Barlock - how bad an idea is this?

[SpiritofAlba]

I'm a long time super casual player, and like experimenting with different builds. I'm gradually edging towards heroic completionist, and want to do a bard life next. Mainly run PUGs.

I was wondering about a bard / warlock, perhaps 12 / 8 split. Max charisma and sonic power, fey pact and SB, use different tack to get CHA to damage (though will still need to be STR to hit), and run in ES. Basic idea is to melee in a SB mode, a bit of extra damage from the aura, and then blast and HP boosts from ES when it gets busy.

I totally know that this is not going to be optimal, though they do seem some nice crossovers around use of sonic in both classes.

Any thoughts? Is it a slightly mad idea, or a really really bad one? Can it be made it work?

[cru121]

the split has some good things (two ticking auras with temporary hp are satisfying, charisma synergy), and some bad
For example, it's pretty feat tight: needs both metas for ES "cleaves" and melee feats; low bab delays melee feats.It also needs some levels for things to fit together. And you can easily end up sucking at two things, melee and ES dps, instead having at least one of these at respectable levels. Gearing for both is also a headache.

I would consider also dipping some third class. Possible candidates:
- fighter 3 for stance and feats
- fvs/clr 1 for trance
- rogue 2-3 for evasion and traps

if you have feydark illusionist, you can also get charisma to hit.

in general, you don't see many of warlock bards running around, ... and well, there's probably a reason for that.

[Discpsycho]

It's not the worst idea, but the split isn't ideal.

Both Bards and Warlocks have a few important features that improve with level. For Bards, it's Warchanter freezes, songs, and spells. For Warlocks, it's Eldritch Blasts (both base and pact dice). You run into a similar issue as most other caster or semi-caster splits, which is that you don't want to give up levels in either class, since both scale well. Bards have good defenses, but Swashbuckling restricts them to light armor while ES has a slight preference for medium, and the Displacement SLA is just a QoL improvement from the Bard and Warlock spells.

Happily, Bards have an appealing splash through Swashbuckler, which leaves most of your levels for Warlock and gives you a crit boost to make your melee more competitive! With a shallow Bard splash you can get a beefy Warlock melee with semi-viable dps, right?

Unfortunately, the ES cores are pretty good. You'll lose Celestial spirit, which increases your EB damage by >50% (2s cooldown instead of 3, +3d6). The capstone's +20% HP won't restrict spellcasting like EDF does and there are decent spell and melee power boosts in there too.

I haven't tried a melee warlock, but I'd imagine they do best in a few related flavors:
- Pure Warlock With 41 points ES, 21+ Vistani , the remainder in Tainted Scholar for pact dice. Alternatively, 41 Vistani and 31+ ES, depending on tankiness. Vistani's doublestrike and MP compensate for the lack of melee power, and this will end up playing a lot like an EK. Would probably peak in late heroic and early epic; not sure how well it'll perform at cap
- Warlock 14- / Fighter 3+ / 3 Bard, possibly 11/6/3 if you want to go for Strike With No Thought for Handaxes. Low-hanging critical profile fruit in Kensei and Swash cores will compensate for reduced Warlock blast damage. Stalwart Defender's stance is a great HP boost in heroics, which is where this build will really shine

[SpiritofAlba]

Thanks for the thoughts. Sounds like mostly warlock with 3+ bard (for SB and different tack - i don't have illusionist) might be more viable, if still perhaps too sub-optimal. I had wondered about throwing in a FVS level for the trance, though that felt perhaps too whacky. I hadn't previously clocked that warlock blasts use / need metas, which does make the feats a bit tricky, so can see the fighter potential. Hmm...

I need a warlock life as well as a bard, so all good. If I do get around to this, I'll post a note on how it plays.

[john0]

Thanks for the thoughts. Sounds like mostly warlock with 3+ bard (for SB and different tack - i don't have illusionist) might be more viable, if still perhaps too sub-optimal. I had wondered about throwing in a FVS level for the trance, though that felt perhaps too whacky. I hadn't previously clocked that warlock blasts use / need metas, which does make the feats a bit tricky, so can see the fighter potential. Hmm...

I need a warlock life as well as a bard, so all good. If I do get around to this, I'll post a note on how it plays.

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...rlock-2-rogue)

Thats the split used for my bard setup, i went 5 lock and 3 fighter as final setup for the +20%hp in stalwart and went t5 into ES for shining through. But either way its a solid setup

[unbongwah]

I was wondering about a bard / warlock, perhaps 12 / 8 split. Max charisma and sonic power, fey pact and SB, use different tack to get CHA to damage (though will still need to be STR to hit), and run in ES.

