about and play so you can contribute and have fun and progress all at the same time on builds that you enjoy but aren't good at cap because they don't scale well enough. Nerfquisitor is not a good cap build for high reaper at cap. But that's ok, because I'll just progress and enjoy playing it primarily in R4-6. Oh, and those buncha R8's I ran while leveling last life, and those few R10s. It is also about the fun of having an alternative way of leveling. R1 zerg is not enjoyable for everyone, all the time. Sometimes they want to mix it up, and this is a way to mix it up. Melee is just fine at cap, but I want to mix it up and try push it in its more challenging leveling period just to see what happens (without broken abilities or a soundburst splash), It is also about the fun of being able to join and contribute to a larger variety of groups due to building to handle legendary reaper at 20.

    It isn't about maximum efficiency (this is pretty **** efficient though) or maximum power at cap (play a sorc, alc, or paladin). It is about finding ways to have fun, especially on weaker builds that don't fit the standard paradigm of leveling in R1 and high reaper at cap well.

    You only need about 20M RXP to fill the trees out, and at 300k for levels 20-28, and another 50k 29-30, and another 50k 15-19, each iconic life is 400k, and each epic life is 350k. That's more than enough reaper XP per life to fill the trees out over only ~53 of the 72 epic and iconic lives to get, let alone racial and class lives. Someone running this paradigm will fill their reaper trees out well before they finish past lives. They will never need to play at cap, unless they want to.


    Quote Originally Posted by SpartanKiller13 View Post
    You basically need to be a ranged DPS toon to make the leveling strategy work (melee toons either don't have the survivability or the DPS to run that far underlevel, and casters run out of SP and can't hit DC's).
    This is for you.

    Quote Originally Posted by SpartanKiller13 View Post
    The build is ultimately unimportant;
    Yes, 100%. That's why I also tossed up a melee version of this paradigm. I might toss up a caster one too at some point after I explore melee.

    A caster can level in groups LR4-6 @20 as well. You can build for no-evasion damage (metoer, or poison multivial, or fan of knives). Or you can also or alternatively make a Shiradi setup, where you have ranged power with spell power, since most shiradi procs scale off both (first one, then other). For example, a bladeforged 2 pali, 12 alc,, 6 wizard could use poison multivial (fort save no evasion) and MM/MM SLA (no save) and fan of knives to proc shiradi over and over with a ton of spell hits, with a ranged power+spell power+spell crit setup, and do just fine in groups. Like nerfquisitor, a shiradi MM build isn't good in high reaper due to poor end game scaling, so it isn't a good stay at cap build. However, one could have a ton of fun and contribute while leveling such a shiradi caster in R4-6 while still progressing their character at a decent rate. Pure 20 wiz, alc, or sorc works too,
    Last edited by Tilomere; 12-17-2020 at 11:56 PM.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpartanKiller13 View Post
    You get a bit less RXP/life, but each life is significantly faster so your RXP/week is higher
    The rate of RXP is significantly lower with this strategy, not higher. I do 72 reaper quests at level cap and net just shy of 1mil RXP/life in 12 hours of gameplay. It's never been easier to gain RXP, thanks to the snowball effect of players having more reaper points, more legendary content to provide RXP, and more groups running higher skulls.

    Running reaper quests from 20-30 is never going to match the XP rate compared to wilderness areas. In five hours of gameplay you can go from level 20-29 doing Eveningstar, Orchard, Thunderholme, Barovian and Feywild slayers. Slap on all that juicy ML29 gear and you're good to go for legendary reaper.
    Khyber: Ying-1, Kobeyashi, Nichevo-1 | 75 million Reaper XP

  17. #17
    Community Member SpartanKiller13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tilomere View Post
    This is for you.

    Yes, 100%. That's why I also tossed up a melee version of this paradigm. I might toss up a caster one too at some point after I explore melee.
    Alright, thanks XD I'll post my comments for that one on that thread lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by Carpone View Post
    The rate of RXP is significantly lower with this strategy, not higher. I do 72 reaper quests at level cap and net just shy of 1mil RXP/life in 12 hours of gameplay. It's never been easier to gain RXP, thanks to the snowball effect of players having more reaper points, more legendary content to provide RXP, and more groups running higher skulls.

    Running reaper quests from 20-30 is never going to match the XP rate compared to wilderness areas. In five hours of gameplay you can go from level 20-29 doing Eveningstar, Orchard, Thunderholme, Barovian and Feywild slayers. Slap on all that juicy ML29 gear and you're good to go for legendary reaper.
    Yeah I have like 1.5m RXP total lol. I'm a lot more casual than either of y'all. I raid a bunch and play weird toons lol.

    Fair; if you go 15-20 in 5 hours, 20-30 in 5 hours, and sit at cap for 12 farming 1mil RXP you're probably going to win all the RXP/time awards. As long as you can roll an Iconic it's good IG?

    ------

    Either way, I'm finally getting my 2nd alt through epics and when they're parked and I finalize their gear I'll probs TR my main a handful of times. Probably sorta similar to Carpone for when I do a Sorc life or two, and probs more similar to Tilo for ranged toons? Idk.

