Most irritating precision jumping quest

[Andu_Indorin]

The Pit is probably the single greatest dungeon ever created in this game, and one of my personal favorites.

The Pit certainly stands out as an exemplar for designing a challenging quest; similarly, Tear of Dhakaan stands out as an examplar for an overall dungeon design. Both rate 5 of 5 in my book, and are the best quests under Level 10.

As for jumping, I am having great difficulty mastering the very last jump in The Newcomers. But I'm proud to say that I have managed to "touch the sky" in the Price of Freedom.

[lain5246]

Which is, again, why the route isn't ever mandatory.

i got it, the next raid should have the same kind of platform area, a swim like crucible, something similar to the googles challenge in the ascension chamber, and something that makes use of soar sled like mechanic. they wont be manditory but they will offer a path that ignores challenging mini bosses or provides a buff to the people that complete it... like the buffs in Barovia. than make the boss extremely challenging.

[Gniewomir]

Just my two cents, but imao deathwyrm is one of the best (if not the best) raid in ddo, i love it. Puzzles, multiple paths forward with a different challanges, pretty long (not 1 room raid like sharn ones), the requirement of coordination, various roles for party members, boss fight requiring some knowledge/coordination instead of just dps. Seriously, great job and i hope more raids will be like this one. Tho i know perfectly majority of players is not a fan od deathwyrm (or at least do not join lfms :P).

If we speak about jump room itself - like Steelstar said it's not mandatory, so i don't get whats the problem. Just choose a different path. It's one of very few quests in ddo with multiple options to advance (the only other i can think of right now is schemes of the enemy). I wish we've got more quests/raids like that instead of linear ones. And honestly - the only difficult jump there can be easly skipped with abundant step/wings or... heroic boots from house c. There's literally 0 challange in jump room if you got those boots and if you know the shortcut to skip the rest of way and go straight to phyla after using them. And if someone really cant make it - go back to entrance area, die, let someone carry your stone. Jumping room was always the easiest and the least demanding way in deathwyrm, it's not like it need redesign cause noone chooses it.

The only things i would change in wyrm is:
1. Dwarf maze. Never, literally never i saw party going maze deliberately. Last time i went this way myself is like 6+ years ago, so i can't even say i remember it well (tho i know basic mechanic there). Would be nice to make it a bit more attractive comparing to other rooms, tho on the other hand it would require major redesign and i doubt it's worth effort.
2. Gravity room. With overflow of character power tower and green/red is no longer demanding, so in my opinion there's no reason to go gravity room. Most of people don't know it and teaching them, especially since there're always people who prefer to pike instead of learn, is not worth effort. Bumping hp/dps of mobs in green/red and tower might help it a bit, but on the other hand it might also cause difficulty unbalance, so im not sure it's good option too.
3. Phyla and conga line. Conga line became the only way groups do phyla at boss, it could be good idea to add some variety/benefits for groups that choose more demanding options. What if, for example, each time fake phyla is destroyed chance that real one will spawn in the same room get lower? This way instead of spamming one room (and nowadays everyone can solo it without problem) would be less "the easiest" and different approaches would be more attractive.
4. Threads. The amount of threads of fate here is joke. One of the longest raids, one of the raids that require a lot of knowledge etc. and the same amount as 10-15 min fotp that require 0 brain usage.

[TekkenDevil]

I'm fine with all of it.
The caveat is that every quest with a jumping section should have a mechanic where the game can detect if the servers are not performing well, in which case an NPC appears to offer you to skip the jumping puzzle outright.
Because they're only fun when the servers are working right.

[Micki]

Jumping puzzle in Deathwyrm, there is the one part that is tricky to do for a lot of ppl, me included, so we just started jumping past it. You can do this with wings, abundant step or boots of propulsion for example. The boots at least used to be easy to get, I made sure to have a pair on each toon for situations like this.

Jumps in Smash and Burn used to drive me a bit crazy - to the point where I just didn't want to do the quest. It's better since the last changes.

[Silverleafeon]

Thank you Steelstar, I got what I asked for = a fix for the final "left" jump, that I should turn right instead, jump and press forward to hang on the second lower block, then turn and jump to the exit.

Been doing that one wrong for years and years...anyway, I am happy now.

[Seph1roth5]

Only ran this raid a few times but never did that jumping stuff. Whatever way we took went fine though lol.

[TedSandyman]

Worth noting: the jump puzzle in Deathwyrm is never mandatory - we intentionally made sure that there are always two routes open in that phase, so that parties that never want to do the jumping puzzle are never required to in order to complete the raid.

I did not know this and retract my previous complaint. However, every time I ran it the party went this way, and it was more than annoying.

[TedSandyman]

If we speak about jump room itself - like Steelstar said it's not mandatory, so i don't get whats the problem. Just choose a different path. It's one of very few quests in ddo with multiple options to advance (the only other i can think of right now is schemes of the enemy). I wish we've got more quests/raids like that instead of linear ones. And honestly - the only difficult jump there can be easly skipped with abundant step/wings or... heroic boots from house c. There's literally 0 challange in jump room if you got those boots and if you know the shortcut to skip the rest of way and go straight to phyla after using them. And if someone really cant make it - go back to entrance area, die, let someone carry your stone. Jumping room was always the easiest and the least demanding way in deathwyrm, it's not like it need redesign cause noone chooses it.