FYI the new Feydark Illusionist tree adds CHA to hit and damage with any weapon, but right now it's only available with the $80 and $130 Feywild pre-orders.

[Amastris]

in addition to unbongwah's comment if you purchase the $40 feywild expansion you will be able to have access to feydark illusionist with the reward from the third tier of favor with the summer court. that is once it goes live on the servers. this was confirmed in an interview by Strimtom with the Dev's. so that is still an option for you if you choose.

[Mgrave88]

FYI the new Feydark Illusionist tree adds CHA to hit and damage with any weapon, but right now it's only available with the $80 and $130 Feywild pre-orders.

I believe you only get the CHA modifier when using the conjured shortswords, dont think its to any weapon

[Xgya]

I believe you only get the CHA modifier when using the conjured shortswords, dont think its to any weapon

The conjured shortswords do it automatically, but you can get it for all weapons from the tree itself, through Familiar's Flourish.

[adamkatt]

FYI the new Feydark Illusionist tree adds CHA to hit and damage with any weapon, but right now it's only available with the $80 and $130 Feywild pre-orders.

I bought the 40 pack and once you unlock it with favor its ava every life thereafter.

[slarden]

For leveling I would recommend 16 warlock / 3 bard / 1 favored soul.

Tentacles + greater color spray will be decent at cap even without a full casting spec.

[Antheal]

Which tree's Tier 5 enhancements are you thinking about taking? You can only take Tier 5's in a single tree, and you'd need 5 levels of that class to be eligible.

[SpiritofAlba]

Having been away, I have now finally given this a try. L15 at present - bard 4, warlock 11. It's actually not too shabby, particularly once getting the T5 warlock, thus having two aura blasts, also EBT and dark delirium for CC (colour spray did the job at low level, but now not really got the DC). The 4th bard level was probably a mistake, though lets me get another 20 sonic spell power with an orb, and a better healing spell. With bard autoknockdown chance, and warlock displacement, and the temp hit points, survivability not bad either. Definitely will go to warlock 15 for the leap, still wondering about possibly one fighter or FVS level for feat or trance.

[SocratesBastardSon]

I agree with the others that it's not a bad build at all. It's not the best, but it's fun.

Splashing another class is highly recommended.

• A dark horse to consider is Barbarian for the speed boost and FB's underappreciated Die Harder. It's saved me many times, especially if you can get an item that extends your unconsciousness range.
• Fighter gives you another feat, which is very nice when you're going all-in with SWF. But just as important is Kensai's Speed Action Boost. It may be the best action boost for melees in the game, and when combined with SWF's alacrity increases you will slice and dice your way through foes at a vastly entertaining rate.
• But FvS's Divine Might from War Soul adds a nearly always on (2 minutes with nearly instant cast time) 50% stacking bonus to your damage output from SWF's ability modifier damage. If you have CHA for to-hit and damage, then FvS is a must.

Definitely take Warlock 15 for Misty Escape; it's less essential for ES builds in heroic, but it becomes more important in Epic. You're right that 3 levels of Bard is plenty, because Warlock 16 nets you a blast and pact die for your aura plus a single level 6 spell, but it's not fatal doing a 15/4/1 split.

And as I'm sure you know, once you're in Epic, Fatesinger is by far the best destiny for all kinds of reasons, including imposing up to 50% sonic vulnerability.

You're not going to be able to do high reaper or tank raids, but it's a fine leveling build. Should be fun.

[tapster]

It's a bit of a old thread but the basics are there for a Bardlock if you're looking for ideas

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...lock-with-soul!

I do like a melee 'lock. I'm sat at cap running a THF 15/5 Warlock/Barbarian 33 FB/ 22 ES/ 25 SE. Such fun. Who needs bard anyway!

No focus at all on aura/burst DPS/DC's. Abyss Warlock for self heal and buffs and Barb for everything else, (except rage, I never use rage).

PS Take Spring Attack and you don't need Misty Escape

[SpiritofAlba]

It's a bit of a old thread but the basics are there for a Bardlock if you're looking for ideas

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...lock-with-soul!

I do like a melee 'lock. I'm sat at cap running a THF 15/5 Warlock/Barbarian 33 FB/ 22 ES/ 25 SE. Such fun. Who needs bard anyway!

No focus at all on aura/burst DPS/DC's. Abyss Warlock for self heal and buffs and Barb for everything else, (except rage, I never use rage).

PS Take Spring Attack and you don't need Misty Escape

Thanks for link. Interesting to look back and see how much Warlocks got nerfed. I remember them first coming in and killing rooms with one blast, but I assumed that doesn't happen anymore because Reaper. That is of course part of it, but 10d6 blast etc would have made a difference too!