Are Iconic Past Lives worth it?

[rabidfox]

As far as usefulness goes I consider the order to be Epic PL > Iconic PL > Racial PL > Heroic PL.

I'd rate 3x paladin more than iconic (or ideally get them while doing iconic) for overall power gain. That heal amp really pays off life after life.

[Weemadarthur]

As far as usefulness goes I consider the order to be Epic PL > Iconic PL > Racial PL > Heroic PL.

The issue with these flow charts is although they are basically correct they dont tell a full story.

The fact is not all past lives are equal. I would say that 3x palli and barb will do more for every character than any other combination of 6 past lives. However once you have those any 6 EPL's I would agree have more power than any other 6 past lives. Then as more lives are gained Racial starts becoming a bigger and better attraction just due to how back loaded its system is. Iconics for another example you cant look at in a vacuum as they also grant the heroic past life too.

So I would say depending on how far into the game you are, what past lives you already have and most importantly what you are currently intending to play the order you have supplied will jump around a lot.

Rather than a flow chart I would go with something like the following:-

Epic past lives are always useful and a great way to add survivability to a character. Have the nice perk of having the option to HTR or RTR straight after if not iconic.

Racial past lives are a very backloaded system but the more you put into it the better rewards you will get in return. Some builds can only become optimal with extra racial points but that will normally require an investment of 15+ PL's to achieve.

Heroic past lives can vary hugely in usefulness depending on build. A few of these past lives are useful for almost every character but others are very build specific. I would go as far as to say though that for certain classes certain heroic past lives are mandatory to be optimal.

Iconic past lives are nice additional bonuses that always come with a heroic PL attached. If you have a build that can utilize an Iconic character they are always a good choice but at the cost of both EPL's and Racials.

[HungarianRhapsody]

The issue with these flow charts is although they are basically correct they dont tell a full story.

The fact is not all past lives are equal. I would say that 3x palli and barb will do more for every character than any other combination of 6 past lives. However once you have those any 6 EPL's I would agree have more power than any other 6 past lives. Then as more lives are gained Racial starts becoming a bigger and better attraction just due to how back loaded its system is. Iconics for another example you cant look at in a vacuum as they also grant the heroic past life too.

Barb? Really?

I mean, an extra 30 HP is nice, but it's just 30 HP.

Paladin shines as the best past life for any build as far as I'm concerned, but Barb is just there for Completionist for me.

3x Paladin no matter what your build looks like
3x Wizard if you're going to be an offensive caster.
3x [insert spell school here] past life if you're focused on that spell school
Other than that, it's the Epic past lives and the Racial past lives if you're going to go nuts on reincarnation and get Racial Completionist and pick up your class Completionist with your Iconic lives because if you're going to get Racial Completionist, then you're the kind of person who will get class Completionist eventually anyway.

[HungarianRhapsody]

Iconic past lives are nice additional bonuses that always come with a heroic PL attached. If you have a build that can utilize an Iconic character they are always a good choice but at the cost of both EPL's and Racials.

Forgot to mention in the last comment - I find that an Iconic run of 15-30 is faster and more fun than a Heroic run of 1-20 *AND* it's faster and easier and more fun to pick up Heart Seeds than Tokens of the 12, so if you're going to do a Class life, then you might as well do it as an Iconic.

[ggmarquez]

Barb? Really?

I mean, an extra 30 HP is nice, but it's just 30 HP.

Paladin shines as the best past life for any build as far as I'm concerned, but Barb is just there for Completionist for me.

personally, i put barbarian in front of paladin. i also prioritize primal epl's above the others.
hit point total will allow uninterrupted combat to continue for longer, the higher it gets. heal-amp only works when there is incoming healing.
i'll use a level 18 rogue as an example:
500 hp, 30 hamp -- i can sustain dps until 250 hit points have been lost, then have to stop and heal back for 250. even with only 30 hamp i'll get back 250 hp quickly.
1000 hp, 60 hamp -- i can keep fighting till 500 hit points have been lost. with 60 hamp it might take two incoming heals to get 500 hp back.
1500 hp, 100 hamp -- i can keep fighting till 750 hit points have been lost. with 100 hamp it will take more than 2 incoming heals to get back to full.
i'll admit i've never gotten 1500 hp by level 18 on a rogue. but i would prefer the hp's rather than than the hamps.

[awar1234]

For me personally..

