What does it take to be Viable at Cap

[Matsu_Ieyasu]

As a casual player I understand my character(s) are not the most min maxed on the server, nor are the worst characters on the server either, I am somewhere in the middle of that spectrum. Lately I have found myself playing more often than my guildies. With this extra time I have been attempting to push one of my characters to be "better".

The character I enjoy playing is a pajama wearing Wood Elf, Centered Paladin, Fighter, Monk multi-class character. I know it is a variation of an old build, but it does the trick for me. It is fun to play. I have healing, evasion, and in discussions with puggers I think decent stats. I can crush Legendary Hard Content, with barely a scratch. If I step up to Elite or Reaper I get beat like a red-headed step child caught stealing my baby sister's candy. I can complete a few Gianthold Epic quests on Reaper, but that's about it as I sit at cap. What stat or item is holding me back?

Two past lives - 36 point build
Str - 82 Self Buffed sustained
Dex - 46
Con - 62
Int - 18
Wis - 41
Chr - 42

AC - 112
HP - 1650 | 1800 (Reaper)
Dodge 33%
Fort - 239
PRR - 97
MRR - 18

My Damage in Reaper is 800 (Base), 4,500 (Critical), 27,000 (Adrenaline)

I only have 8 Reaper points (4 in Dread Adversary | 4 in Dread Barricade)

In both Elite and Reaper 1 I seem to get nickled and dimed to death with damage in the high 100s and low 200s. Not that I am not occasional critted for 16,000 HP damage but most of my deaths are strings of these small amounts of damage together that is the issue.

In the end this build may be min maxed to the best extent it can, but I have to believe it is close to being able to be viable in at least Elite at level 30.

[Monkey_Archer]

As a casual player I understand my character(s) are not the most min maxed on the server, nor are the worst characters on the server either, I am somewhere in the middle of that spectrum. Lately I have found myself playing more often than my guildies. With this extra time I have been attempting to push one of my characters to be "better".

The character I enjoy playing is a pajama wearing Wood Elf, Centered Paladin, Fighter, Monk multi-class character. I know it is a variation of an old build, but it does the trick for me. It is fun to play. I have healing, evasion, and in discussions with puggers I think decent stats. I can crush Legendary Hard Content, with barely a scratch. If I step up to Elite or Reaper I get beat like a red-headed step child caught stealing my baby sister's candy. I can complete a few Gianthold Epic quests on Reaper, but that's about it as I sit at cap. What stat or item is holding me back?

Two past lives - 36 point build
Str - 82 Self Buffed sustained
Dex - 46
Con - 62
Int - 18
Wis - 41
Chr - 42

AC - 112
HP - 1650 | 1800 (Reaper)
Dodge 33%
Fort - 239
PRR - 97
MRR - 18

My Damage in Reaper is 800 (Base), 4,500 (Critical), 27,000 (Adrenaline)

I only have 8 Reaper points (4 in Dread Adversary | 4 in Dread Barricade)

In both Elite and Reaper 1 I seem to get nickled and dimed to death with damage in the high 100s and low 200s. Not that I am not occasional critted for 16,000 HP damage but most of my deaths are strings of these small amounts of damage together that is the issue.

In the end this build may be min maxed to the best extent it can, but I have to believe it is close to being able to be viable in at least Elite at level 30.

Your hp could be higher, but its ok considering the lack of reaper points. The biggest area for improvement is definitely PRR/MRR. With that class split 200 PRR should be possible, and hitting the 50 MRR cap will help as well.

112 AC is mostly useless, and not worth building for without past lives. Drop any gear/enhancements taken for AC and replace them with anything else, PRR/hp if possible.

[Matsu_Ieyasu]

Your hp could be higher, but its ok considering the lack of reaper points. The biggest area for improvement is definitely PRR/MRR. With that class split 200 PRR should be possible, and hitting the 50 MRR cap will help as well.

112 AC is mostly useless, and not worth building for without past lives. Drop any gear/enhancements taken for AC and replace them with anything else, PRR/hp if possible.

So where do I find this additional PRR?

Legendary Turncoat (+54)
Legendary Planar Compass (+17 Insightful)
Legendary Family Sigil (+2 Mythic)
Forest Origin (+10)
Damage Reduction - FOTW) (+6) don't have
Other?

