Level Cap Increase Postponed

[Silverleafeon]

The video did mention encore Hardcore Seasons as a possibility, and if so, I would like another attempt at gaining the bloody footprints someday (or another color variation).

[DerpDerply]

None of those are going to matter unless SSG can fix the massive Otto's Box duping problem that lets people pick up a dozen Past Lives in an afternoon.

I wish they’d make those things BtA since that would kill virtually all the duping for profit shenanigans. Sure, people could still dupe for themselves, but eliminating the profit incentive should significantly cut back on the problem.

[KoobTheProud]

The elephant in the room is that with all the other ways to progress your character increasing the level cap seems like a red herring in that regard.

Does anybody really think that going from 30 to 32 is going to represent progression for your character, particularly when you're still going to have to re-level over and over again for many of the other types of progression present in the game already?

For me 30 to 32 is just pure grind and nothing else and I'm not planning to play DDO again if that is what the devs put in front of us as 'progression'. I still have too much to do in other grinds to be willing to go through this loop even once.

[dunklezhan]

For me 30 to 32 is just pure grind and nothing else and I'm not planning to play DDO again if that is what the devs put in front of us as 'progression'. I still have too much to do in other grinds to be willing to go through this loop even once.

I'm genuinely a bit concerned that the 10 levels of my least favourite kind of levelling between reincarnations could get longer, I can tell you that.

[Yokido]

Please keep postponing it I don't want a level cap increase. :/

[Silverleafeon]

I wish they’d make those things BtA since that would kill virtually all the duping for profit shenanigans. Sure, people could still dupe for themselves, but eliminating the profit incentive should significantly cut back on the problem.

In the past I have been a big fan of the Otto's Boxes, but honestly with the advent of Reaper Trees, being attacked in game for reporting duplication, and websites selling exploits, I would vote for the elimination of future Otto's Boxes.


And btw, if you duplicate Otto's, please block me here and in game - thanks.

[Silverleafeon]

The elephant in the room is that with all the other ways to progress your character increasing the level cap seems like a red herring in that regard.

Does anybody really think that going from 30 to 32 is going to represent progression for your character, particularly when you're still going to have to re-level over and over again for many of the other types of progression present in the game already?

For me 30 to 32 is just pure grind and nothing else and I'm not planning to play DDO again if that is what the devs put in front of us as 'progression'. I still have too much to do in other grinds to be willing to go through this loop even once.

I'm genuinely a bit concerned that the 10 levels of my least favourite kind of levelling between reincarnations could get longer, I can tell you that.

+1s




A couple things the Devs are going to need to do to make the level cap increase more inviting:

1) Make very clear that Iconic Reincarnations will always be at level 30.

2) Make very clear that Epic Reincarnations will always be at level 30.

3) Make a reduction in Overall Epic Xp required to get from 20 to 30 by some small number like 5% (this is typical of other games shortening the grind while increasing the top accomplishments).

4) Make clear that a level 20 toon will not receive an xp penalty while gaming with their level cap friends.

5) Not add more reincarnation.

6) Wait till next expansion to increase level cap.

7) Increase the level cap in small increments.

8) Create new systems to encourage grouping into definite categories such as heroic reincarnation, epic reincarnation, and raiding at level cap.

9) Reduce the penalty for heroic toons joining groups that are higher level by 1 more level.

[Silverleafeon]

There is already an obvious gap in potential toon power, so the existing barriers for a lower level toon joining a higher level toon in heroics have become outdated.
Changing thus by 1 level would increase heroic grouping.

[Silverleafeon]

I am quite serious about the reduction in epic xp (and increased grouping incentives).
You want something big, compromise.

[Silverleafeon]

I wonder if there is a saying for game developers like:
"Good progressive involves compression?"


Historically, increase in level cap has involved (maybe not always at the same time) a compression of xp required.

Before Epic levels existed, the heroic level cap was somewhere near 4.1 million, not the current 3.8 million.
This is actually bigger than a 5% reduction (closer to 9%).
The xp curve was adjusted at the same time.

Increasing the level cap from 28 to 30 included a reduction of the projected xp curve, again along with an adjustment of the xp curve.
This theoretical adjustment was well above 5% as well (closer to 12% reduction).

[Silverleafeon]

When one is discussing Level Cap & Reincarnation, the topic comes up occasionally about revisiting Past Life wording and power.

Rewording Past Lives to grant more power thru any method is a mistake, because that increases the gap between new/alt toons and completionist toons.
This gap is large already and will naturally increase via new Racial Past Lives.

Rewording Past Lives to grant less power thru any method is also a mistake, because players have spent countless hours gaining such power after judging for themselves if such a goal is worthwhile.
Changing a carrot later on, would leave hard feelings.


Likewise, the current Reaper tree is a very long term goal of similar nature to Past Lives and should be left alone (not increased, decreased, or added to).
The Reaper Vendors however are cosmetic in nature, and the addition of a Mount Reaper Vendor is appropriate and recommended.

