Sacred Fist question/issue

[AlsoWondering]

I am trying to figure out what weapon I can use for the occasion when I need a ranged weapon that I am both proficient in and will keep me centered. Shurikens work for normal monks, but not for SF. I am looking for either a general type of weapon or a specific (named) weapon that can be used at level 1 or 2 and isn't too difficult to get/find.
Thanks

[dogsoldier]

I am trying to figure out what weapon I can use for the occasion when I need a ranged weapon that I am both proficient in and will keep me centered. Shurikens work for normal monks, but not for SF. I am looking for either a general type of weapon or a specific (named) weapon that can be used at level 1 or 2 and isn't too difficult to get/find.
Thanks

As it is designed, Shuriken is the best bet, so you may as well grab a monk level, picking up a martial arts feat, proficiency with Shuriken and allowing you to use Monk stances. Have a look in the Paladin forum for multiclass ideas.

[misterski]

I am trying to figure out what weapon I can use for the occasion when I need a ranged weapon that I am both proficient in and will keep me centered. Shurikens work for normal monks, but not for SF. I am looking for either a general type of weapon or a specific (named) weapon that can be used at level 1 or 2 and isn't too difficult to get/find.
Thanks

Another option is drow. They are proficient in shurikens. Also shurikens will still keep you centered even if you are not proficient in them. Too bad Sacred Flame only works with melee weapons. Otherwise, what dogsoldier suggested. Pure Sacred Fists aren't that good at the moment. The archetype needs a bit more work on it or outside help via multiclassing.

[FuzzyDuck81]

Another option is drow. They are proficient in shurikens. Also shurikens will still keep you centered even if you are not proficient in them. Too bad Sacred Flame only works with melee weapons. Otherwise, what dogsoldier suggested. Pure Sacred Fists aren't that good at the moment. The archetype needs a bit more work on it or outside help via multiclassing.

Drow's a solid bet since they also get the CHA boost as well as the faerie fire SLA which is a nice little thing.

[misterski]

Drow's a solid bet since they also get the CHA boost as well as the faerie fire SLA which is a nice little thing.

Also forgot to mention that since shuriken are already ki weapons they also benefit from the cha to hit/dmg from the level 6 deity feat.

[dogsoldier]

Edit: I changed the level order, so that Favored Soul is selected at level 2, and the next 12 levels Sacred Fist. It doesn't change anything, really I just wanted to test the Update 56.1 Deity selection, that does work after taking Sacred Fist, but then you still have the problem of not being able to take Favored Soul spells if you had Sacred Fist levels first. Taking FvS before Sacred Fist is a workaround for spell selection for now.

Drow should be a pretty solid choice for it, and I might have to try this myself.

I am just looking at the character creation screen and going off what I have in my head for subsequent levels, not a planner, but I believe something like this would work if you wanted to go Drow. You can always roll up a Vet II level 7 character to try it out, if you have unlocked the favor for that:

Lawful Good Drow 16/3/1 Sacred Fist, Monk, Favored Soul

STR 8
DEX 16
CON 12
INT 14
WIS 10
CHA 18

Skills:
At least one rank in both UMD and Tumble
Max Concentration
Max Heal
Max Diplomacy

On creation, and on second and third monk and and the favored soul levels, boost some of the nice to have things that you cannot get as class skills from Sacred Fist, like Jump on Favored Soul level, and Spot/Jump, etc. on Monk Levels. Concentration and heal are the most important skills, you can take concentration at every level, but on monk levels don't waste skill points on heal when every other level you can take it as a class skill.

