Hireling Enhancement Tree

[cyberfanta]

What about add some aditional enhancements to your hirelings including pets.

I will love SSG if you develop an enhancement that force your hireling to be at max distance of you and dps with bow.
Also enhancement that make you hire get aditional stats based on your own stats.

Enhancement that allow configure the action priority of you hirelings. Heal Yourself > Heal Party > Run to Max Distance > Use Bow > Use Turn Undead > Melee Dps.

[Infinitedrift]

Great idea. I always supported the hirelings/summons fun personal horde. It's a fun playstyle for when you cannot find other players to team up with. Somehow though I doubt that they will take any time to improve the hireling AI. Doing so seems very tedious, and takes lots of time to experiment with.

[Alrik_Fassbauer]

Great idea, imho ! Thois would allow us to fine-tune Hireling's behaviour !

But ... since Hirelings - current ones - are based on almost ancient scripts ( I guess ) I don't think that this would be feasible.

Why, then, not build a new generation, next to the old ones, from ground up ?

[kenawyn]

I love summoners and pet classes.

This is an example universal tree I just came up with - let's call it the Summoner.

Legend:
- pet - druid wolf and artificer dog
- summon - any creature summoned with a summon monster / summon nature's ally spell
- hireling - any creature summoned from a hireling contract
- familiar/improved familiar/phantasmal - creature summoned by the Summon Familiar core ability (counts as a summon)

Core abilities

Core (level 1) - Active - Summoner
You gain Ability - Summon Familiar (20 SP): Activate this ability to summon your familiar. Choose one creature from the list of possible summons. Your familiar Hit Dice is equal to your character level up to the maximum Hit Dice. The base maximum Hit Dice is 6.
You gain 50 SP and 10 SP for each core ability.
Note: you can control - 1 familiar or summon, 1 pet and 1 hireling at the same time.

Core (level 3) - Passive - Familiar Bond
Your familiar does not count towards the summoning limit.
In addition you gain the Augment Summon feat (50% fortification, +4 attributes and +2 Hit Dice) for free.
Note: you can control - 1 familiar, 1 pet, 1 summon and 1 hireling at the same time.

Core (level 6) - Passive - Improved Familiar
When summoning a familiar you can select more powerful creatures as well. Your familiar base maximum Hit Dice increases to 12.
Note: you can control - 1 familiar or improved familiar, 1 pet, 1 summon and 1 hireling at the same time.

Core (level 12) - Passive - Phantasmal
When summoning a familiar you can select fantastic creatures as well. Your familiar base maximum Hit Dice increases to 18.
Note: you can control - 1 familiar, improved familiar or phantasmal, 1 pet, 1 summon and 1 hireling at the same time.

Core (level 18) - Passive - Summon Mastery
You have mastered the art of summoning and can summon an additional creature.
Your summoned creatures, hirelings and pets gain +2 Attributes and +2 Hit Dice.
Note: you can control - 1 familiar or improved familiar, 1 pet, 2 summon and 1 hireling at the same time.

Capstone (level 20) - Active - Grand Summoner
You gain +2 to Intelligence, Wisdom and Charisma.
You gain Ability - Grand Summon (100 SP): Summon a high level (Hit Dice 18+) Devil, Demon, Archon or Slaadi.
Your summoned monsters gain: +20 Melee/Ranged and Spell Power and +20 to PRR and MRR.
Note: you can control - 1 familiar, improved familiar or phantasmal, 1 pet, 2 summon and 1 hireling at the same time.

Tiered Abilities

Summon Improvements
Tier 1 - Passive - Elemental Bond: Your summoned creatures/hirelings/pets gain +5/10/20 elemental resistance (AP Cost 1).
Tier 2 - Passive - Hardened Summons: Your summoned creatures/hirelings/pets gain +5/10/15 PRR and +5/10/15 MRR (AP Cost 1).
Tier 3 - Passive - Fortify Summons: Your summoned creatures/hirelings/pets gain +50/75/100% fortification (AP Cost 1).
Tier 4 - Passive - Warded Summons: Your summoned creatures/hirelings/pets gain the effects of Deathblock (rank 1) / Deathward (rank 2) (AP Cost 1)
Tier 5 - Passive - Paragon Summons: Your summoned creatures/hirelings/pets gain the following abilities - choose one:
- Path of War: summons gain +1 threat range and critical multiplier
- Path of Wisdom: summons gain the benefit of maximize spell for all their spells
(AP Cost 2)

