Looking for Thoughts on Sorcerer/Fighter Build

[OldSchoolDNDGuy82]

Hello all,

I am working on a character build that is themed on an idea I had for an undead knight turned vengeful Revnant. He uses vengeful fire, summoned from the 9 Hells (Fire Savant enhancement tree), and Arcane magic to empower his weapons (Eldritch Knight enhancement tree). I know this kind of thing isn't 100% possible in DDO, so it's a pure role-play build. Since he can't be evil aligned I have to go with Chaotic Neutral.

He is a Sorcerer/Fighter multiclass and here is what I was thinking so far as far as ability scores and such:

Race: Dwarf (I need a sturdy race to make him as tank-like as I can).

STR 14
DEX 12
CON 12
INT 10
WIS 12
CHA 14

Spells:
Mage Armor
Burning Hands (Because hellfire must rain upon his foes)

Feat:
Empower Spell

Enhancements: Eldritch Knight

1. Eldritch Strike
2. Improved Mage Armor
3. Arcane Siphon
4. Improved Shield
5. Mystic Ward
6. Spellsword

Enhancements: Fire Savant

1. Fire Savant
2. Spell Critical: Fire I
3. Burning Hands
4. Conflagration
5. One With the Inferno

This should at least get me to level 5 or 6... and I can figure out the rest from there.

What do you think? Should I make changes or does this seem like a viable build? If you have any suggestions then I'm all ears.

Thank you

[Blabho]

Hello all,

I am working on a character build that is themed on an idea I had for an undead knight turned vengeful Revnant. He uses vengeful fire, summoned from the 9 Hells (Fire Savant enhancement tree), and Arcane magic to empower his weapons (Eldritch Knight enhancement tree). I know this kind of thing isn't 100% possible in DDO, so it's a pure role-play build. Since he can't be evil aligned I have to go with Chaotic Neutral.

He is a Sorcerer/Fighter multiclass and here is what I was thinking so far as far as ability scores and such:

Race: Dwarf (I need a sturdy race to make him as tank-like as I can).

STR 14
DEX 12
CON 12
INT 10
WIS 12
CHA 14

Spells:
Mage Armor
Burning Hands (Because hellfire must rain upon his foes)

Feat:
Empower Spell

Enhancements: Eldritch Knight

1. Eldritch Strike
2. Improved Mage Armor
3. Arcane Siphon
4. Improved Shield
5. Mystic Ward
6. Spellsword

Enhancements: Fire Savant

1. Fire Savant
2. Spell Critical: Fire I
3. Burning Hands
4. Conflagration
5. One With the Inferno

This should at least get me to level 5 or 6... and I can figure out the rest from there.

What do you think? Should I make changes or does this seem like a viable build? If you have any suggestions then I'm all ears.

Thank you

The stats are a bit too spread out IMO unless you have +7 tomes. You can probably dump Dex and Wis. Also, what fighting style are you going for?

[OldSchoolDNDGuy82]

Ah, I can definitely see your point about the stats being too spread out. As far as a fighting style I am imagining mostly melee combat, with spells thrown in for crowd control and increasing melee attack damage (I don't know if Eldritch Knight has anything to enhance missile attacks, but that would be a plus if there is something there that I'm not aware of).

[unbongwah]

There's not really any need to splash fighter onto an Eldritch Knight. You get pretty much everything you need from the EK tree eventually.

As mentioned, your stats are spread out way too thin. You're thinking too much like a PnP player. "Balanced stats" in DDO is pretty much an one-way ticket to Gimpville. The other sticking point will be feats. A sorcerer-based EK doesn't get the bonus caster feats a wizard does, which means you need to decide early on if you're focusing on casting or melee. Again, trying to do both will be a sure way of being good at neither.

If you pre-ordered Feywild's $80 or $130 bundle, you got the new Feydark Illusionist tree which provides CHA to damage. The only other CHA to damage options are Swashbuckler's Different Tack (which also requires Swashbuckling) and Purple Dragon Knight's Cormyrian Knight Training (pro: also provides tactics bonus con: only works with a few swords).