3x PDK + PALLY. +9prr/+30 hamp/ +3 save boost/speed boost
3x deep gnome + warlock. + 9mrr +9 mmr

Just use the iconics to get DOUBLE TR

And while you are at 30 save your SAGAS and only get 7490 kills in thunderholme/orchard/barovia/cogs/wheelon
Do an epic TR back to 20, drink a nice pot (30% or more), go take your sagas and run around for the last few kills in slayers...... 20 to about 25/26 in 30 minutes

that will be 6 epic TRS. Get three BRACE FOR +9prr/+3 all saves and three ancient knowledge for +9mrr/+3% element absorb

[HungarianRhapsody]

personally, i put barbarian in front of paladin. i also prioritize primal epl's above the others.
hit point total will allow uninterrupted combat to continue for longer, the higher it gets. heal-amp only works when there is incoming healing.
i'll use a level 18 rogue as an example:
500 hp, 30 hamp -- i can sustain dps until 250 hit points have been lost, then have to stop and heal back for 250. even with only 30 hamp i'll get back 250 hp quickly.
1000 hp, 60 hamp -- i can keep fighting till 500 hit points have been lost. with 60 hamp it might take two incoming heals to get 500 hp back.
1500 hp, 100 hamp -- i can keep fighting till 750 hit points have been lost. with 100 hamp it will take more than 2 incoming heals to get back to full.
i'll admit i've never gotten 1500 hp by level 18 on a rogue. but i would prefer the hp's rather than than the hamps.

Primal EPLs are nice, but 3 Barbarian past lives are just 30 HP. You’re not going from 500 to 1500 HP with the help of Barbarian past lives.

I mean I’m not going to say no to free HP, but 10 HP for an entire life’s worth of work isn’t that impressive.

[ggmarquez]

Primal EPLs are nice, but 3 Barbarian past lives are just 30 HP. You’re not going from 500 to 1500 HP with the help of Barbarian past lives.

I mean I’m not going to say no to free HP, but 10 HP for an entire life’s worth of work isn’t that impressive.

yeah. that's certainly a fair assessment. it's a question of where do you get more hp, especially in heroics, and especially especially on a low hp class build. stacking an extra 30 hp from level 1, on a pure rogue, helps a bunch. by the time you hit 30 it's just another drop in the bucket, but it does make getting to 30 a bit easier.

[Blase]

3x Scoundrel for the 30% speed boost.

Never having to slot speed is priceless.

[rabidfox]

3x Scoundrel for the 30% speed boost.

Never having to slot speed is priceless.

Until one gets a Quiver of Alacrity; it's still worth farming that as it then opens stacking the PDK iconic action boost speed run which one can't do with 3x Scoundrel. But pre-quiver, yeah, scoundrel is great to get and likely way easier than farming a quiver.

[HungarianRhapsody]

yeah. that's certainly a fair assessment. it's a question of where do you get more hp, especially in heroics, and especially especially on a low hp class build. stacking an extra 30 hp from level 1, on a pure rogue, helps a bunch. by the time you hit 30 it's just another drop in the bucket, but it does make getting to 30 a bit easier.

When I did the racials that I did (not all of them), I XP gemmed my levels 1-4 and then ran reaper with the level 3 cleric hireling. I had a Shield spell and I had a Billion AC because of Martial epic past lives. I would periodically take damage and had the level 3 hireling heal me. As soon as I hit Heal scroll level, healing was practically instant. If you die, the cleric hireling you parked at the entrance raises you.

I never missed the 20 HP beyond the 10 I got for completionist. Worst case, you can run something on Elite at low level and Cure Serious pots are enough to top you off. 14 or 16 Con and a Con item and killing things at a distance = way more bulletproof than a “high HP” class that as to melee.

[Alrik_Fassbauer]

45 prr of the full divine sphere and 3x pdk is quite a nice starting point for any character.

Except for first-lifers, of course.

3x Scoundrel for the 30% speed boost.

Never having to slot speed is priceless.

This just further increases the gap between first-lifers & long-lifers / end game players.

Now I know why my own melee character is always arriving so slowly to the battle, even although it's an melee Rogue character : She is a first-lifer.
At the time that character arrives at the battle, casters have blown everything away.

For me personally..

3x PDK + PALLY. +9prr/+30 hamp/ +3 save boost/speed boost
3x deep gnome + warlock. + 9mrr +9 mmr

Just use the iconics to get DOUBLE TR

And while you are at 30 save your SAGAS and only get 7490 kills in thunderholme/orchard/barovia/cogs/wheelon
Do an epic TR back to 20, drink a nice pot (30% or more), go take your sagas and run around for the last few kills in slayers...... 20 to about 25/26 in 30 minutes

that will be 6 epic TRS. Get three BRACE FOR +9prr/+3 all saves and three ancient knowledge for +9mrr/+3% element absorb

An even bigger gap between first-lifers and long-lifers.