Level 1 Monk: Martial Arts Feat: Two Weapon Fighting, Regular Feat Two Weapon Defense (we want the +10 MRR cap from TWD right off the bat, and monk gets more skills, so more on creation)
Level 2: Favored Soul: Follower of Vulkoor, Spells: Nightshield, Protection from Evil (we want a Divine Class by level 3, because we do not want to waste a feat slot, and a Divine can take Empower Healing)
Level 3: Sacred Fist: Empower Healing
Level 4: Sacred Fist +1 DEX, ALL remaining level ups in CHA
Level 5: Sacred Fist
Level 6: Sacred Fist: Adept of Forms (we cannot take Improved Two Weapon fighting here, but that is fine because we want the upgrades to monk stances)
Level 7: Sacred Fist
Level 8: Sacred Fist
Level 9: Sacred Fist: Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Level 10: Sacred Fist
Level 11: Sacred Fist
Level 12: Master of Forms (this is going to sound counter-intuitive, because you are going to want to take imp critical instead, but know that this gives you either passive ki generation boosts, or ki generation on hit, you want it here)
Level 13: Sacred Fist (this is where you get your first major Ki spell, Incinerating wave, you will like the extra Ki for this
Level 14: Sacred Fist (now with 12 levels of Sacred Fist you basically have the main core of the class, 23 AP in Sacred Fist gets you most of what you want)
Level 15: Monk: Martial Arts Feat Precision, regular Feat Improved Critical Piercing
Level 16: Monk: Path of Harmonious Balance: Fists of Light (healing Ki stuff, and you can take the level 3 core in Ninja spy)
Level 17: Sacred Fist
Level 18: Sacred Fist: Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Level 19: Sacred Fist
Level 20: Sacred Fist
Level 21: Grandmaster of Forms (If you are going into epics and utilizing the GMoF tree you probably want this)
Level 22: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting
Level 24: Overwhelming Critical
Level 25: Crush Weakness
Level 27: Quicken (you want it if you are going to do legendary questing at cap)
Level 28: Pierce Adamantine Or Cold Iron (take the other one from GMoF when you pickup extra Ki generation there)
Level 30: Scion of Arborea
Level 30: Epic Reflexes if you are not utilizing Shadowdancer, or probably Intensify if you are (your Cure Mod SLA from Radiant Servant can benefit from it, as well as the Cure Mod Mass SLA from Exalted Angel if you wanted to go into that tree for another healing SLA)

Edit: Noticed that I left out the level 10-11 levels when I moved the monk levels back, those are Sacred Fist, with no feat selections available.

[dogsoldier]

It is important to note that this particular build was not possible yesterday. As of Update 56.1, you no longer get Deity conflicts, and to work around that you would have to take your Divine Class before Sacred Fist. So that would mean if you took Monk at 2 and Favored Soul at 3, you throw precision in the trash because you cannot take it until level 3. Or if you take Favored Soul at 2, Monk at 3, it would work, but you are throwing your nice to have skills in the trash because you cannot spread those levels out and pickup more skills overall for the key nice to have things that are cross class skills for Paladin / Sacred Fist.

[dogsoldier]

I did roll up a level 7 Vet 2 to test, and I selected enhancements to give you some ideas. 1 AP in Ninja Spy gives DEX to hit with Shortswords and makes them centering. 1 AP in Shintao gives you +10 Healing Amp. You wont have any Ki spells except for Ki bolt right away, but you probably want to use your Ki for that Exalted Whirlwind instead. And then at level 13 you will pickup Incinerating Wave, which you can use in combo with that.

Enhancements on creation at level 7:



Stats at level 7 on the boat, no gear:

[dogsoldier]

Also, this shows that the update 56.1 fix did work for selecting the Deity as Favored Soul, after already having a level in Sacred Fist:



However, there is still the problem with Spell Selection that people had reported. Favored Soul, and likely Cleric as well, do not get to select spells if you first have a level in Sacred Fist.



This is not build breaking or anything, but it would be really convenient to have the Nightshield and Protection from Evil spells right off the bat from the level of Favored Soul. Paladin does not get Nightshield, so would have to use scrolls for it (or shield scrolls, or wands, or clickies, whatever), Paladin gets Protection from Evil, but not right away, and has very limited spell slots, so this would also be nice to have.

[dogsoldier]

So for now, I would recommend taking that first level of Favored Soul at level 2 (before any Sacred Fist Levels), and pickup Empower healing at level 3 with Sacred Fist.

[dogsoldier]

I logged in the test character to check on something, and I had a big notification on my screen that I did not have enough level 1 spells, and that I should go visit a trainer, so I did that. Market trainer let me use the swap spell interface, I had nothing, so it just said I needed to take one. And then I opened that same dialog, and it let me take a second one. So the test character now has both Favored Soul spells that they wanted.