The only things i would change in wyrm is:
1. Dwarf maze. Never, literally never i saw party going maze deliberately. Last time i went this way myself is like 6+ years ago, so i can't even say i remember it well (tho i know basic mechanic there). Would be nice to make it a bit more attractive comparing to other rooms, tho on the other hand it would require major redesign and i doubt it's worth effort.
2. Gravity room. With overflow of character power tower and green/red is no longer demanding, so in my opinion there's no reason to go gravity room. Most of people don't know it and teaching them, especially since there're always people who prefer to pike instead of learn, is not worth effort. Bumping hp/dps of mobs in green/red and tower might help it a bit, but on the other hand it might also cause difficulty unbalance, so im not sure it's good option too.
3. Phyla and conga line. Conga line became the only way groups do phyla at boss, it could be good idea to add some variety/benefits for groups that choose more demanding options. What if, for example, each time fake phyla is destroyed chance that real one will spawn in the same room get lower? This way instead of spamming one room (and nowadays everyone can solo it without problem) would be less "the easiest" and different approaches would be more attractive.
4. Threads. The amount of threads of fate here is joke. One of the longest raids, one of the raids that require a lot of knowledge etc. and the same amount as 10-15 min fotp that require 0 brain usage.

You yourself say the dwarf room isn't really an option. The trap room sounds bad for anyone not a thief or with evasion. Are these options I could choose to do by myself if the rest of the group did the jump room? I mean there seems to be an option. But, wink wink, it really isn't an option, is what it sounds like you are saying.

[Silverleafeon]

The trap room sounds bad for anyone not a thief or with evasion.

After Steelstar fixed several things about the Trap Room, it became the preferred choice by good leaders.
Traps are easily run thru in the unlikely event there is no trapper.
The main key to trap room is someone sitting on the far lever to let everyone thru.

So, the odds of getting the choice of Jump vs Dwarf Maze is 33%


"When in doubt go right then left but never straight ahead."

If your party finds the jump room, tell everyone you need a ride to the top and go back out the way you came in and sit your toon in front of a lazer to die.
Always run away from your soulstone once after dying to trigger an event exclusive to this raid.

[Mendelsohn]

An item desperately needs to be added to the game. A rope.
See you can bypass pretty much any jumping puzzle with a soulstone carry, but that is annoying and immersion breaking. Give us a rope, or put a lever next to the top of every jumping puzzle that drops a rope ladder.

This is such a great idea. A Rope of Climbing, which works in some quests, and when equipped some optional hook points highlight and then a rope appears similar to a ladder animation.

[0ldschool]

tldr; but Newcomers immediately jumps to the top of my list. It's miserable. Add to that the large number of named items in the quest and it becomes a loot farming nightmare. No, it is THE loot farming nightmare. I wanted the Bracers of Hidden Blade for my assassin for a while, until I realized what farming this quest would mean. I just pretend that the loot in that quest doesn't exist when planning gear sets.

[Gniewomir]

You yourself say the dwarf room isn't really an option. The trap room sounds bad for anyone not a thief or with evasion. Are these options I could choose to do by myself if the rest of the group did the jump room? I mean there seems to be an option. But, wink wink, it really isn't an option, is what it sounds like you are saying.

Well, it' an option. It's here, it's possible to access it. Yeah, it's kinda weird and much more demanding than any other option, but if jump room is impossible to do for someone- you can always go dwarf maze. Tho like i said, i would love to see it redesigned to make sure it's not only additional option, but attractive one too. Trap room with currently available power is pretty easy, even without trapper. And in fact thats the reason noone runs dwarf maze: cause both trap room and jump are much, much easier, so i find weird to accuse them of being too hard, cause they're actually the easiest, chosen by everyone. I mentioned dwarf maze cause it's not like everyone do jump/trap cause they're the most challanging and skip dwarf maze cause of being too easy. If someone really have to whine about difficulty of challange, why not whine about the one that actually noone runs?

The thing i'm against here is less about balance between paths (like i said, i consider it not balanced and not cause of jump room being too hard), and more about whining that one path is too hard in raid with 3 different (and 2 available at the same time) paths while 99.9% of quests in game are linear and do not provide any choice, you have to go exactly the way devs want you to. In wyrm you can choose the path you like most/hate least. In every other quest you're forced to run the same paths, no matter if you hate them/cannot complete them or not.

tldr; but Newcomers immediately jumps to the top of my list. It's miserable.

This, it's so bugged. Every single time i jump on those platforms i aim perfectly, i seems to be landing in the middle, inch below my feets there's solid "ground" and inch later platform disappears and appears 10 foots away from me.

[0ldschool]

This, it's so bugged. Every single time i jump on those platforms i aim perfectly, i seems to be landing in the middle, inch below my feets there's solid "ground" and inch later platform disappears and appears 10 foots away from me.