    -------

    Edit: since I'm a noob, 1m/72 = 14k/quest, roughly. Is that R10's with a 50% pot going? I don't remember getting much past like 8k like ever.
    Last edited by SpartanKiller13; 12-18-2020 at 09:35 AM.
    -Khysiria of Cannith
    Quote Originally Posted by zehnvhex View Post
    Warlock is basically a ghetto Shiradi Sorc. You gives up some of the damage and self sustain for the ability to just hold down left click and yolo blast your way to victory.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    It's DDO. There are probably 6 different types of Evil damage.

  18. #18
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    So 4 XP elixirs (Heroics leveling, epic leveling, 2@ legendary RXP at cap) cost 1600 DDO points (400 each) and 5 slayer pots for the epic leveling cost 900 more, for a total of 2500 DDO points per life spent on acceleration. Yes, if you spend 2500 DDO points per life accelerating your character's RXP progression you progress RXP faster than someone who spends 0.

    If you use a heroic box, then epic box, with xp elixirs, you can get to legendary at cap even faster and progress RXP even faster, but that costs even more.

    But I'm not just progressing RXP, I'm progressing DDO points as well.

    Edit: Ok removing fun comment, I was wrong, everyone finds different things fun!
    Last edited by Tilomere; 12-18-2020 at 03:02 PM.

  19. #19
    Community Member Bunker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tilomere View Post
    But I'm not just progressing RXP, I'm progressing DDO points as well. And I'm having fun, because I'm not fighting trivial slayer mobs to level for 5 hours straight on a character with enough accumulated power to solo legendary reaper.
    The "having fun" part of your posts does nothing for the my way is better than yours discussion. Players find fun their way, so sating...." but but but I'm having fun" , insinuating that others don't you're kind of lame.

    And I'm happy for you man, glad you're having fun, it is a game, congrats. But when you post a lengthy write-up and then go "this Paradigm is about fun", come on man.

    When you get down to the nitty-gritty and get super detailed in a write-up you have to expect that there's going to be more than a few players they're going to say that this way is better or that way is better. Just Embrace those comments cuz truth be told you're probably going to find a few things that might actually tweak and enhance your "having fun" experience in the game.
    Mothergoose - Kardinal - Bunks

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bunker View Post
    When you get down to the nitty-gritty and get super detailed in a write-up you have to expect that there's going to be more than a few players they're going to say that this way is better or that way is better. Just Embrace those comments cuz truth be told you're probably going to find a few things that might actually tweak and enhance your "having fun" experience in the game.
    You are right, better is relative, as is fun. Let's look at nitty gritty of spending DDO points to accelerate leveling solely to farm RXP.
    XP potions 67 points/hour
    Slayer pots 960 points / 5 hours

    Slayers Way: 1010k RXP in 22 hours, 2434 DDO points cost

    5 hours heroic 335 DDO points XP Pot (50k RXP)
    5 hours epic 960 DDO points Slayer Pots + 335 DDO points XP Pot
    12 hours farmiing RXP high reaper @ 80k/hour 80k DDO points XP Pot


    My Way with XP pots: 750k RXP in 20 hours, 1340 DDO points cost

    5 hours heroic 335 DDO points XP Pot (50k RXP)
    10 hours epic 670 DDO points XP Pot (300k RXP 20-28)
    5 hours farming RXP high reaper @ 80k/hour 335 DDO points XP Pot

    Regular Paradigm with XP pots: 650k RXP in 26 hours 1742 DDO points
    5 hours heroic (30k RXP)
    9 hours epic 20-28 R1 (32k rxp)
    12 hours 29-30 and R6-8 farming (650k rxp)


    Slayers Way no DDO points: 690k RXP in 42 hours. 0 DDO points cost.

    7.5 hours heroic (50k RXP)
    22.5 hours epic (slayer)
    12 hours farming @ 53.3k

    My Way no DDO points: ~400k RXP in 22.5 hours, 0 DDO points cost

    7.5 hours heroic (50k RXP)
    15 hours epic in LR6 (300k 20-28, 50k 29-30)

    Regular Paradigm 31 hours 484k rxp, 0 DDO points

    7 hours heroic R1 (20k RXP)
    14 hours epic 20-28 R1 (32k rxp)
    12 hours 29-30 and R6-8 farming (432k rxp)


    The nitty gritty is that Slayers Way does net far more RXP/hour than mine if you spend the DDO points to accelerate. If you look at the trend, under both accelerated Slayers and my ways one ends up buying about 250 RXP per DDO point spent, or 25k RXP per $1. Slayers way allows more acceleration, in that you can buy both slayer and xp potions than my way. Without buying acceleration though, Slayers way becomes less efficient than my way and about as efficient as the standard way. You're right, it is interesting to look at the nitty-gritty. I'm guessing most people are on the regular paradigm though of leveling R1 to cap, then R6-8 (or less). My way accumulates past lives and SXP and RXP faster than the regular paradigm, with or without pots.

    It looks like SSG if they develop secure tech could simply sell RXP boxes directly at 1M for $50 and it wouldn't be out of line with their existing potions and slayer price points. I wonder how many people would immediately drop $1k to fill out their trees.
    Last edited by Tilomere; 12-18-2020 at 08:02 PM.

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