Xp late penalty

[bigdmag]

Please get rid of the late XP penalties. I dont think anyone cares if someone jumps in late and gets full xp for it and it prevents people from joining groups that have been in quests a long time. Many times Ive avoided helping someone thats been in a quest a long time because I have an xp pot going and dont want to ruin my 1st time xp bonus by taking an 80% xp hit. The longer they are in a quest the less likely someone is going to jump in and help them.

[Drwaz99]

Yup. This is just as archaic as the XP penalty on death was.

[Veltamore]

Please get rid of the late XP penalties. I dont think anyone cares if someone jumps in late and gets full xp for it and it prevents people from joining groups that have been in quests a long time. Many times Ive avoided helping someone thats been in a quest a long time because I have an xp pot going and dont want to ruin my 1st time xp bonus by taking an 80% xp hit. The longer they are in a quest the less likely someone is going to jump in and help them.

Yes I agree the other day I joined someone in a quest and it was only 8 minutes in when I had entered the quest and got the 80% penalty. With the speed and way quests are ran these days I think they should look at removing the penalty.

[Gniewomir]

No.

Whats the point of grouping if you can run quests with lvl 30 alt, zerg through lvl 26+ (streak friendly) content with 0 challange, then relog back to lvl 20 character and get full xp for quests you wouldnt stand a chance to finish on fair terms?

[Zeleron]

Unpopular opinion: Don't wait to join the lfm.

[bigdmag]

No.

Whats the point of grouping if you can run quests with lvl 30 alt, zerg through lvl 26+ (streak friendly) content with 0 challange, then relog back to lvl 20 character and get full xp for quests you wouldnt stand a chance to finish on fair terms?

Huh?

[bigdmag]

Unpopular opinion: Don't wait to join the lfm.

Who said anything about waiting to join? If Im talking about logging into a toon and opening the LFM and seeing a WGU group on R1 up thats been open for 26 minutes. With the 80% late penalty, Im not joining. If we didnt have late penalties, Id join. Or finishing up with a group and opening the LFM to look for another and seeing multiple groups in quests for 15-20 minutes. Cant join those because I dont want to take the huge xp hit. The late penalty needs to go. It doesnt hurt anything to give full xp to party members that are late to the party.

[Enoach]

I disagree with the OPs statement that "no one cares" if someone gets full credit, it seems at this point SSG does.

I think what Gniewomir is trying to point out is "How could this be abused?"

Keep in mind that an XP potion only counts down while you are in an Instance (Quest/Explorer) and not while you are in a public instance.

There are several really good XP quests where one could wait in a public area and step in just before completion. We have all heard stories of people who can "solo" instances really fast, so we know it can be done.

For players that multi-box, they could even enter the quest, logout and login just before completion.

So the system could be abused and it wouldn't take much to do so, as this would extend the life of XP potions significantly. I could see this as a reason why SSG might not want to change this.

[GeoffWatson]

It's still great XP for the time, so you should join late anyway.
You still get the first time bonuses.
Due to the odd way the XP penalty is calculated, unless you have enough other penalties like being over-level that push the XP penalties to 100%, late joining is great.

You don't get 20% of the XP you would have for a listed 80% penalty, instead the bonuses are reduced by 80 - since these often add up to hundreds you'd still get 50%-75% of the XP.

[Matuse]

Huh?

Without the late penalty, you could blitz through a high level quest and bring in a low level character to collect all the XP. You'd just need someone else to hold the instance open. It would be of fairly limited utility.

[PsychoBlonde]

I disagree with the OPs statement that "no one cares" if someone gets full credit, it seems at this point SSG does.

I think what Gniewomir is trying to point out is "How could this be abused?"

Keep in mind that an XP potion only counts down while you are in an Instance (Quest/Explorer) and not while you are in a public instance.

There are several really good XP quests where one could wait in a public area and step in just before completion. We have all heard stories of people who can "solo" instances really fast, so we know it can be done.

For players that multi-box, they could even enter the quest, logout and login just before completion.

So the system could be abused and it wouldn't take much to do so, as this would extend the life of XP potions significantly. I could see this as a reason why SSG might not want to change this.

As someone who actually dualboxes and knows several more people who do . . . this kind of exploiting is actually WAY more annoyance and trouble than it is worth.

There's so much XP in the game these days that concerns about late entries are really outdated--and there's no guarantee that people who made it to the quest early are doing anything but sitting there afk, anyway.

The dumb ones who can't do math are the ones who won't join an IP quest because they're afraid they'll get an XP penalty. Due to the way the math works in this game you'll still get over half the XP you would have gotten, anyway, and for, what, 1/10th the time or less? How is that not still WILDLY to your ADVANTAGE? The fastest way to level is to NEVER join a quest until it's almost completed, hop in, grab the XP, leave the group. The xp vs. time is WAY better than doing every quest beginning to end. The "penalty" is there because it trips up the lazy but math-illiterate into thinking that they're "better off" not getting the penalty.

[janave]

The problem about late entry is the usual super naive implementation, where the only variable is time. If someone gets kills, breakables, traps, reaching a checkpoint or otherwise contributes during a game objective the late entry penalty should be progressively removed.

TLDR; Contribution should allow clearing the penalty, how much contribution should be? usually whatever a dev would set * multiplied in favor of players :P.


Otherwise, anyway
/signed

[SirValentine]

It's still great XP for the time, so you should join late anyway.
You still get the first time bonuses.
Due to the odd way the XP penalty is calculated, unless you have enough other penalties like being over-level that push the XP penalties to 100%, late joining is great.