[Discpsycho]

So where do I find this additional PRR?

Legendary Turncoat (+54)
Legendary Planar Compass (+17 Insightful)
Legendary Family Sigil (+2 Mythic)
Forest Origin (+10)
Damage Reduction - FOTW) (+6) don't have
Other?

Kinda curious about your AP split. T5 kensai for centering with some THF weapon, but otherwise?

+ 25 Stalwart/Sacred defense (8 AP)
+ 20 Iron Skin (8 AP)

[Yamani]

So where do I find this additional PRR?

Legendary Turncoat (+54)
Legendary Planar Compass (+17 Insightful)
Legendary Family Sigil (+2 Mythic)
Forest Origin (+10)
Damage Reduction - FOTW) (+6) don't have
Other?

20 Ironskin.
20 Improved combat expertise
Some from sacred defender.
Put all your reaper points into grim barricade till you get the 4th core.

[Tsutti]

Two past lives - 36 point build
Str - 82 Self Buffed sustained
Dex - 46
Con - 62
Int - 18
Wis - 41
Chr - 42

AC - 112
HP - 1650 | 1800 (Reaper)
Dodge 33%
Fort - 239
PRR - 97
MRR - 18

My Damage in Reaper is 800 (Base), 4,500 (Critical), 27,000 (Adrenaline)

I only have 8 Reaper points (4 in Dread Adversary | 4 in Dread Barricade)

In both Elite and Reaper 1 I seem to get nickled and dimed to death with damage in the high 100s and low 200s. Not that I am not occasional critted for 16,000 HP damage but most of my deaths are strings of these small amounts of damage together that is the issue.

In the end this build may be min maxed to the best extent it can, but I have to believe it is close to being able to be viable in at least Elite at level 30.

As mentioned above, that AC isn't worth even thinking about getting higher. You kinda need to be a in heavy armor and either be a tank or have a lot of martial past lives to have a chance at getting usable AC.

A few ways have been mentioned for you to get higher PRR, you should use all except possibly Improved Combat Expertise if you didn't take the feat Combat Expertise and don't have room to take it, if you have room to take it and didn't I'd suggest an epic reincarnation (or lesser if you don't want to take the time to go form 20-30 again, the ETR will give you an epic past life though) and take it for the PRR. With evasion the MRR isn't as big a deal as it would otherwise be but you should probably still get it to the 50 cap.
https://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Legend...k_Opal_Bracers
https://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Legendary_Cursebane_Focus
https://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Legendary_Bronze_Figurine
https://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Legend...f_Sure_Strikes
https://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Legendary_Arcsteel_Brim
https://ddowiki.com/page/Slave_Lords_Crafting
Some items that aren't from raids and won't conflict with part of the family set to get you to 50 MRR. Arcsteel Brim is from Sharn and Cursebane Focus is from Ravenloft (in case you don't have those) but the others you should have access to for sure. Slave Lords crafting you would just have to farm the first slavers quest a few runs for the ingreds, might need to run part 2 or part 3 depending on the item slot you want it to go in but one run of either should probably drop a craftable item in one of the chests for you (especially if you run in a group, then just ask them to pass you one if it drops). Then you just step in the first quest to craft, talk to the crafting person and look for the Sheltering one.

Aside from PRR and MRR your stats seem perfectly viable for EE, I expect that you are already plenty strong to do well in groups as long as you aren't the one taking all aggro. Your PRR is the main thing holding you back from soloing EE, getting that even just to 150 should make it possible for you to solo most EE quests as long as you're careful and R1 if you have enough heal amp to reliably self heal.

Was mentioned you should spend all reaper points in Grim Barricade until you have 21 spent there for the 4th core, agree with this. Just want to note you should spend points on PRR rather than MRR in case you were thinking of putting MRR, a single item will already cap your MRR and physical damage tends to do the most anyway so you'll get more from spending PRR imo.


I just thought of one issue with using Sacred Defense, which is that I'm pretty sure you can't Adrenaline while in this stance. I think it will still be beneficial for you, so I'd suggest either turning the stance off for grouping and running Fury of the Wild but using the stance for solo and running Fatesinger, or just leave the stance on and run Fatesinger all the time. This is, of course, assuming that Adren doesn't work with the stance; if it does, then you should probably still run Fury.