It would be interesting to know whether or not characters that had this problem prior to update 56.1 can use the same fix.

[Marshal_Lannes]

I am trying to figure out what weapon I can use for the occasion when I need a ranged weapon that I am both proficient in and will keep me centered. Shurikens work for normal monks, but not for SF. I am looking for either a general type of weapon or a specific (named) weapon that can be used at level 1 or 2 and isn't too difficult to get/find.
Thanks

This is an issue with the class I found as well. You aren't proficient in Shuriken so there are no easy fixes. Are you looking for something to throw occasionally? If so, I'd just use darts. If you're looking for an actual ranged attack then it gets more complicated. I would not do any of the suggestions above simply to use Shuriken. Why? Getting Shuriken to work and do decent damage requires a major investment and doesn't even really pay off until you add in epic abilities. You're obviously not going to do that for occasional ranged use. You could try taking Zen Archery but be aware that it has a WIS 13 requirement which you likely won't have until tomes kick in. There are then tons of named bows to choose from.

[misterski]

This is an issue with the class I found as well. You aren't proficient in Shuriken so there are no easy fixes. Are you looking for something to throw occasionally? If so, I'd just use darts. If you're looking for an actual ranged attack then it gets more complicated. I would not do any of the suggestions above simply to use Shuriken. Why? Getting Shuriken to work and do decent damage requires a major investment and doesn't even really pay off until you add in epic abilities. You're obviously not going to do that for occasional ranged use. You could try taking Zen Archery but be aware that it has a WIS 13 requirement which you likely won't have until tomes kick in. There are then tons of named bows to choose from.

He's better off using shurikens as they won't uncenter him and cause him to lose any of his stored ki. Also after level 6 he'll get the cha to hit/damage bonus from the level 6 deity feat.

[dogsoldier]

I can guarantee that I will do 10x more damage on my Shuriken with zero investment in ranged abilities at level 20 than Marshall Lannes can at 20 even if he selected every single ranged feat that he could think of and wore the Wallwatch Sharn set.

[dogsoldier]

I can guarantee that I will do 10x more damage on my Shuriken with zero investment in ranged abilities at level 20 than Marshall Lannes can at 20 even if he selected every single ranged feat that he could think of and wore the Wallwatch Sharn set.

That's not even the point though, as misterski pointed out, remaining centered is the point. I wouldn't use it all that often outside of the Zawabis Revenge Raid.

[dogsoldier]

Also if any Pure Sacred Fists were annoyed with not having a Centered occasional Ranged option, there are the Level 12 Wind Howler bracers granting longbow proficiency which can be used in conjunction with the GMoF destiny ability allowing centered longbows via Zen Archery. That is not available to you until Epics, but it is an idea.

[AlsoWondering]

Since I am just trying this on HC, the answer is to get a shuriken to get the archer on the ledge, etc. since staying centered is more important and I'm not about to farm gear.

[TPICKRELL]

Unlike monk, being uncentered doesn't kick you out of the sacred fist stance, so using an non-ki weapon isn't the major annoyance it is on monk. So I just used whatever throwing weapon I had easy access to and ignored that it was **** damage the couple of times I needed it.

With monk it turns your stances off, and you have to remember to manually turn them back on. Here you just don't get the sacred fist bonuses to damage. Yes It would be nice to have a centered ranged weapon, but that would change the thrower leveling experience significantly.

[misterski]

Unlike monk, being uncentered doesn't kick you out of the sacred fist stance, so using an non-ki weapon isn't the major annoyance it is on monk. So I just used whatever throwing weapon I had easy access to and ignored that it was **** damage the couple of times I needed it.

With monk it turns your stances off, and you have to remember to manually turn them back on. Here you just don't get the sacred fist bonuses to damage. Yes It would be nice to have a centered ranged weapon, but that would change the thrower leveling experience significantly.

It drops your stored ki, though.

[TPICKRELL]

It drops your stored ki, though.

But I doubt they are going to provide a Sacred Fist Thrower option, would instantly be one of or even the best thrower base.