EDIT: there's also some discussion of STR-based EKs in this thread.

[Captain_Wizbang]

You're thinking too much like a PnP player. "Balanced stats" in DDO is pretty much an one-way ticket to Gimpville. ).

This my friend is quote worthy. Best post of the day right there.

[C-Dog]

(edit - I got on a roll, so a little WoT, sorry. Take each party separately.)

...an undead knight turned vengeful Revnant... I know this kind of thing isn't 100% possible in DDO, so it's a pure role-play build.

Your forum-join date is just over a year ago, so you have some familiarity w/ this "edition" of D&D. So I'm going to go into some detail so you can follow along, because there are several things going on here, and more than several that can go wrong.

A "pure role-play build" (aka "flavor build" or "concept character") can be a lot of fun, depending how you define "fun". If getting past Level 8 or so is included in your "fun", then it's important to not sacrifice too much functionality for the sake of concept.

My first character was patterned off of one of my favorite tabletop characters - a dwarf Rogue dipping into both Fighter and Cleric. He didn't get past Level 6, and parked as a mule for years. (Not until I completely* rebuilt him as a Ranger/Arti/Fighter) - whew, light a match!

(* When the Cleric "Domains" came out, all old clerics got a free +3 HoW, which was just enough to dump the Rogue and Cleric parts. And that gave me the feel I was looking for - Ole!)

Point is that not every concept from tabletop D&D is (easily) translatable into DDO, at least not directly. Sometimes you have to use unexpected class mixes to achieve the same feel that you're looking for. So don't fixate on building this with your "tabletop" experience and expectations - they just are not applicable here!

He is a Sorcerer/Fighter multiclass and here is what I was thinking so far as far...

K, he's not a "Sorcerer/Fighter", at least not yet - he's a "caster who fights melee". Start there and see how it goes, rather than limit yourself before you even start...

(If "Wizard" is a dealbreaker, that's fine, that's 100% your call - but understand that each such decision severely limits your options and the possible success of the build. In the end, does it matter that much if it works/fights the same? I mean, if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck and fights and casts spells like a duck... )

As far as a fighting style I am imagining mostly melee combat, with spells thrown in for crowd control and increasing melee attack damage (I don't know if Eldritch Knight has anything to enhance missile attacks, but that would be a plus if there is something there that I'm not aware of).

K - so much wrong with this statement. Let's break it down so you understand what's going on, starting w/ the biggest problems...

As far as a fighting style I am imagining mostly melee combat... if Eldritch Knight has anything to enhance missile attacks, but that would be a plus...

"Mostly"?!

Here's how it works...

Let's say that re "fighting" is rated on a scale of 1-10, where "1" is "not at all" and a "10" is a rare elite power build with 100% named gear; so a solid average first-life new-player forum-approved build is (we hope) at least a "7". (Probably not accurate, but let's just say that's close.) And let's say that "6" is about the minimum to stumble through most content on Elite, if barely.

And let's say your build can get to 6+ or so with melee - just enough to keep "fun" alive. Then your missile attacks are going to be "less", maybe in the 3-4 range. So why would you ever want to invest AP in moving your missile attacks up to 4-5, instead of investing in your melee and trying to get that up closer to 7? Why would you ever want to use anything but your best mode? (Aside from plinking at a distant enemy to "warm them up". )

You pick one style, and only one, and focus on that. If you can get to "7", you do that. If you can scrape up the juice to make that "7.1" or "7.5" or "7.95", you do that. If you could swap some enhancements or gear out and get ranged or magic up to "6" and not keep melee absolutely as high as possible... why would you ever do that?

...with spells thrown in for crowd control...
Burning Hands (Because hellfire must rain upon his foes)

CC spells are based on your "DC", or Difficulty Check, the Saving Throw that your target must make. Most combat spells also have a DC - if you target saves,k they take 1/2 damage (or NO damage if they have Evasion!) So any combat-casting, damage OR CC, wants the DC as high as possible, or you're really wasting your time and effort.