Command Abilities
Tier 1 - Active - Call of the Master: All summoned creatures/hirelings/pets warp to the player and the player triggers a diplomacy effect. (AP Cost 2)
Tier 2 - Passive - For the Master!: Improves Call of the Master activating a +10/20/30% haste boost and +10/20/30% damage boost for 20 sec. (AP Cost 1)
Tier 3 - Active - Promote - Defender: The target summoned creature/hireling/pet gains +100% hate generation. (AP Cost 2)
Tier 4 - Passive - Mighty Defender: Improves the Promote Defender ability giving the promoted creature +20/35/50 PRR and MRR. (AP Cost 1)
Tier 5 - Active - Promote - Champion: The target summoned creature/hireling/pet gains +30 Melee, Ranged, and Universal Spell Power. (AP Cost 2)

Summon Augment
Tier 1 - Passive - Augment Summon I: All summoned creatures/hirelings/pets gain +2 Attributes, +1 Hit Dice and Caster Level (Cost 2)
Tier 2 - Passive - Augment Summon II: All summoned creatures/hirelings/pets gain +3 Attributes, +2 Hit Dice and Caster Level (Cost 2)
Tier 3 - Passive - Augment Summon III: All summoned creatures/hirelings/pets gain +4 Attributes, +3 Hit Dice and Caster Level (Cost 2)
Tier 4 - Passive - Augment Summon IV: All summoned creatures/hirelings/pets gain +6 Attributes, +4 Hit Dice and Caster Level (Cost 2)
Tier 5 - Passive - Perfect Summon: All summoned creatures/hirelings/pets gain +8 Attributes, +6 Hit Dice and Caster Level (Cost 2)

Familiar Abilities
Tier 1 - Active - Familiar Stance: You gain the ability to change your familiar stance (AP Cost 1)
- Aggressive - familiar follows master by default but tries to engage enemies on sight
- Caster - familiar follows master by default but tries to cast combat spells at enemies on sight
- Defensive - familiar follows master by default and only attacks enemies if attacked or if master is attacked
- Passive - familiar follows master and does not attack, aura and other passive abilities still function
- Support - familiar is passive, but tries to casts support spells if applicable
Tier 2 - Active - Familiar Spell I: Choose one (AP Cost 1)
- Familiar Offensive Spell - single target offensive spell - depends on familiar
- Familiar Support - single target buff/heal/SP channel - depends on familiar
- Familiar Curse - single target debuff or DoT - depends on familiar
Tier 3 - Active - Familiar Aura: Choose one (AP Cost 1)
- Aura of Combat - grants allies +3/6/9 doublestrike/doubleshoot and +3/6/9 Melee, Ranged and Spell Power
- Aura of Protection - grants allies +3/6/9 AC and +3/6/9 PRR and MRR
- Aura of Healing - periodically heals friendly creatures around the familiar.
Tier 4 - Passive - Familiar Spell II: Choose one (AP Cost 1)
- Familiar Offensive Spell - AoE offensive spell - depends on familiar
- Familiar Support - AoE buff/heal/raise dead - depends on familiar
- Familiar Curse - AoE debuff or Damage field - depends on familiar
Tier 5 - Passive - Eternal Bond: Familiar is resurrected with full HP and SP when killed. A resurrected familiar is ethereal for 30s. Cooldown: 5min. (AP Cost 2)

Master Improvements
Tier 1 - Passive - Skillful Summoner: Your summoning spells no longer consume material components. (AP Cost 2)
Tier 2 - Passive - Magical Endurance: +30/+60/+100 maximum Spell Points (AP Cost 1).
Tier 3 - Passive - Ability Score: Choose one: +1 Intelligence, Wisdom or Charisma (AP Cost 2)
Tier 4 - Passive - Ability Score: Choose one: +1 Intelligence, Wisdom or Charisma (AP Cost 2)
Tier 5 - Active - Rapid Summoning: Reset the cooldown for all summoning spells. (AP Cost 2)

Not the greatest tree, but maybe it contains some ideas that can get the discussion going.

