Alchemists and hoping to finally get my ban

[Memnir]

WHAT?

I thought we were perma-flagged?

Triggered. Some folks here are perma-triggered.

[droid327]

Wait hold on I got this....

BESURETODRINKYOUROVALT--

Aww hell

[Codect]

Tronks new poi alch has 179 crit multiplier on top of that so ***

?? I'm going to assume these are the ramblings of an insane person but would be open to being proved wrong.

[Discpsycho]

?? I'm going to assume these are the ramblings of an insane person but would be open to being proved wrong.

Huh. I was expecting to be proved wrong, but it's doable. As far as I can tell, the max is 182%, though I'd welcome any more sources that I'm missing:

- Scion of Fire: +25% spell critical damage

- Coalesced Magic set: +5% (+1% from a particular filigree, +4% set bonus)

- Bombardier: +2% while Pyrite (Liquid Power II)

- Wellspring of Power: +20% (30s, 3 min CD)

- Draconic Incarnation: +30% (+5% per core)

I would absolutely believe that Draconic is optimal for endgame, but even for an Alchemist it takes a lot of work to get high enough DCs to not need Magister. It seems like you could squeeze a bit more damage out of a different element because Draconic doesn't support Poison as well as other elements, though as a Poison Alch you can wear Silverthread Belt for better healing spells as well

[HungarianRhapsody]

Huh. I was expecting to be proved wrong, but it's doable. As far as I can tell, the max is 182%, though I'd welcome any more sources that I'm missing:

- Scion of Fire: +25% spell critical damage

- Coalesced Magic set: +5% (+1% from a particular filigree, +4% set bonus)

- Bombardier: +2% while Pyrite (Liquid Power II)

- Wellspring of Power: +20% (30s, 3 min CD)

- Draconic Incarnation: +30% (+5% per core)

I would absolutely believe that Draconic is optimal for endgame, but even for an Alchemist it takes a lot of work to get high enough DCs to not need Magister

Don't forget that Acid/Green draconic is Conjuration breath. That helps a lot.

[Codect]

Huh. I was expecting to be proved wrong, but it's doable. As far as I can tell, the max is 182%, though I'd welcome any more sources that I'm missing:

- Scion of Fire: +25% spell critical damage

- Coalesced Magic set: +5% (+1% from a particular filigree, +4% set bonus)

- Bombardier: +2% while Pyrite (Liquid Power II)

- Wellspring of Power: +20% (30s, 3 min CD)

- Draconic Incarnation: +30% (+5% per core)

I see, it is a disappointing misunderstanding then. I usually see people disregard the base 100 so would call what you listed 82%, not 182%. Though yes, I guess technically it is a 182% multiplier. I don't know why the OP thinks it is so broken then, my fire alch sits at 95-102% (195-202 in technically correct talk) depending on setup.

Shame, I was hoping there was something crazy going on.

p.s. The easy ones you're missing are greensteel +35% and arcane criticals +9%. I wouldn't advise coalesced set, other filigrees can be better utilised to bump your DCs to workable levels.

[HungarianRhapsody]

Huh. I was expecting to be proved wrong, but it's doable. As far as I can tell, the max is 182%, though I'd welcome any more sources that I'm missing:

- Scion of Fire: +25% spell critical damage

- Coalesced Magic set: +5% (+1% from a particular filigree, +4% set bonus)

- Bombardier: +2% while Pyrite (Liquid Power II)

- Wellspring of Power: +20% (30s, 3 min CD)

- Draconic Incarnation: +30% (+5% per core)

I would absolutely believe that Draconic is optimal for endgame, but even for an Alchemist it takes a lot of work to get high enough DCs to not need Magister. It seems like you could squeeze a bit more damage out of a different element because Draconic doesn't support Poison as well as other elements, though as a Poison Alch you can wear Silverthread Belt for better healing spells as well

Legendary Greensteel +20/+10+5
Night Horrors (Mabar) clicky +25% festive

[MaDLAB]

I see, it is a disappointing misunderstanding then. I usually see people disregard the base 100 so would call what you listed 82%, not 182%. Though yes, I guess technically it is a 182% multiplier. I don't know why the OP thinks it is so broken then, my fire alch sits at 95-102% (195-202 in technically correct talk) depending on setup.

Shame, I was hoping there was something crazy going on.

p.s. The easy ones you're missing are greensteel +35% and arcane criticals +9%. I wouldn't advise coalesced set, other filigrees can be better utilised to bump your DCs to workable levels.

actually. After careful testing. The 10% tier 2 from LGS does not apply to poison and only negative. so LGS is actually 25% not 35%.

[Alled78]

Not for cheating just for saying the truth

MF broken spell pen i get a not for that every time now

So alchs dont get edf bs or -10 bs now either according to til

What the fak and sorcs are in the toilet and

Tronks new poi alch has 179 crit multiplier on top of that so ***

Dam u r playin 20 wiz life last 20 lives.