Your DC is based on [Caster Level + Casting Stat bonus + any Feats + Enhancements + Gear]. It's NOT something you "throw in" as an afterthought - nothing worse than casting Web or Mass Hold or whatever and watching your targets ignore it. You either focus on DC or you are unreliable.


And don't forget that "gear" is an important part of that puzzle. You only have 12 gear slots and 2 weapon slots, and you can only squeeze so many effects into those - and never all you could want for any one fighting style. Which means that any investment in a 2nd style is either a fortunate coincidence or a mistake.

One style. Nuff said.

Now, you are wise in saying "with spells thrown in for ... increasing melee attack damage..." - that does work! No Saving Throws that (most*) combat spells rely on, no need to worry about gear to help DC's - that part is workable.

(* There are some few mid- to higher-level combat spells that are not DC-based, they simply "work" - you can grab those, and some are not terrible! Those will help - once you get that far. But, first, you have to actually get that far... )


So, about the build itself...

This should at least get me to level 5 or 6... and I can figure out the rest from there.

What do you think?

I think - no, I know, both from personal experience and observation of similar stories on these forums, that "figuring out the rest later", aka "faking it", is a terrible plan in DDO. Like 90+% failure rate terrible, and often fatal to the point of "just time to delete the character". Really. Like my dwarf.

It's really easy to make a character that starts out strong and gets to Level 5-6, but starts to fail right about then and by Level 8-10 is stunningly inadequate. Really - I cannot emphasize this enough.

Get a character planner, build it out to Level 20, make 100% sure that you know where you're going and you can actually get there!

Here's a good Planner, very easy to use/read. It's no longer updated by the author (but it is by others), so the most recent game classes/races/updates are not included, but it's 100% compete for the basics and by far the best for what you're doing.

o https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...=1#post5534437

Feat:
Empower Spell

First, you'd want Maximize, the bigger brother of Empower.

But more importantly... (and say it with me!)... ONE COMBAT STYLE. And "combat casting" is not melee.


So, if you want melee, decide on a fighting style (2-weapon, sword and board, whatever), and find the best 7 core Feats you need to be successful w/ that. Then decide if you can dump any, maybe for "Extend" to make your combat buffs twice as long.

Since this is a "Flavor Build", you're pro'ly not going to Epics and will only be at 20 a short time (if at all!), so you could dip a little and it wouldn't hurt that much - early fun > late-game power. And Fighter 2 (or Monk 2?!) gets you 2 more melee Feats. You could even dip more heavily and get Ftr 3 for Stalwart Defender survivability - or Fighter 6 for a nice crit boost (Kensai's Strike with No Thought). Something like that might be where you want to head, Sorc (or Wiz?) w/ Fighter 6

And do compare Sorcerer to Wizard - it's possible that the latter might work better as gish. (If nothing else, the Harper tree can give you Int to To-Hit & Damage!)


Here is an old build that tries to make the other side of the coin work, strong(ish) casting w/ a little slicing - it works OK only because Electric Sorcerers are strong to start with, but ends up being maybe around a "6-7" in combat power when the day is done. And it would be a little stronger now w/ the EK changes since it was posted.

o https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...ry-Drow-Evoker

And here is a completely unfiltered list of various stripes of gishes (Sorcies, Wiz, and maybe others) - some still good, some old, some not well received - but they show various approaches to the concept. Check out the core feats, and the comments:

o https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...=1#post5850691
& x3+ https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...=1#post6052392
& https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...=1#post5850691
& https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...=1#post5935962
& https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...=1#post5908841
& https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...fferent-builds
& https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...=1#post6095527
& https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...r-First-Lifers
o https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...=1#post5829445
o https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...=1#post6021260
& https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...=1#post6061730

Since he can't be evil aligned I have to go with Chaotic Neutral.

As for alignment, all* CN does is mean that if you equip "lawful" weapons you'll have a negative level, and some rare "lawful" attacks will hurt more - with no "up side" re game mechanics. If the RP aspect is more important, more power to ya. (Me, I'd go with "Neutral, but w/ strong evil tendencies". )

(* There are some Epic options too - but those details are not relevant here.)