Alternatively we could have a non magic based universal tree called the Commander that could use cooldown based abilities to buff and command the pets, summons or hirelings.

[GeoffWatson]

Wow, 50 MP for one AP. That'll be really popular.

[kenawyn]

Wow, 50 MP for one AP. That'll be really popular.

Fair enough.

How about 25 SP for Core 1 and 15 per additional cores? This will still end up at 100 SP total - enough to cast the Grand Summon even if the character has no other SP sources and did not take Magical Endurance.

[GeoffWatson]

Fair enough.

How about 25 SP for Core 1 and 15 per additional cores? This will still end up at 100 SP total - enough to cast the Grand Summon even if the character has no other SP sources and did not take Magical Endurance.

You meant spell points? That's fine.
I was wondering why you had tons of Melee Power in the cores.

[kenawyn]

You meant spell points? That's fine.
I was wondering why you had tons of Melee Power in the cores.

Yes. I have the habit of calling the spell points (SP) mana points (MP).
Sorry for using the wrong abbreviation.

I have updated my post.

[NemesisAlien]

Great idea. I always supported the hirelings/summons fun personal horde. It's a fun playstyle for when you cannot find other players to team up with. Somehow though I doubt that they will take any time to improve the hireling AI. Doing so seems very tedious, and takes lots of time to experiment with.

Why not use mob AI and stats? They are survivable, unlike our summons/hires/pets.

[NemesisAlien]

Familiar Abilities
Tier 1 - Active - Familiar Stance: You gain the ability to change your familiar stance (AP Cost 1)
- Aggressive - familiar follows master by default but tries to engage enemies on sight
- Caster - familiar follows master by default but tries to cast combat spells at enemies on sight
- Defensive - familiar follows master by default and only attacks enemies if attacked or if master is attacked
- Passive - familiar follows master and does not attack, aura and other passive abilities still function
- Support - familiar is passive, but tries to casts support spells if applicable
Tier 2 - Active - Familiar Spell I: Choose one (AP Cost 1)
- Familiar Offensive Spell - single target offensive spell - depends on familiar
- Familiar Support - single target buff/heal/SP channel - depends on familiar
- Familiar Curse - single target debuff or DoT - depends on familiar
Tier 3 - Active - Familiar Aura: Choose one (AP Cost 1)
- Aura of Combat - grants allies +3/6/9 doublestrike/doubleshoot and +3/6/9 Melee, Ranged and Spell Power
- Aura of Protection - grants allies +3/6/9 AC and +3/6/9 PRR and MRR
- Aura of Healing - periodically heals friendly creatures around the familiar.
Tier 4 - Passive - Familiar Spell II: Choose one (AP Cost 1)
- Familiar Offensive Spell - AoE offensive spell - depends on familiar
- Familiar Support - AoE buff/heal/raise dead - depends on familiar
- Familiar Curse - AoE debuff or Damage field - depends on familiar
Tier 5 - Passive - Eternal Bond: Familiar is resurrected with full HP and SP when killed. A resurrected familiar is ethereal for 30s. Cooldown: 5min. (AP Cost 2)

Non caster familars trigger or disable traps? Example an over curious Meowth?

[kenawyn]

Non caster familars trigger or disable traps? Example an over curious Meowth?

I like the way you think. In Neverwinter Nights 1 my favorite familiar was the pixie because it took care of traps for me.

The main reason i did not include a rogue familiar in the tree is the following:
- trapfinding is a unique ability (rogues / artificers)
- there is no regular hireling that has remove traps, so by having a rogue familiar would undercut the gold seal hireling business

But if that's not a problem, then by all means we should have all 3 types of roles:
- fighter familiars
- caster familiars
- rogue familiars

The way i would implement this is:
Replace the Familiar Spell I with Familiar Ability I:
- for caster familiars this would still be Familiar Spell I
- for fighter familiars this would be would be a single target fighter ability like stun, knockdown or something
- for rogue familiars we could have the Open ability