Dunnow ho u can be bann oioioi

Wiz not in toilet yet. Sorc best way to lvl strim say

So np 179 is not alchi, even toilet sorcs can

[Discpsycho]

I see, it is a disappointing misunderstanding then. I usually see people disregard the base 100 so would call what you listed 82%, not 182%. Though yes, I guess technically it is a 182% multiplier. I don't know why the OP thinks it is so broken then, my fire alch sits at 95-102% (195-202 in technically correct talk) depending on setup.

Shame, I was hoping there was something crazy going on.

p.s. The easy ones you're missing are greensteel +35% and arcane criticals +9%. I wouldn't advise coalesced set, other filigrees can be better utilised to bump your DCs to workable levels.

Oops, I always forget about Greensteel. Mumble grumble no Shroud PUGs on my server grumph murgh...

Arcane Criticals = Energy Criticals, the EPL? Wiki says those are crit chance, not multiplier

And you're right re: Coalesced, I was operating under the "maximize damage" assumption and writing off the DC discussion. I've heard anecdotally that Alchemists don't struggle with endgame DCs but have no idea by how much they beat the no-fail values

[MaDLAB]

Oops, I always forget about Greensteel. Mumble grumble no Shroud PUGs on my server grumph murgh...

Arcane Criticals = Energy Criticals, the EPL? Wiki says those are crit chance, not multiplier

And you're right re: Coalesced, I was operating under the "maximize damage" assumption and writing off the DC discussion. I've heard anecdotally that Alchemists don't struggle with endgame DCs but have no idea by how much they beat the no-fail values

Without sacrificing too much, a heroic/racial completionist Alch that is an INT race can walk around in reaper with 129 DC self buffered and potted without bothering with reaction, reaction spike adds 6 on top. Sacrificing DPS, can get slightly more but not a lot more.

However, if you choose to maximize damage (multi-piece LGS + scion of fire instead of earth + using wellspring of power or even worse, run in draconic), the DC goes down by a very significant margin and you won't be able to run Sharn R10 very effectively.

[Alrik_Fassbauer]

So np 179 is not alchi, even toilet sorcs can

I'd rather use a Cleric for that : Cleanse everything ...

[HungarianRhapsody]

Without sacrificing too much, a heroic/racial completionist Alch that is an INT race can walk around in reaper with 129 DC self buffered and potted without bothering with reaction, reaction spike adds 6 on top. Sacrificing DPS, can get slightly more but not a lot more.

However, if you choose to maximize damage (multi-piece LGS + scion of fire instead of earth + using wellspring of power or even worse, run in draconic), the DC goes down by a very significant margin and you won't be able to run Sharn R10 very effectively.

Running Magister instead of Draconic and not taking Wellspring and not going Dragonborn is sacrificing a whole lot. If you’re hitting the DC you need, those choices make a huge difference in killing power.

[MaDLAB]

Running Magister instead of Draconic and not taking Wellspring and not going Dragonborn is sacrificing a whole lot. If you’re hitting the DC you need, those choices make a huge difference in killing power.

At least there is some semblance of blanace ;P alche is not all powerful like OP is trying to say.

Alche either sacrifice some dps to cc in sharn. Or go full cannon and not be able to do sharn stuff. There is no almighty alche that can out dps a well built pally and still effectively CC in sharn R10. I asked Tronko, he moved out of the built OP described, it is just not that effectively at DC casting. His new build, the kill count goes down the drain after running with him and seeing it in action.

[janave]

At least there is some semblance of blanace ;P alche is not all powerful like OP is trying to say.

To be honest, it is a little sad to see that ONE specific raid instance carries so much weight in endgame itemization. I would expect an end-game raid to push these values by effective 5-10% with an exceptional-stacking typing, and raids from the past but near in level to effective <=5%. (design maintains interest long term, but dont over power other everything else in the game)

LGS +35% and Material Set (4pcs) 29%?+ is really too high.


Also Fire Scion is too much cookie cutter, we only have a single choice for a pure damage caster, what kind choice is that?

Here is how to distribute more fairly imo: ( numbers are subjective + based on available spells ) feel free to comment

• Fire Scion: 20% Fire crit multiplier; +10% universal critical multiplier
• Earth Scion: Current + 20% Acid and +20% Force critical multiplier
• Water Scion: Current + 20% Cold crit multiplier; +10% universal critical multiplier
• Air Scion: Current + 20% Electric + 10% force critical multiplier
• Fey Scion: Current+ 20% Sonic crit multiplier, +10% force critical multiplier

Master of Fire/Earth/Water/Air...etc could also boost crit multiplier by a non stacking (eg: insight bonus) so that LGS is not the only source for this effect.


Many more new interesting choices, and build diversity available once the dps magiks is not cookie cuttered into a single feat.

[MaDLAB]

To be honest, it is a little sad to see that ONE specific raid instance carries so much weight in endgame itemization. I would expect an end-game raid to push these values by effective 5-10% with an exceptional-stacking typing, and raids from the past but near in level to effective <=5%. (design maintains interest long term, but dont over power other everything else in the game)

LGS +35% and Material Set (4pcs) 29%?+ is really too high.