Anything bragging rights has zero impact on the balance between new/alt toons and completionist toons and should always be explored/contemplated when artists have extra time.


However, adjustment of dungeons/difficulties/heroic trees/epic trees are different than long term past lives and is an appropriate way to make balance changes and deal with future game goals.



Occasionally, the subject comes up about making dungeons more random.
The introduction of champions and reapers certainly has moved dungeons a long way towards these goals without totally destroying the structure therein.

Sev mentioned nonintelligent summoning as a possible Player option, which I certainly think is worth exploring.
It might even be a good way to explore new Classes via a Player class feature.
They don't have to be swarms, they could be representations of a single being, such as a scout/ranger companion or knight's squire.
Perhaps they have hit points and auto attack anything within 10 meters?
They might randomly move a few feet every couple of seconds and expire in 2 minutes time?

This would also be a possible random "trap" option to make dungeons less predictable?

I believe 4th Ed. D&D had such summoning a single being blocking certain hex(s) character option?
Was it a Fey pact, Spell, or something else out of the core books?

[MistaMagic]

In the past I have been a big fan of the Otto's Boxes, but honestly with the advent of Reaper Trees, being attacked in game for reporting duplication, and websites selling exploits, I would vote for the elimination of future Otto's Boxes.


And btw, if you duplicate Otto's, please block me here and in game - thanks.

I am at a loss to understand what Otto's Boxes and Reaper Trees have in common as the stone does NOT give reaper Xp. Now regarding being attacked in Game do you not think that if you had just stuck to reporting as you say instead of letting people know what you were doing it would not have happened. If you want to make yourself a target then that is your choice but once again that has nothing to do with Otto's Boxes

[Silverleafeon]

I am at a loss to understand what Otto's Boxes and Reaper Trees have in common as the stone does NOT give reaper Xp.

Exactly my point, Otto's does not grant reaper xp, therefore the value of Otto's went down while the value of xp pots went up.

[Silverleafeon]

Gaining all your racial past lives without Otto's Boxes should place your toon at reaper wings (75), or close therein (even using low/zero xp potions) if you do "once and done r1".

[Silverleafeon]

The long debate on whether Otto's will return is over:

DDO Store:


Now thru November 30th:


Double Bonus Points Plus!
Get Double Bonus Points and a bonus Lesser or Greater Elixir of Discovery per points purchase!*

Otto’s and Tenser's Boxes now available in the store!




Since I have used Otto's in the past, I probably should wish others well for future use...



It is also interesting the the older expansions are half off in the market till Jan 9th at which point they will be "repackaged".



Anyway, Happy Black Friday everyone!

[Silverleafeon]

I likely my perspective on the Otto's is a bit one sided.

A toon that only needs the Feywild PLs is in a totally different place than a newly transferred HCL toon on an alt account.

Some of us took advantage of the free packs and created a new account, and many computers are able to handle dual boxing.
(One ought to be up front obvious as a leader dual boxing and get permission first when joining a group as a dual box.)


With rumors that the Season Pass will not be renewed, I looked around for other ways to support the game, and ended up picking up a few Otto's from Black Friday.

Although a stack of 50% xp pots might have been another choice, I find these too stressful and only use thus if I am opening an Otto's Box.
It gives one an urgency to maximize time spent that takes away some of the joy of playing games.



Just a side note, I ran into a warning months ago that "internet advertising was cheaper than normal and one should aware of people selling accounts or doing things on your account are likely just going to take your money and run or worse."

[Carpone]

Please keep postponing it I don't want a level cap increase. :/

If the devs subscribed to this attitude, DDO would never have evolved past level 6/10/14/16/20/25/28.

We have three legendary expansions already, and Feywild is a side-grade for equipment. We certainly don't need a fourth expansion with even more side-grade options. The game is ready for a new horizon. It's actually quite amazing that DDO has been able to slow the level ramping as much as it has, compared to other online games.

[kanordog]

If the devs subscribed to this attitude, DDO would never have evolved past level 6/10/14/16/20/25/28.

We have three legendary expansions already, and Feywild is a side-grade for equipment. We certainly don't need a fourth expansion with even more side-grade options. The game is ready for a new horizon. It's actually quite amazing that DDO has been able to slow the level ramping as much as it has, compared to other online games.

It had to as it took years to get enough content for endgame.

[kanordog]

For me 30 to 32 is just pure grind and nothing else and I'm not planning to play DDO again if that is what the devs put in front of us as 'progression'. I still have too much to do in other grinds to be willing to go through this loop even once.

Yes, it is just an other 2.25 million XP to grind for with all the good dailies ruined in the name of grouping.

[Carpone]

Yes, it is just an other 2.25 million XP to grind for with all the good dailies ruined in the name of grouping.

There is enough content in the game to get to level 29 without touching a single legendary quest. There's enough legendary XP in the game to get to level 35 just by doing first-time bonuses if the level XP follows the same linear progression. That's not even considering the new content that's released as part of the level cap increase, or factoring in slayer XP.