Redo Incomprehensible Maps

[Gobel]

Some quests have such incomprehensible maps, it can even be difficult to navigate despite having experience with the quest. Sometimes players can't find each other or get lost, despite having uncovered areas of the dungeon. For example, the map for Madstone Crater is, well, maddening.

[PsychoBlonde]

Considering that I've seen directionally-challenged players get lost in quests they've done dozens of times with perfectly comprehensible maps, I'm not sure this would accomplish much--and it'd take a lot of work, since representing 3D spaces with irregular interruptions (loading screens) on a single 2d pane is quite difficult. The only way to solve it for zones like Madstone Crater would be to 1.) hand-draw a representational map that *doesn't actually correspond to the physical geometry of the quest overview area*, 2.) hand-build an individual methodology for just that quest as to how it displays player locations on the map, and then 3.) come up with a very lengthy and complex formula for transposing the actual /loc data of character position to a position on the map.

Doing individualized hard-coded data setups like this in a game is a NIGHTMARE and would mean that any changes to the base mapping setup would inevitably break EVERY. SINGLE. INDIVIDUALIZED. MAP. in the game, all of which would have to be maintained on an individual level.

In short, this kind of thing is a disaster and much, much worse from a development standpoint than the occasional not-terribly-informative map. This kind of single-solution approach is what has caused a lot of the development struggles with this game in the first place.

[HungarianRhapsody]

/signed except for The Pit.

[FlimsyFirewood]

Please post here any other maps besides the aforementioned that give you the same sort of trouble.

No promises, but if it can be done, it might get done in the next round of bug fixing. We've done this sort of thing before for some of the quests.

[Targal]

Please post here any other maps besides the aforementioned that give you the same sort of trouble.

No promises, but if it can be done, it might get done in the next round of bug fixing. We've done this sort of thing before for some of the quests.

Hope you can fix "small size maps" and people post about them.

And, Yes, Sunrise(Abbey of Saint Markovia) map is small resized as well as incomprehensible. and I hardly noticed that it is a part of Barovia field.

[Frogger1234]

/signed except for The Pit.

Tempest Spine?

[cardplay]

Caverns of Koramar is another one that the maps are not useful. Need to get to a shrine you already found?...shrines are not even seen on the maps!

[TitusOvid]

Chains of Flames
New Invasion
Practically any quest that got more stories/levels, earlier than Ravenloft.
Restless Isles

EDIT: Shadow Guard (underwater necro II)


Cheers,
Titus.

[Therrias]

Restless Isles.

Restless Isles is the worst offender by far.

[Captain_Wizbang]

Steel Star, thanks for responding.

We had this discussion a long time ago. Not sure why it was never addressed.

IIRC we were told the areas couldn't be mapped because of Eberron's cartographers kept disappearing.

I assume that was part of lore we rarely paid attention to.

[Pofro]

Please post here any other maps besides the aforementioned that give you the same sort of trouble.

No promises, but if it can be done, it might get done in the next round of bug fixing. We've done this sort of thing before for some of the quests.

The Coalescence Chamber

[S3R3N1T7]

RSO map refond can help people like more this raid or understand where they need go

[Alrik_Fassbauer]

Tempest Spine
Oath Of Vengeance

[Malleable]

/signed except for The Pit.

Uh no!! This is a quest I never run except to pike because, sorry, the map makes no sense to me. I prefer literal things. Google maps is my friend!!

So please feel free to update The Pit for idiots like myself!

[ChicagoChris]

Please post here any other maps besides the aforementioned that give you the same sort of trouble.

No promises, but if it can be done, it might get done in the next round of bug fixing. We've done this sort of thing before for some of the quests.

Lords of Dust.

Really any map that is multi-leveled.

[Nuvem]

Please post here any other maps besides the aforementioned that give you the same sort of trouble.

No promises, but if it can be done, it might get done in the next round of bug fixing. We've done this sort of thing before for some of the quests.

I've noticed that clicking on the 'zoom out' button on the map whenever I'm in Barovia gets it to do... strange things. It kinda twists around and keeps shaking diagonally. Happens when you open up the minimap and then press the zoom out button again, as if going to see the world map. kinda tangent, but relevant.

[JoyfulEagle]

I don't run the Pit or Coalescence Chamber unless I have a guide person that knows their way. Even so, if I get separated (which happens nearly every time) due to slow movement for fear of falling, or actual falling, I usually end up piking the rest of the quest. In the case of Coalescence Chamber, I frequently need assistance just to get to the end chest. It is a maddening enough quest with all the stumbling spots that require a "hop" rather than a jump, because jumping bumps me out into open space. The map doesn't really need to be part of the challenge too.

Chain of Flames is a bad one too, but I don't run it every life because it takes so long to get to, and then takes so long to run it. ADQ2 isn't worth the trouble. When I do run it, the wiki helps a lot.

One other place that is quite a mapping problem is the Demonweb wilderness. I know it is supposed to be challenging, but I have lost members of my group in there many times (by "lost" I mean someone gives up, recalls, and leaves the group). I think that one might require a different solution - adding a few more permanent bridges that can be seen on the map.