And then people come to these forums and rant about characters being so squishy and not survive Reaper ...

[kmoustakas]

Heyas, I was curious if you guys thought Iconic Past Lives were worth it.

I don't have any Iconic Past Lives done yet.

I will be (re)getting Heroic Completionist this week with an Alchemist life (about to turn level 12...excited to see how Multi-vial is).

I am not triple heroic completionist

I do have Epic Completionist, but I do not have all the epic past lives, and they seem really strong.

I have 3 Human and 3 Warforged past lives and 1 Dragonborn as far as Racials go.

I tend to play the following races/class combos:

Warforged: Sorc, WIZ, Artificer and Favored Soul

Fleshy: Cleric and Bard (though I want to try Druid again)

I like "hybrid builds" a lot. Buffer/healer/melee. I want to try new EK WIZ.

Anyway, the way I look at it...

Racial PL + Epic PL > Iconic PL and Heroic Class PL

Though I think the Bladeforged past life might be good for a guy who plays Warforged a lot?

Anyway, what do you guys think?

Are there "low hanging fruit" Iconics that everyone likes? PDK seems neat with the sprint boost, BF looks nice with Repair spell power, and Deep Gnome looks cool with Acid Spell power.

Anyway, I appreciate all input!

All past lives are worth it because they add up. If you feel 'forced' to do them don't do them. I try to slot them in the time that I want to try a build, for example I loved getting druid past lives on my artificer by doing 18 druid/1 fighter/1 barbarian via pdk so I got both pdk and druid past lives at once.

This is a game, not a job. We get so into it we forget some times.

[Weemadarthur]

Barb? Really?

I mean, an extra 30 HP is nice, but it's just 30 HP.

Paladin shines as the best past life for any build as far as I'm concerned, but Barb is just there for Completionist for me.

3x Paladin no matter what your build looks like
3x Wizard if you're going to be an offensive caster.
3x [insert spell school here] past life if you're focused on that spell school
Other than that, it's the Epic past lives and the Racial past lives if you're going to go nuts on reincarnation and get Racial Completionist and pick up your class Completionist with your Iconic lives because if you're going to get Racial Completionist, then you're the kind of person who will get class Completionist eventually anyway.

30 hp at cap may be trivial but 30 hp at lvl 1 is a big bonus especially when 1st starting out. You perspective here is heavily influenced by end game play only. For someone who is going to be TRing a lot and spending enough time at low levels without several years of experience that 30 hp can and does help quite a lot especially when doing low hp toons.

[Weemadarthur]

Except for first-lifers, of course.

Quite obviously this isn't about a 1st life character as it was about why PDK is so popular as a past life. Reason being it stacks with the divine past lives to give the 45 prr stated as an end result. If just looking at it as a single past life feat the 3prr is still nice and if combined with Palli heroic PL for the +10 heal amp is probably one of the better options for a 1st life character.

[HungarianRhapsody]

30 hp at cap may be trivial but 30 hp at lvl 1 is a big bonus especially when 1st starting out. You perspective here is heavily influenced by end game play only. For someone who is going to be TRing a lot and spending enough time at low levels without several years of experience that 30 hp can and does help quite a lot especially when doing low hp toons.

I TR a lot.

When you TR, how long are you spending from 1-5?
How long are you spending from 5-10? From 15-20?

Even without XP gems, you’re level 1 and 2 for barely any time and both gear and Enhancements are vastly superior to what we had available a few years ago.

And if you are having so much trouble with low levels, don’t forget that Iconic builds are available and you can start at level 15 with Sharn gear.

[Weemadarthur]

I TR a lot.

When you TR, how long are you spending from 1-5?
How long are you spending from 5-10? From 15-20?

Even without XP gems, you’re level 1 and 2 for barely any time and both gear and Enhancements are vastly superior to what we had available a few years ago.

And if you are having so much trouble with low levels, don’t forget that Iconic builds are available and you can start at level 15 with Sharn gear.

Sorry but I think you misunderstood what I was saying. I personally have no trouble and I expect you don't either. For a new player though those extra hp can be the difference from an easy quest and a complete wipe. I spend a lot of time helping newer and returning players and when you dont have the quest/build knowledge and gear that us longer term players have every little bit extra helps. Like I said before in the grand scheme I agree 30 hp isn't going to make or break a build but for those starting out and still getting to grips with the game they help a lot. After the heal amp from Palli I find most newer players get more benefit from those extra hp in early levels than from any other past life. Still it is just an opinion and you are welcome to not agree with it :P

[thunderhawk123]

Past lives are end game nothing more to do than grind past lives and the same old quest 1000000000 times.