EDIT: I'm dumb, of course you have sharn you're using turncoat. Replace https://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Legendary_Planar_Compass
with
https://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Legend...ed_Castigators
for better insightful PRR, would prevent you from using Black Opal bracers (above) for MRR but this also gives MRR and there would still be other options for your MRR. With these bracers, actually, Sacred Defense would cap your MRR for sure so no need for another MRR item.

You also have no quality PRR, https://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Legend...#39;s_Champion can fix that.
In case you are worried that you can't use Sacred Defense without heavy armor, you can use the first line of upgrades and the stance itself no matter what you're wearing.

Forgot to mention, I'm curious: what is hitting you for 16k in R1??

[HungarianRhapsody]

What’s viable?

I die fairly often on R10 in a party even though I make sure not to grab aggro.

I can run R2 reliably and only die when I’m not paying attention or when I’m trying to do a new thing.

I can sleepwalk through Elite.

...on my main.


with a first life no tome character, shift everything down one. Die while piking in R2. Mostly not die on Elite. Sleepwalk through Hard.

I don’t think I’ve ever met two people who had the same definition of “viable”.

[Matsu_Ieyasu]

20 Ironskin.
20 Improved combat expertise
Some from sacred defender.
Put all your reaper points into grim barricade till you get the 4th core.

16 Wood Elf
34 Kensei
25 KotC
01 Hensin Mystic
06 Harper

Missing my tome of Inherent Universal Action Point tome in the Character Sheet, which provided all kinds of question marks.

[Seph1roth5]

How's your dodge/concealment? I know it gets cut down in reaper but if you're doing low reapers it can still be pretty helpful.

I've been playing my bard a lot lately and he's not exactly twinked out. He's a 19/1 bard/fighter pdk because I wanted my melee not to suck. Mainly spellsinger with a warchanter secondary. And he manages to hold his own in reaper 1 fairly well. True he has displacement on 100%, but also 27% dodge.

I guess he's not exactly in the front row heh, but still.

[Matsu_Ieyasu]

Some items that aren't from raids and won't conflict with part of the family set to get you to 50 MRR. Arcsteel Brim is from Sharn and Cursebane Focus is from Ravenloft (in case you don't have those) but the others you should have access to for sure. Slave Lords crafting you would just have to farm the first slavers quest a few runs for the ingreds, might need to run part 2 or part 3 depending on the item slot you want it to go in but one run of either should probably drop a craftable item in one of the chests for you (especially if you run in a group, then just ask them to pass you one if it drops). Then you just step in the first quest to craft, talk to the crafting person and look for the Sheltering one.

Does Sheltering Stack with Physical Sheltering?

[Tsutti]

13 Wood Elf (Would like to spend 16)
33 Kensei
25 KotC
06 Sacred Defender (Now)
01 Hensin Mystic
04 Harper

Missing my tome of Inherent Universal Action Point tome in the Character Sheet, which provided all kinds of question marks.

Huh what's the harper for?

The Henshin is nice but if points can be moved for iron skin it might be worth it.

What T4 stuff KotC do you have? Personally I think that with how thinspread your points will end up the only T4 thing particularly worth taking would be the 30 hamp, if you're taking anything else tier 4 would probably benefit your soloability more to move those points to Shintao for iron skin. I'm assuming you have 12 pally but I may be wrong? If 12 pally then you would only get 2 points from KotC if you have 4 spent t4 by doing this, so the only place I could really see pulling points from is racial tree. What do you have in the racial tree? You said you want 16, you mentioned that you have Oath of the Wild for 10 prr but I'm not sure where points 12 and 13 might be atm. I was assuming you were using a greatsword, but now I'm guessing a falchion?

[Tsutti]

Does Sheltering Stack with Physical Sheltering?

sadly no, but "Sheltering" gives both prr and mrr so this idea is meant to cover mrr

[Tsutti]

How's your dodge/concealment? I know it gets cut down in reaper but if you're doing low reapers it can still be pretty helpful.

I don't know about his concealment but in the OP I think he said 33% dodge, so doing pretty well there at least.

[Matsu_Ieyasu]

Huh what's the harper for?

The Henshin is nice but if points can be moved for iron skin it might be worth it.