Also Fire Scion is too much cookie cutter, we only have a single choice for a pure damage caster, what kind choice is that?

Here is how to distribute more fairly imo: ( numbers are subjective + based on available spells ) feel free to comment

• Fire Scion: 20% Fire crit multiplier; +10% universal critical multiplier
• Earth Scion: Current + 20% Acid and +20% Force critical multiplier
• Water Scion: Current + 20% Cold crit multiplier; +10% universal critical multiplier
• Air Scion: Current + 20% Electric + 10% force critical multiplier
• Fey Scion: Current+ 20% Sonic crit multiplier, +10% force critical multiplier

Master of Fire/Earth/Water/Air...etc could also boost crit multiplier by a non stacking (eg: insight bonus) so that LGS is not the only source for this effect.


Many more new interesting choices, and build diversity available once the dps magiks is not cookie cuttered into a single feat.

If you are talking about scion feat + LGS stuff, sorc has exactly the same opportunity to use, no?

And it actually sucks a bit more for alche as the default elemental type that has better DC itemization suffers on the LGS side. The triple Crit multiplier LGS only applies two tiers on poison. Tier 1 and 3. Tier 2's 10% does not apply to poison.

I guess in the end, it really comes down to what kind of DC you can squeeze out to do sharn R10 in an acceptable manner while still pump that dps. Another good feature is poison multivial don't get evaded so purely from a damage dealing perspective, it works much better at the very high end content ;P

[Morroiel]

If you are talking about scion feat + LGS stuff, sorc has exactly the same opportunity to use, no?

And it actually sucks a bit more for alche as the default elemental type that has better DC itemization suffers on the LGS side. The triple Crit multiplier LGS only applies two tiers on poison. Tier 1 and 3. Tier 2's 10% does not apply to poison.

I guess in the end, it really comes down to what kind of DC you can squeeze out to do sharn R10 in an acceptable manner while still pump that dps. Another good feature is poison multivial don't get evaded so purely from a damage dealing perspective, it works much better at the very high end content ;P

The best alchs aren't poison based, they are fire based (poison/negative doesn't even benefit from energy criticals). You want to leverage dragonborn since wings from it are pretty much mandatory due to the point blank range of the important cc spells. You don't need top tier DCs on an alch or a sorc. You need to hit somewhere in the 110-120 range and that's it. Anything that will make their saves against your cc, will fail their reflex saves. And anything that fails they save against your cc is helpless, and will fail your reflex save blasty spells.

Alch's aren't strong just because of crit multi. They are strong because they can heal themselves even on r10. They have 2x meteor swarm thanks to multivial sla. And with boosts, they have a lot of versatility and extra fire power. The only thing sorcs beat them on at the moment is spell points, but even this is a wash as you should be rotating while benefiting from a pyrite burst for -50% spell point cost. Sorcs would have advantage with longer duration ccs, but r10 equalizes that.

20 points in dragonborn (wings + 3 dcs) + 41 in bombadier + 23 in falconry (helpless), fire (though there's a case for going frost/ice)

[Sho-sa]

I and most other people dont speak gibberish so you may wish to clarify you *truth* and turn it into english... just a thought.

Good luck with the ban, but I think the Devs have to be able to read your post to determine if you violated the forum posting rules.

[HungarianRhapsody]

The best alchs aren't poison based, they are fire based (poison/negative doesn't even benefit from energy criticals). You want to leverage dragonborn since wings from it are pretty much mandatory due to the point blank range of the important cc spells. You don't need top tier DCs on an alch or a sorc. You need to hit somewhere in the 110-120 range and that's it. Anything that will make their saves against your cc, will fail their reflex saves. And anything that fails they save against your cc is helpless, and will fail your reflex save blasty spells.

Alch's aren't strong just because of crit multi. They are strong because they can heal themselves even on r10. They have 2x meteor swarm thanks to multivial sla. And with boosts, they have a lot of versatility and extra fire power. The only thing sorcs beat them on at the moment is spell points, but even this is a wash as you should be rotating while benefiting from a pyrite burst for -50% spell point cost. Sorcs would have advantage with longer duration ccs, but r10 equalizes that.

20 points in dragonborn (wings + 3 dcs) + 41 in bombadier + 23 in falconry (helpless), fire (though there's a case for going frost/ice)

Acid lets you use conjuration dc for dragon breath. Itemization is a little weird because Acid has no main hand weapon in Wild Flame’s class but that’s +lots on the breath DC

[Tsutti]

Sorcs would have advantage with longer duration ccs, but r10 equalizes that.

What cc do sorcs have to ever possibly compete with alch? Alchs have multiple 2+ minute ccs, Flash Freeze duration doesn't even seem to be affected by reaper reduction, not sure about Flesh to Gold or Vein Freeze and not sure of vein freeze's duration to begin with. Sorcs have what, web? Maybe I am forgetting some cc spell sorcs have, but I'm pretty sure nothing can even remotely compete with alch cc atm on any difficulty.