Replace the Familiar Spell II with Familiar Ability II:
- for caster familiars this would still be Familiar Spell II
- for fighter familiars this would be some AoE devastating attack like great cleave or something
- for rogue familiars this would be Trapfinding multi-spell, having the Find Trap and Disable Trap components

Finally for rogue familiars we need to add a new familiar stance called rogue, that looks for traps and tries to disable them automatically

The problem with this approach is that the ability you have depends more on the familiar type, so we can't have the option to select what spell or ability we want - it will always be predetermined by the familiar. We just unlock them with Familiar Ability I and II. So for example if you want a healer you should summon a familiar that is a caster but also has support or healing. So we need a **** good description/popup for the familiars.

[NemesisAlien]

I like the way you think. In Neverwinter Nights 1 my favorite familiar was the pixie because it took care of traps for me.

The main reason i did not include a rogue familiar in the tree is the following:
- trapfinding is a unique ability (rogues / artificers)
- there is no regular hireling that has remove traps, so by having a rogue familiar would undercut the gold seal hireling business

The problem with this approach is that the ability you have depends more on the familiar type, so we can't have the option to select what spell or ability we want - it will always be predetermined by the familiar. We just unlock them with Familiar Ability I and II. So for example if you want a healer you should summon a familiar that is a caster but also has support or healing. So we need a **** good description/popup for the familiars.

Well if they cant disable, they can trigger it well before you. The problem is epic traps usually dont have a duration, they last forever.

Thats a lot of text you know.

[cyberfanta]

I love summoners and pet classes.

This is an example universal tree I just came up with - let's call it the Summoner.

Legend:
- pet - druid wolf and artificer dog
- summon - any creature summoned with a summon monster / summon nature's ally spell
- hireling - any creature summoned from a hireling contract
- familiar/improved familiar/phantasmal - creature summoned by the Summon Familiar core ability (counts as a summon)

Core abilities

Core (level 1) - Active - Summoner
You gain Ability - Summon Familiar (20 SP): Activate this ability to summon your familiar. Choose one creature from the list of possible summons. Your familiar Hit Dice is equal to your character level up to the maximum Hit Dice. The base maximum Hit Dice is 6.
You gain 50 SP and 10 SP for each core ability.
Note: you can control - 1 familiar or summon, 1 pet and 1 hireling at the same time.

Core (level 3) - Passive - Familiar Bond
Your familiar does not count towards the summoning limit.
In addition you gain the Augment Summon feat (50% fortification, +4 attributes and +2 Hit Dice) for free.
Note: you can control - 1 familiar, 1 pet, 1 summon and 1 hireling at the same time.

Core (level 6) - Passive - Improved Familiar
When summoning a familiar you can select more powerful creatures as well. Your familiar base maximum Hit Dice increases to 12.
Note: you can control - 1 familiar or improved familiar, 1 pet, 1 summon and 1 hireling at the same time.

Core (level 12) - Passive - Phantasmal
When summoning a familiar you can select fantastic creatures as well. Your familiar base maximum Hit Dice increases to 18.
Note: you can control - 1 familiar, improved familiar or phantasmal, 1 pet, 1 summon and 1 hireling at the same time.

Core (level 18) - Passive - Summon Mastery
You have mastered the art of summoning and can summon an additional creature.
Your summoned creatures, hirelings and pets gain +2 Attributes and +2 Hit Dice.
Note: you can control - 1 familiar or improved familiar, 1 pet, 2 summon and 1 hireling at the same time.

Capstone (level 20) - Active - Grand Summoner
You gain +2 to Intelligence, Wisdom and Charisma.
You gain Ability - Grand Summon (100 SP): Summon a high level (Hit Dice 18+) Devil, Demon, Archon or Slaadi.
Your summoned monsters gain: +20 Melee/Ranged and Spell Power and +20 to PRR and MRR.
Note: you can control - 1 familiar, improved familiar or phantasmal, 1 pet, 2 summon and 1 hireling at the same time.

