Make Sorcerer Teir Fives use Cha for DC instead of Con

[Somebody87]

This idea won't solve many of your problems but it will be positively received by the player base and is relatively easy to implement.

Just swap the con check for a cha check for the sorcerer teir five abilities in the air, water, and earth savant trees. Also make it use evocation/conjuration bonuses rather than sorcerer level.

I don't know if these abilities scale with spell power or with critical chance but the important part is their DCs.

These abilities are not super strong even when they do land because they are single target and have minimal impact on bosses.


Even the fire ability wouldn't be overpowered because a fort save reduces the damage by 100% not 50% so sharn bosses would be practically immune to it.

[Smokewolf]

Heat-Death (HD) 50 sp for 2000 single target, damage-over-time, with a fairly high chance of it being saved against. IMO, it would be better to drop the save check considering the enhancements high sp cost and long cool-down. Either that or have it become an AoE ability to offset the cost / cool-down / saves.

My question is does HD scale with spell power and does this have to also overcome the targets SR? I ask because i cant say that I’ve ever seen HD used with any frequency, which IMO would indicate that this needs some rethinking. (As suggested by the OP)

Edit: Looks like spell power has no effect on the scaling of this a ability.

[janave]

Heat-Death (HD) 50 sp for 2000 single target, damage-over-time, with a fairly high chance of it being saved against. IMO, it would be better to drop the save check considering the enhancements high sp cost and long cool-down. Either that or have it become an AoE ability to offset the cost / cool-down / saves.

My question is does HD scale with spell power and does this have to also overcome the targets SR? I ask because i cant say that I’ve ever seen HD used with any frequency, which IMO would indicate that this needs some rethinking. (As suggested by the OP)

Edit: Looks like spell power has no effect on the scaling of this a ability.

It is not a damage over time, but a single hit for a static (does not scale with spell power) 2000 damage against fort save or 0 damage. Like other damage spells it has no SR check. None of the meta-magics work on it.


40 damage per spell point
roundup 34 damage per second

The other T5 debuff for +15% works , so that is 2300 damage.


At the same level, emp+max Necrotic Ray (fort save) crits beats it easily on living targets, for same spell points every 4 seconds vs 60 . Most other spells also beat it now for time/spell points cost/save chance, even with the old spell dice, due to spellpower and crits available in heroics.


It was a strong heroic ability in the era of best in slot +60 potency items. These days we can reach 500 boosted (elemental and negative) spell power by mid heroics.

By level 15 a single necrotic ray can crit for over 2300 damage at full DCs. A few levels later polar ray beats it too.


To say one good thing about it, it has no line of sight (target is blocked check), so technically can target ranged mobs that dont follow, hide around the corner and still hit them.

You raise the internal temperature of a living target to lethal levels. The target must succeed on a Fortitude save (DC: 10 + Constitution Modifier + Sorcerer Level) or take 2,000 points of fire damage as its blood (or other internal fluid) boils in a horrific manner. Fire creatures are immune to this effect. (Activation Cost: 50 Spell Points. Cooldown: 1 minute.)

[droid327]

Not earth...that's a tree that's useful for non cha ek sorcs, who would rather have it con based

[janave]

Not earth...that's a tree that's useful for non cha ek sorcs, who would rather have it con based

It is the Tier 5 ability of a primary Caster tree based off of charisma. If anything allow Con as a fallback, better allow EK to convert the DC ( tho, EK itself is not specific about buffing things for Con .. ).


EK Sorcerer is bad enough, i can imagine how bad it was if trading T5 EK for a crappy 15s Earthgrab SLA.


pretty much what makes EK and EK :O

[Elfishski]

EK Sorcerer is bad enough, i can imagine how bad it was if trading T5 EK for a crappy 15s Earthgrab SLA.

