Falconry-Using Ranger?

[JohnnyArkham]

Please forgive me if this is somewhere w/in the forums already. My Search-Fu is weak.
I was just wondering whether anyone has built and enjoyed a successful Ranger (multi ok) using the Falconry tree.
Thematically, they seem like they would work well together...but I'm wondering whether the hard crunchy reality measures up.
I suppose some Druid might make a good blending?

Thanks!

[Drecas]

I posted such a build in the "Request a build" thread, still awaiting the forum vets' opinion on my build.

[unbongwah]

I was just wondering whether anyone has built and enjoyed a successful Ranger (multi ok) using the Falconry tree.

I'll presume you mean on a WIS-based build, as opposed to just splashing some Falconry APs onto a ranger and calling it a day.

It's doable but the main downside is Falconry is an AP-intensive tree: it costs 12 APs to get WIS to damage and 23 APs to get a Battle Trance (+1/2 WIS mod bonus to damage etc.), more if you want No Mercy etc. By design, ranger has its melee crit bonuses in separate trees. So if you're playing a melee ranger, you will usually spend 40+ APs on Tempest and 24+ in DWS (+1 crit range, Killer). That leaves just enough APs for tier-3 Falconry (WIS to dmg) but not tier-4 unless you give up APs from DWS. OTOH if you wanted an archer, you could do something like 42 DWS / 26 Falconry / 12 AA; DWS tree now has both crit range and multiplier bonuses for bows.

Basically Falconry tends to work better for builds which only need to focus on one class tree: e.g., Cetus's HO fighter which runs in Fury of the Wild for the 2H DPS bonuses. You can't use defensive stance in FotW so Cetus skips Stalwart Defender entirely to focus on the Kensei, Falconry, and half-orc racial trees. His build isn't WIS-based, it's a typical STR build which puts a lot of APs into Falconry for Deadly Instinct + No Mercy; the latter stacks with half-orc Brutality for +45% damage to helpless mobs. I posted a WIS-based Aasimar variant: lower DPS but more survivability from Healing Hands + heal amp.

[Coffey]

Please forgive me if this is somewhere w/in the forums already. My Search-Fu is weak.
I was just wondering whether anyone has built and enjoyed a successful Ranger (multi ok) using the Falconry tree.
Thematically, they seem like they would work well together...but I'm wondering whether the hard crunchy reality measures up.
I suppose some Druid might make a good blending?

Thanks!

Check out Strimtoms Tried-and-Tested-Hardcore-Viable-Ranger-For-All-Your-Hardcore-Needs.

It will give you a better idea what the build is about if you watch the videos. Phosphor maces would be a lot of fun with this build!

[unbongwah]

Check out Strimtoms Tried-and-Tested-Hardcore-Viable-Ranger-For-All-Your-Hardcore-Needs.

It also handily illustrates the issues I mentioned with AP shortage and actually doubles down on them by spending 17 APs for Destroyer of the Dead. Even with +2 AP tome, his build still can't afford No Mercy, one of the main perks of going tier-4 Falconry.

[JohnnyArkham]

Thanks all!
This very neatly addresses all of my questions.
Now to the Druid forum to ask the same

j/k I think I'll dig into Druid trees (pun intended?) to see if I see the same situation re: AP availability.

Thanks again!

[Melkazar]

My favorite character is an acid shooting death bird ranger. Assassination DC's for the bird are pretty easy to obtain. At cap in Long Shadow augments the DC is over 100. Nearly all the trash and quite a few orange names die instantly. As already noted it is AP intensive, but I did have enough points to add nearly all the acid damage cores from Arcane Archer. Coupled with the stone shoes the acid spell power is in the 500s. I have noted quite a few players with birds but they rarely use the bird so I would assume they are mainly tapping the tree for WIS damage. I still hold out for an all ranger falconry shroud run with twelve birds winging through the air. Yep, love my assassiowl.

Forgot to mention ED is Shiradi with twists from Fury and Shadowdancer, specifically the increase to helpless damage and assassination DCs. Helpless foes get 60% more damage.