I get the feeling the people complaining about it don't really understand it. "Man, I really hate getting 75% of the total XP in 5 minutes when I could have got 100% of the XP in 30 minutes!"

Getting a late penalty is usually much better XP/minute than you'd get for being in the whole quest. If you think you're losing 80% of the XP, you need to do some research before whining.

[Captain_Wizbang]

Not signed.

I am one of the few that want the old xp/death penalty brought back.

[HungarianRhapsody]

Not signed.

I am one of the few that want the old xp/death penalty brought back.

There's a new server with an XP death penalty. If you die, you lose 100% of your XP.

[ValariusK]

I get the feeling the people complaining about it don't really understand it. "Man, I really hate getting 75% of the total XP in 5 minutes when I could have got 100% of the XP in 30 minutes!"

Getting a late penalty is usually much better XP/minute than you'd get for being in the whole quest. If you think you're losing 80% of the XP, you need to do some research before whining.

Yes, late penalty is usually only a big deal when you've already done the quest before. When you have first time, bravery etc bonuses going, its not a huge fraction of the total xp.
Where SSG probably should look to adjusting it is the use case where the late joiner is bailing out a group that can't handle the quest. I suggest also looking at mitigating the powerlevel penalty if any of these conditions apply:

The latecomer (or lower levelled) player slays more than their share OR,
The latecomer removes enough traps to give an xp bonus solely on their personal contribution OR
some index of how much stuff healed or crowd controlled or resurrected

The point being, if the person makes a contribution greater than their membership fraction in their group, they deserve to have their penalty mitigated in whole or in part.

[Gniewomir]

I think what Gniewomir is trying to point out is "How could this be abused?"

To be honest i described what i'm already doing. With free content and quests coupon i created 2nd account to hold stance. When there's noone to play with at lower epics, and in my time zone it means almost all the time, i park my lvl 20 main at quests that require talking/picking something up. etc to finish (so i dont have to worry about killing boss etc.), then i relog to my lvl 30 sorc and run those quests, raise alt acc at final chest, relog back to my main and finish the quest with 2nd acc parked at final chest.

Now, just for example:

sharn welcome, 5 min, 100k xp , requirement to finish: talking with npc
red rain, 8 min, 100k xp, requirement to finish: talking with npc
best laid plans, 10 min, 100k+ xp , requirement to finish: talking with npc
same old song, 10 min,100k+, requirement to finish: talking with npc
just busines, 15 min, 100k? (i dont remember tbh), requirement to finish: talking with npc
no refunds, 10 min, 100k+, requirement to finish: picking up book
house of pain, 10 min, 100k+, requirement to finish: talking with npc
blown deadline, 6 min, 100k+, requirement to finish: killing boss (i nuke hime to 5%, finishing him is not a problem)
reach the sky, 10 min, 200k+ requirement to finish: see above
saga 300k

probably around 1.4mln xp with streak and saga, 2.1 mln with 50% xp potion (sadly im not rich enough to run all the time on xp pots :P), time wasted on potion: 5-10 min top. including relogs: around 90 min to finish saga. If someone believe it's annoyance and trouble not worth effort then i wonder how much xp he can grind in 90 min with lvl 20 character.

And there's a lot of other quests that are pretty easy and fast. WPM 15 min 150+k xp, finding dorris 10 min 200k, b&b newcomers both 150-200k 15 min, search&rescue, 10 min 150k, mines of teth quests (average 10 min per quests, some are shorter, some are longer) 100k xp, archons, average 100k xp/10min x3, gambit 100k xp/6-8 min x3.

Now, i do believe behaviour like mine is hurting the grouping in game, sadly i can post low epics and wait hours for party and tbh i'm a bit too lazy to struggle through solo r+ runs with lvl 20 toon. So i'm doing what i described above. Most of the time im quick enough to not have any late penalty after relog and late penalty is the only reason why i'm not running longer stuff like toee or slavers. And even with late penalty sometimes i dont care about it, sometimes i just wait and do some chores while waiting, so it's ok too. Will removing late penalty make my life easier? Definitely yes. Do i want it? Definitely no. Honestly i do believe soloing, multiboxing etc. is the kind of plague SSG should fight. I love free months and packs coupon, i hope it'll bring new players and finally i'll have some players to play with, but on the other hand seeing more players who avoid any interaction with other players and prefer to run with 6 accounts or 5 hires... Well, i dont get why such players are playing d&d and multiplayer games.

Edit: honestly i wonder why i didnt made lvl 30 sorc on alt account so i dont have to bother with relogging, but i already had one on main one and i was too lazy to lvl up and gear up one more on 2nd account.:P

[HungarianRhapsody]

When we need 3.8 million XP per life and there are more than 150 past life feats to earn, I don't think we need to worry about people "exploiting" quests for XP.

Go ahead and remove the late penalty. Anything that encourages people to join a quest with other people is a good thing in my book.

[Gniewomir]

Anything that encourages people to join a quest with other people is a good thing in my book.

It could also make the opposite - encourage players to wait for last call before joining longer quests, so more players pike at entrance and wait until it's 5/10/15 min ip (depends how long the quest is). I agree anything that encourage players to play together it's a good thing, i just dont belive change like that will achieve this goal.

[Sunnie]

Yup. This is just as archaic as the XP penalty on death was.

That's actually something I'd like to see brought back. Maybe next hardcore instead of having to restart with a new character when dying. You can do any level quest at 1. Once you're level 2 you can't do level 1 quests anymore, once you take 3 you can no longer do level 1 and 2 quests, and so on. Base level of the quests of course, if you want the full favour you have to run those level 1 quests on elite at level 1. Then as in Pen&Paper if you die you lose a level.