Tiered Abilities

Summon Improvements
Tier 1 - Passive - Elemental Bond: Your summoned creatures/hirelings/pets gain +5/10/20 elemental resistance (AP Cost 1).
Tier 2 - Passive - Hardened Summons: Your summoned creatures/hirelings/pets gain +5/10/15 PRR and +5/10/15 MRR (AP Cost 1).
Tier 3 - Passive - Fortify Summons: Your summoned creatures/hirelings/pets gain +50/75/100% fortification (AP Cost 1).
Tier 4 - Passive - Warded Summons: Your summoned creatures/hirelings/pets gain the effects of Deathblock (rank 1) / Deathward (rank 2) (AP Cost 1)
Tier 5 - Passive - Paragon Summons: Your summoned creatures/hirelings/pets gain the following abilities - choose one:
- Path of War: summons gain +1 threat range and critical multiplier
- Path of Wisdom: summons gain the benefit of maximize spell for all their spells
(AP Cost 2)

Command Abilities
Tier 1 - Active - Call of the Master: All summoned creatures/hirelings/pets warp to the player and the player triggers a diplomacy effect. (AP Cost 2)
Tier 2 - Passive - For the Master!: Improves Call of the Master activating a +10/20/30% haste boost and +10/20/30% damage boost for 20 sec. (AP Cost 1)
Tier 3 - Active - Promote - Defender: The target summoned creature/hireling/pet gains +100% hate generation. (AP Cost 2)
Tier 4 - Passive - Mighty Defender: Improves the Promote Defender ability giving the promoted creature +20/35/50 PRR and MRR. (AP Cost 1)
Tier 5 - Active - Promote - Champion: The target summoned creature/hireling/pet gains +30 Melee, Ranged, and Universal Spell Power. (AP Cost 2)

Summon Augment
Tier 1 - Passive - Augment Summon I: All summoned creatures/hirelings/pets gain +2 Attributes, +1 Hit Dice and Caster Level (Cost 2)
Tier 2 - Passive - Augment Summon II: All summoned creatures/hirelings/pets gain +3 Attributes, +2 Hit Dice and Caster Level (Cost 2)
Tier 3 - Passive - Augment Summon III: All summoned creatures/hirelings/pets gain +4 Attributes, +3 Hit Dice and Caster Level (Cost 2)
Tier 4 - Passive - Augment Summon IV: All summoned creatures/hirelings/pets gain +6 Attributes, +4 Hit Dice and Caster Level (Cost 2)
Tier 5 - Passive - Perfect Summon: All summoned creatures/hirelings/pets gain +8 Attributes, +6 Hit Dice and Caster Level (Cost 2)

Familiar Abilities
Tier 1 - Active - Familiar Stance: You gain the ability to change your familiar stance (AP Cost 1)
- Aggressive - familiar follows master by default but tries to engage enemies on sight
- Caster - familiar follows master by default but tries to cast combat spells at enemies on sight
- Defensive - familiar follows master by default and only attacks enemies if attacked or if master is attacked
- Passive - familiar follows master and does not attack, aura and other passive abilities still function
- Support - familiar is passive, but tries to casts support spells if applicable
Tier 2 - Active - Familiar Spell I: Choose one (AP Cost 1)
- Familiar Offensive Spell - single target offensive spell - depends on familiar
- Familiar Support - single target buff/heal/SP channel - depends on familiar
- Familiar Curse - single target debuff or DoT - depends on familiar
Tier 3 - Active - Familiar Aura: Choose one (AP Cost 1)
- Aura of Combat - grants allies +3/6/9 doublestrike/doubleshoot and +3/6/9 Melee, Ranged and Spell Power
- Aura of Protection - grants allies +3/6/9 AC and +3/6/9 PRR and MRR
- Aura of Healing - periodically heals friendly creatures around the familiar.
Tier 4 - Passive - Familiar Spell II: Choose one (AP Cost 1)
- Familiar Offensive Spell - AoE offensive spell - depends on familiar
- Familiar Support - AoE buff/heal/raise dead - depends on familiar
- Familiar Curse - AoE debuff or Damage field - depends on familiar
Tier 5 - Passive - Eternal Bond: Familiar is resurrected with full HP and SP when killed. A resurrected familiar is ethereal for 30s. Cooldown: 5min. (AP Cost 2)