Not sure I understand ChicagoChris's reference to LoD. That one is very linear. It is hard to get lost there, even without any map. But, maybe he meant the others in that chain. Servants of the Overlord is pretty bad in parts.

[PsychoBlonde]

Restless Isles is the worst offender by far.

The map in Slavers of the Shrieking Mines is non-useful as well.

If they can do what they did in Amber Temple for some of the old multi-story maps, that'd definitely be an improvement. Poor map quests:

Redfang the Unruled
Gwylan's Stand (could use maps of the interior areas)
The Scoundrel's Run
The Pit
Caverns of Korromar
Spies in the House
The Shadow Crypt (although not knowing where you are is kinda the point in that one)
Threnal Eastern Excavation
Into the Deep
Reclamation
Restless Isles Wilderness
Slavers of the Shrieking Mines
The Chamber of Raiyum (to an extent)
Chains of Flame
Trial by Fire
The Maze of Madness
The Prison of the Planes (just indicating which level you were on)
Madstone Crater
Inferno of the Damned (indicating sides)
Servants of the Overlord
Beyond the Rift
Reach for the Sky
Roll Call
Coalescense Chamber
Ritual Sacrifice
Subterrene Wilderness
Bastion of Power
A New Invasion
The Underdark wilderness
The Demonweb wilderness
Trial by Fury

[Greantun]

The map in Slavers of the Shrieking Mines is non-useful as well.

If they can do what they did in Amber Temple for some of the old multi-story maps, that'd definitely be an improvement. Poor map quests:

Redfang the Unruled
Gwylan's Stand (could use maps of the interior areas)
The Scoundrel's Run
The Pit
Caverns of Korromar
Spies in the House
The Shadow Crypt (although not knowing where you are is kinda the point in that one)
Threnal Eastern Excavation
Into the Deep
Reclamation
Restless Isles Wilderness
Slavers of the Shrieking Mines
The Chamber of Raiyum (to an extent)
Chains of Flame
Trial by Fire
The Maze of Madness
The Prison of the Planes (just indicating which level you were on)
Madstone Crater
Inferno of the Damned (indicating sides)
Servants of the Overlord
Beyond the Rift
Reach for the Sky
Roll Call
Coalescense Chamber
Ritual Sacrifice
Subterrene Wilderness
Bastion of Power
A New Invasion
The Underdark wilderness
The Demonweb wilderness
Trial by Fury

The ddocompendium has been trying to do this for you where possible, but it still might not fit everyones needs. Here is madstone crater: https://ddocompendium.com/w/File:Mad...Crater_Map.png

All of them are not done by any means.

[DYWYPI]

Due to my disability, I tend to get disorientated within 3-D mazelike quests. Ilya, it would help if you could make the lower maze section (Test of Cunning) in 'The Crucible' show the interior maze walls. I tend to get lost in there quite often even though the lower maze area isn't complex. If I could see my location in 2-D with the walls, it'd help (even though doors move to block corridors, which might mean needing an door icon). In 'Valak's Mausoleum', the map does have the maze walls very faintly shown so "Team DDO" certainly have highlighted maze wall structures before in some maps.

Although 'The Pit' is slightly confusing with the walkway helix; the quest is rather well done because there are actually signposts you can interact with telling you what lies down a specific corridor! I don't particularly have a lot of difficulty with navigating to the correct 'The Pit' rooms. I'd be as likely to get lost in 'Trial by Fire', which does have a poor map.

The Restless Isles, is rather linear but a lot of time you cannot take a direct route unless you can unlock things, etc. The 'Chains of Flames' and 'Tempests Spine' maps are not ideal. With 'Chains of Flame' you have to do a lot of backtracking down the exact same corridors so making a detailed map could be hard.

Regarding 'The Coalescence Chamber' map, it is just terrible and not in the slightest bit helpful! If it had location markers similar to 'The Pit' or something it might be a vast improvement. I basically avoid 'The Coalescence Chamber' whenever possible simply because the map is just so poorly drawn.

Navigating the 'Demonweb wilderness', just isn't fun in the slightest and 'Caught in The Web' gets a little confusing in few places. Also 'Trial by Fury' is rather weak with regards to the map layout, so I mostly have to park a Hireling as a marker; so I don't go back down the wrong path, one that I had just come from, etc.

I agree about 'Slavers of the Shrieking Mines' map not being great. Albeit I have seen the map separated into layers on a fan-site, and that map was very easy to follow and very well done, which made the quest enjoyable rather than a slog getting lost because of the in-game map was lacking detail.

It looks like a lot of the drawn maps, which are problematic, have been listed. In many cases if visual map markers (even for some NPCs in quests) were added to the maps (or location dialogues display, i.e. "the Village" LOL) some maps would benefit. Because I have a faulty short-term memory and sometimes find it problematic to recall where I've just been a few minutes ago in some multi-layer maps; additional things such as map location markers could dramatically help out.