1. Totally agree no melee EK would/should under any circumstances trade T5 EK for earthgrab!
2. My experience with earthgrab is that it probably has a broken DC anyway, or targets e.g. a dexterity/strength check instead of a reflex save like it says - and that means that it works nearly all the time without any special investment in CON. On the scale of meta-sorcs who AOE one-shot rooms the moment they enter then yeah, it's a worthless SLA. If you've made a weak sorc without any decent gear (or played it before all the spellpower stuff got updated), it's a solid 15s duration, 15s cooldown CC that indefinitely locks up any single non-red-named enemy with a fun animation.

I'd support improving the other T5s to be more satisfying by scaling better with DC and level (e.g. heat death fixed 2000 HPs is pointless by epics) but making some tweaks like scaling back the spellpower scaling for energy burst, increasing cooldown a little on meteor swarm (fire sorc... so tedious), and/or some other balances, as sorcs sure don't need an overall boost in power.

[janave]

I'd support improving the other T5s to be more satisfying by scaling better with DC and level (e.g. heat death fixed 2000 HPs is pointless by epics) but making some tweaks like scaling back the spellpower scaling for energy burst, increasing cooldown a little on meteor swarm (fire sorc... so tedious), and/or some other balances, as sorcs sure don't need an overall boost in power.

Agree Fire Sorcerers do not need buffs. Other elements were far behind (endgame, not leveling) and are relatively even more so since the savant core nerfs.

Heath Death is about pointless as soon as we can train it, cannot be cast on many things we would want it to ( undead, constructs, some ooze types, fire immune*). The cooldown and the save for nothing makes it absolutely inferior to spellbook/sla stuff. Once we reach level 15ish, take up a sharn staff with AA2, can cast Necrotic Ray for minimum of 13*17 = 221 damage or 263.5 avg. Unless cannot ray target something. Necrotic Ray scales to ML25, can reach 3k+ crits in mid heroics with sharn items and guarantees a neg level (more hps drop, -saves).

So, HD for level 12 it is great for targeting low fort high reflex stuff with a crippled DC, then 6 levels later a T5 special ability becomes entirely pointless to train as new spells open up.

Icy Prison: You deal 500 cold damage to your opponent, with a Fortitude save (DC: 10 + Constitution Modifier + Sorcerer Level) for half damage, and an additional Reflex save or be encased in ice. Ice creatures are immune to this effect, and the targets gets occasional saves to attempt to escape. (Activation Cost: 25 Spell Points. Cooldown: 1 minute.)

The damage here, [250 - 500] is about pointless versus simply casting another SLA at 400-500 spell power and 225 from metas. The freezing portion was cool before Warchanters and gear.

This should either be upgraded to a cone shape target zone, or given a long escape roll interval (longer than most CC spells).



It would not be such a big deal of 1 out of 5 options in the T5 is not great, but honestly this leaves most savants with 1 good option == the % debuff for bosses.

[timmy9999]

I play sorcs often don't bother taking it. Totally useless imo

[Dark_Lord_Mary]

I agree - I would go so far as to say all of the tier 5 sorcerer abilities are completely useless or worthless and should be revamped to useful things similar to what they did for EK and PM

[janave]

I agree - I would go so far as to say all of the tier 5 sorcerer abilities are completely useless or worthless and should be revamped to useful things similar to what they did for EK and PM

Mostly yes, few things are useful in some situations:
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The Awaken Weakness debuff is good, scales into endgame, can help some raids, altho it could be cast (animation) a little faster and maybe without spell points, would be a decent and modern update. The numbers are a bit conservative post LGS, but still worth applying. 20% would not be a large stretch.


Air Savant (abundant step / leap) is really good.


The rest:
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The second element spell power is tiny and uninteresting by 2020 standards ( these are from the gear potency +60 era ). Could be merged with the +1 DC granting all of the proxy elements and force.

T5s specials could be rewritten to have them CHA DC to apply, but CON to set bonus duration/save interval.

T5 SLA is a tough one, some still find a way to use them for leveling. Ideally it would be a multi selector, current SLA or something else.