Master Improvements
Tier 1 - Passive - Skillful Summoner: Your summoning spells no longer consume material components. (AP Cost 2)
Tier 2 - Passive - Magical Endurance: +30/+60/+100 maximum Spell Points (AP Cost 1).
Tier 3 - Passive - Ability Score: Choose one: +1 Intelligence, Wisdom or Charisma (AP Cost 2)
Tier 4 - Passive - Ability Score: Choose one: +1 Intelligence, Wisdom or Charisma (AP Cost 2)
Tier 5 - Active - Rapid Summoning: Reset the cooldown for all summoning spells. (AP Cost 2)

Not the greatest tree, but maybe it contains some ideas that can get the discussion going.

Alternatively we could have a non magic based universal tree called the Commander that could use cooldown based abilities to buff and command the pets, summons or hirelings.

Nice contribution.

But what about CR of creatures?

For example: An Epic Elite mob of King Forest have CR 62, if you have a barbarian hireling, it dont resist more than 1 mob. The players can do it because we can improve our stats over many limits, on my last wizard life i reached Int 105 DC's 132. I think a hireling is not possible for it to get that amount. I think we should include on this tree a way to make your hire get bonus based on your own stats. Example: Barbarian Hireling get Constitution based on 1/2 your best stats, get DC's based on you best between Caster or Combat DC's.

[kenawyn]

Nice contribution.

But what about CR of creatures?

For example: An Epic Elite mob of King Forest have CR 62, if you have a barbarian hireling, it dont resist more than 1 mob. The players can do it because we can improve our stats over many limits, on my last wizard life i reached Int 105 DC's 132. I think a hireling is not possible for it to get that amount. I think we should include on this tree a way to make your hire get bonus based on your own stats. Example: Barbarian Hireling get Constitution based on 1/2 your best stats, get DC's based on you best between Caster or Combat DC's.

You are correct.
Even a maxed out Summoner could not give your pets, hirelings and summons enough power to challenge the epic elite mobs. There is a reason why charming and dominating them is more popular - especially since you are boosting their power further.

The current design is a joke. It is clear that the spells were never designed to handle multiple difficulty levels. Just compare the level 9 spell - Dominate Monster with the level 9 spell - Summon Monster IX. It's true that not all monsters can be dominated, and if they are they might eventually break free.. so i don't mind that with dominate you get a stronger creature. The problem is that the dominated monster scales with the quest difficulty and thus can stay relevant at all difficulty levels, the summoned monsters remain as weak as they were on Heroic Normal.

Hirelings are a little better, because there are epic hirelings. The problem with them is that their power was never truly adjusted to the new loot.

As i see it, there are 3 solutions
rebuild the hireling, summon and pet systems from scratch

Most summoning spells in D&D are not supposed to give you amazing units, because the game is focused and balanced around the player party. Of course we could argue that DDO already went so far away from PnP that there is no good reason to adhere to the original summoning / hireling concepts. Not to mention there are times when it is hard to find a group and solo play is getting more and more popular. Based on this i have no problem suggesting a full revamp of pets, hirelings and summons.

But if these systems are ever rebuilt i hope it will be done with moderation - I don't want to grind hireling past lives.

Add an epic destiny that improves pets, hirelings and summons

The main reason our pets, summons and hirelings cannot compete with the epic elite stuff is that there is no further advancements at the epic levels. Most of the stuff focuses on improving the character, so the pet class play-styles are left behind. Even if they would add the summoner tree, it would not solve the problem for the epic levels.

One possible option to fix the epic stuff is to modify a destiny or add a new destiny that addresses this problem.
How?
- Epic summons
- destiny enhancements that boost power/survival of pets, hirelings and summons
- more epic feats that boost power/survival of pets, hirelings and summons

Introduce new itemization that improves pets, hirelings and summons when worn
Here are some examples:
- Crown of Command (helmet/crown) - Inspires your pets, hirelings and summons - they are affected by Heroism (heroic) / Greater Heroism (epic)
- Orb of Shadows (orb) - Dark energies from the shadow plane cloak your pets, hirelings and summons - they gain blurry (heroic) / lesser displacement (epic)
- The Field Marshal's Baton (club/scepter) - grants morale bonus to Attributes and Hit Dice of pets, hirelings and summons.
- Quori shard of the Shared Mind (trinket) - grants your pets, hirelings and summons a psionic bonus +1W (heroic) / +3W (epic) to weapon damage

Note: The items could give other bonuses as well, i just listed the relevant ones for the example

[cyberfanta]

You are correct.
Even a maxed out Summoner could not give your pets, hirelings and summons enough power to challenge the epic elite mobs. There is a reason why charming and dominating them is more popular - especially since you are boosting their power further.