It's very annoying to me WITHOUT lag. With lag, it's a complete disaster. Wanna create the most frustrating quest ever? Combine the Newcomers jumping section with Wrath of Earth electric walls... enjoy everyone!! The good news is that they've moved away from precision jumping being required to complete a quest in later content. Knock on wood

[SpartanKiller13]

You yourself say the dwarf room isn't really an option. The trap room sounds bad for anyone not a thief or with evasion. Are these options I could choose to do by myself if the rest of the group did the jump room? I mean there seems to be an option. But, wink wink, it really isn't an option, is what it sounds like you are saying.

So both times you get to one of the intersections, there's 3 options (left/straight/right) and two of them have portals. So at stage 2, you have Jumping (left), Dwarf Maze (straight), and Traproom (right). Here's the Wiki page for Stage 2.

The rule-of-thumb that most groups (frankly every party I've seen) follow is: go right if possible, otherwise go left; never go straight. So in any case where the main party is going left, you'll have Jumping & Dwarf Maze as your options.

Dwarf Maze doesn't have enemies; it's a puzzle room that (according to Wiki) can be soloed in ~5 minutes pretty reasonably. That said, there's this note on the Wiki and I don't know if it's still relevant:

"Official Known Issues: Temple of the Deathwyrm can become incompletable if players complete the second of two available first floor interior rooms. Players should only complete one of the two rooms in order to prevent the raid from becoming incompletable."

If that's the case, you're stuck going with the party just for bug reasons. Sorry get zapped, have the carrier ferry you up.

tldr; but Newcomers immediately jumps to the top of my list. It's miserable. Add to that the large number of named items in the quest and it becomes a loot farming nightmare. No, it is THE loot farming nightmare. I wanted the Bracers of Hidden Blade for my assassin for a while, until I realized what farming this quest would mean. I just pretend that the loot in that quest doesn't exist when planning gear sets.

If you can source two sets of wings (Vault, EA's wings, Spring Attack, Cannith Boots, etc) as well as Feather Fall, you can jump from the far-left platform all the way to the end platform. You'll still have a few annoying jumps earlier, but it's a ton more manageable that way and you skip the worst parts.

Otherwise for you specifically, Fal likes running these so you might be able to hit him up for a couple runs where someone else hits the lever

[shores11]

I personally don't get irritated by any of the quests that require or make jumping optional. After all the jump skill is one of D&D's skill checks and in my opinion one of the better ones. With that said not all of my characters are skilled jumpers. As most most of you know Clerics are very challenged in this area. I like the jump options in quests as it offers additional variety to DDO and it isn't overly used in to many quests to make it annoying. However on to the quests I consider challenging with jumps in no particular order.

>> The Temple of the Deathwyrm - It has probably the hardest jumping challenge in the game. However as mentioned this is totally an optional path.
>> Lost at Sea - The ice jet jumps are challenging. However there is also an alternate path around it.
>> The Pit - The jumps are required to finish the quest but in my opinion not overly difficult. My no jumping cleric can make these jumps. I agree though with a previous post that this quest is one of my favorite in the game.
>> Creeping Death - Some nicely placed jumping on pillars to pull a lever.
>> Through a Dark Mirror - This quest adds in some jumping requirements in a darkened dungeon. Oh and if you fall watch out for spikes!

[Steelstar]

"Official Known Issues: Temple of the Deathwyrm can become incompletable if players complete the second of two available first floor interior rooms. Players should only complete one of the two rooms in order to prevent the raid from becoming incompletable."

If that's the case, you're stuck going with the party just for bug reasons. Sorry get zapped, have the carrier ferry you up.

This was fixed in Update 21 Patch 1.

[Kelledren]

Been playing for a couple years... ran Deathwyrm for first time a week ago, and never had I anything close in DDO lead to the profane ridden, spit flying, 460/200 blood pressure rant that occurred as I tried to “run” across those stupid jumping stones at the top. I always feel bad when Devs get such vitriol in some threads, but I was cursing somebody that day. Newcomers may take once or twice to get it, smash and burn took me 30+ min to learn to get to chest, but nothing like that raid. That and you have 11 people who’s time you are wasting, so you feel like the anchor on the Titanic.

At least now I know to bring the boots- but still not sure if I’ll be able to jump off that first platform. Or next time I will just ride the lightening again.

[Amorais]

I think all of these would be fine, but the lag is the biggest issue. You cant reliably make precision jumps in an online game where the lag is so prevalent and affects vary so wildly between players from different parts of the world.

I'm from the UK and since there's no EU servers anymore I get substantial lag. Making jump puzzles just adds a level of bonecrunching frustration to quests which really need not be there. I generally hate games which use the game's own shortcomings to make the game more difficult. For instance escort quests when the AI is basic to say the least, the game engine being unable to lead a target with missile weapons, making hitting things like the wind jet lever in Newcomers an exercise in both frustration and luck. Vast sized hitboxes making it next to impossible to snipe some enemies despite them being completely visible and also causing you to get stuck in places it looks like your ok to jump through.

Stalactites, I'm looking at you. Well, any dungeon dressing tbh which all have immense, basic, square hitboxes around them.

[NemesisAlien]

Lag is one thing, but the issue is why are we playing super mario in ddo?