What T4 stuff KotC do you have? Personally I think that with how thinspread your points will end up the only T4 thing particularly worth taking would be the 30 hamp, if you're taking anything else tier 4 would probably benefit your soloability more to move those points to Shintao for iron skin. I'm assuming you have 12 pally but I may be wrong? If 12 pally then you would only get 2 points from KotC if you have 4 spent t4 by doing this, so the only place I could really see pulling points from is racial tree. What do you have in the racial tree? You said you want 16, you mentioned that you have Oath of the Wild for 10 prr but I'm not sure where points 12 and 13 might be atm. I was assuming you were using a greatsword, but now I'm guessing a falchion?

My layout has 2 extra points in KotC and 3 in Harper. Add in Hesin Mystic and that is 6 of the 8 points needed for Iron Skin, and 4 of those are a complete waste on this build.

Harper It seemed to be the best I could do with the final 3 points with 1 universal action point.

I have Hamp in t4, and Strength at the moment of KotC.


Wood Elf
Race Core 1-2-1-2
T1 Elven Weapon Training
T2 Elven Weapon Training
T3 Oath of the Wild - Elven Weapon Training
13 Points Currently

If I drop T3 Elven Weapon Training I move those eight points into Shinto to get Iron Skin

[Seph1roth5]

Ah yeah 33 dodge is really good, but can still have 25% concealment and 10% ghostly pretty easily at that level.

[Tsutti]

My layout has 2 extra points in KotC and 3 in Harper. Add in Hesin Mystic and that is 6 of the 8 points needed for Iron Skin, and 4 of those are a complete waste on this build.

Harper It seemed to be the best I could do with the final 3 points with 1 universal action point.

I have Hamp in t4, and Strength at the moment of KotC.


Wood Elf
Race Core 1-2-1-2
T1 Elven Weapon Training
T2 Elven Weapon Training
T3 Oath of the Wild - Elven Weapon Training
13 Points Currently

If I drop T3 Elven Weapon Training I move those eight points into Shinto to get Iron Skin

I think that moving the T3 Elven Weapon Training to Iron Skin might be worth it, it's a small dps loss for a pretty reasonable defense gain and you do more damage alive than dead. If you find that you are having absolutely no issues anymore with it then try changing back all the points for some extra dps and see if you are still tanky enough for your needs without that 20 prr, but I'd air on the safe side first.

[Tilomere]

Maybe this helps.

[KoobTheProud]

Viability is measured against your peer builds. By that measure you have to get close to where your average peer in a group/raid is to be viable.

My experience with a Palimonk is that DPS and survivability are a trade off that is hard to reconcile. My DPS builds always have had trouble going toe-to-toe with a melee champ or carnage reaper and my survival builds put out much less than optimum DPS and so get worn down by packs.

I'm absolutely certain that as a hyper completionist these issues would lessen or vanish but that it not the case for me. So Warlock and Wizard are the 'melees' that thread the needle.

[Matsu_Ieyasu]

Maybe this helps.

Why would what's posted there help? I scanned it, but as a Elf Palidin/Fighter/Monk a Warforged Undead Eldritch Knight doesn't equate considering how much more effort/time you have been able to put in. I have a build that is fun for me to play, that I don't have the time nor the desire to do dozens of racial/past lives with, but I would like to step it up a small notch with this build. It feels so close to crossing the boundary between dying as a piker and able to complete content on R1 not as a piker. That is why I posted the topic.

[Tilomere]

Why would what's posted there help? I scanned it, but as a Elf Palidin/Fighter/Monk a Warforged Undead Eldritch Knight doesn't equate considering how much more effort/time you have been able to put in. I have a build that is fun for me to play, that I don't have the time nor the desire to do dozens of racial/past lives with, but I would like to step it up a small notch with this build. It feels so close to crossing the boundary between dying as a piker and able to complete content on R1 not as a piker. That is why I posted the topic.

In order to solo as a melee on higher difficulties, they both need the same setup to avoid being attacked over concealment and incorporeal and AC defenses, the same self-healing EHP/sec by reaper difficulty, use most of the same combat tricks, as well as many of the same melee gear items. You will have to adapt some of it, but melee is melee.

The game doesn't care if you are on an Elf Palidin/Fighter/Monk or a Warforged Undead Eldritch Knight, it just knows that at a given reaper difficulty that it needs to spawn a red named or group that deals X EHP/sec in damage, so you need to be able to handle it.