The current design is a joke. It is clear that the spells were never designed to handle multiple difficulty levels. Just compare the level 9 spell - Dominate Monster with the level 9 spell - Summon Monster IX. It's true that not all monsters can be dominated, and if they are they might eventually break free.. so i don't mind that with dominate you get a stronger creature. The problem is that the dominated monster scales with the quest difficulty and thus can stay relevant at all difficulty levels, the summoned monsters remain as weak as they were on Heroic Normal.

Hirelings are a little better, because there are epic hirelings. The problem with them is that their power was never truly adjusted to the new loot.

As i see it, there are 3 solutions
rebuild the hireling, summon and pet systems from scratch

Most summoning spells in D&D are not supposed to give you amazing units, because the game is focused and balanced around the player party. Of course we could argue that DDO already went so far away from PnP that there is no good reason to adhere to the original summoning / hireling concepts. Not to mention there are times when it is hard to find a group and solo play is getting more and more popular. Based on this i have no problem suggesting a full revamp of pets, hirelings and summons.

But if these systems are ever rebuilt i hope it will be done with moderation - I don't want to grind hireling past lives.

Add an epic destiny that improves pets, hirelings and summons

The main reason our pets, summons and hirelings cannot compete with the epic elite stuff is that there is no further advancements at the epic levels. Most of the stuff focuses on improving the character, so the pet class play-styles are left behind. Even if they would add the summoner tree, it would not solve the problem for the epic levels.

One possible option to fix the epic stuff is to modify a destiny or add a new destiny that addresses this problem.
How?
- Epic summons
- destiny enhancements that boost power/survival of pets, hirelings and summons
- more epic feats that boost power/survival of pets, hirelings and summons

Introduce new itemization that improves pets, hirelings and summons when worn
Here are some examples:
- Crown of Command (helmet/crown) - Inspires your pets, hirelings and summons - they are affected by Heroism (heroic) / Greater Heroism (epic)
- Orb of Shadows (orb) - Dark energies from the shadow plane cloak your pets, hirelings and summons - they gain blurry (heroic) / lesser displacement (epic)
- The Field Marshal's Baton (club/scepter) - grants morale bonus to Attributes and Hit Dice of pets, hirelings and summons.
- Quori shard of the Shared Mind (trinket) - grants your pets, hirelings and summons a psionic bonus +1W (heroic) / +3W (epic) to weapon damage

Note: The items could give other bonuses as well, i just listed the relevant ones for the example

And we just told about Epic Elite. What about Reaper Levels. They should scale too.

I think than a possible solution is reduce the healing amount but incress survival.

[kenawyn]

And we just told about Epic Elite. What about Reaper Levels. They should scale too.

I think than a possible solution is reduce the healing amount but incress survival.

I do not run reaper much, so I cannot really comment on it, sorry.

To me reaper is the challenge difficulty and I still need to get some past lives and gear before i can move from elite to reaper.
The way i see it - since there is a huge discrepancy between various builds I am perfectly fine not being able to solo high reaper with an inferior summoner build.

What i am not ok with is pets, hirelings and summons not being viable in elite and epic content. As I see it a domination spell and a summon spell of the same level should produce similar results. As long as this is not addressed i don't think we should discuss reaper, since fixing this issue might fix the reaper issue as well.

[Annex]

If it gets me a Medusa sidekick, I am all in.

[Lonnbeimnech]

would love if this was a 4th reaper tree instead of us spending our own character AP to buff our hirelings

if you have to spend ap and/or epic destiny points the opportunity cost would be far too high considering their AI

[iamsamoth0]

I love the idea of an enhancement tree that applies to hirelings. Seems like it could be so useful.