[unbongwah]

j/k I think I'll dig into Druid trees (pun intended?) to see if I see the same situation re: AP availability.

After Falconry came out - and before the buffs to bear form - there were some WIS-based wolf builds: tier-5 Nature's Warrior + tier-4 Falconry (No Mercy etc.), with just enough Nature's Warrior to take defensive stance (+20 PRR/MRR).

The benefits of going WIS-based with Falconry were:

• No Mercy and Prey on the Weak stack for +45% damage vs helpless mobs. If you have a ton of extra racial APs, half-orc Brutality will also stack for another +15%.
• Bird attacks add new ways of rendering mobs helpless.
• Druid caster DCs are based on WIS, of course, so you can also make use of spells like Earthquake.
• Since you're not using Rage of the Beast, you can take Precision instead of Power Attack.

The downsides are:

• Your melee DPS doesn't benefit from all the STR bonuses from druid like Rage of the Beast and Animal Growth. Which is why we don't spend APs on the RotB line in NP.
• You're feat-staved on a pure-ish druid but a deep multiclass would cost higher-level druid spells and Enhancements. So it's hard to max out both your melee and magic potential due to insufficient feats.

But now that Strikethrough is the new hawtness, what about WIS-based bear builds? It's doable, but a bear build will want to spend at least 24 APs in Nature's Warrior for True Hunter (+1 crit multiplier) and Fatal Harrier (up to +25% attack speed). I.e., you have the same AP problem as a WIS-based Tempest does. A WIS-based wolf can give up the Nature's Protector tree a lot easier than a WIS-based bear can give up Nature's Warrior.

[unbongwah]

Oh and I forgot to mention that my Tempest Warpriest thread contains ranger 6 / cleric 14 (War domain) build. The idea being your crit bonus comes from Holy Sword so you don't need to spend APs on DWS. This could also be adapted to a WIS-based Falconry build: 40 Tempest / 27 Warpriest with 13 APs left over for DWS (Exposing Strike) or Warpriest or whatever. However since you're delaying HS until level 20, it's not intended for a heroics-only life.

[JohnnyArkham]

I realize this takes things off the Ranger track even further, but I'll ask anyway.

Is there a build out there, regardless of Class, that makes full use of Falconry?; capstone and somewhat optimized, etc?

Or is it largely just being used for the WIS boosts and small splashes (fun aspects of hunting birds aside) ?

[unbongwah]

Is there a build out there, regardless of Class, that makes full use of Falconry?; capstone and somewhat optimized, etc?

Generally speaking, you would only take tier-5 Falconry if your other options were worse DPS; so you would look for a class with a weaker tier-5. And if you have Death from Above, you definitely want the Falconry capstone too ("Your active Falcon attacks have a chance to reset the cooldown on Death From Above"), because otherwise you have to wait a minute between DfA attacks.

So I would look at a battlecleric. Nothing stopping you from taking a build like Axel's and reversing the AP split: e.g., 41 Falconry for tier-5s and capstone; 31 Radiant Servant for Positive Energy Shield; 8 APs PDK for Great Weapon Aptitude. Better DPS, worse as a healer.

[JohnnyArkham]

Perfect.
Sage advice as always, unbongwah.
Many thanks

[Melkazar]

I realize this takes things off the Ranger track even further, but I'll ask anyway.

Is there a build out there, regardless of Class, that makes full use of Falconry?; capstone and somewhat optimized, etc?

Or is it largely just being used for the WIS boosts and small splashes (fun aspects of hunting birds aside) ?

This is basically what I have going. Full bird tree and acid damage from AA. I don't worry about DPS because the assassinate is so easy that things die. Start from Strimtom's Acid Arrow build and substitute the falconry tree. I have a one level rogue splash so it still allows me a capstone which I would lose were I still full AA.

[Coffey]

Are you talking Heroics or Epics?

Air Domain Cleric is very versatile enhancement wise.
Falconry 41

Fighter is a solid choice
Kensei 42
Falconry 25-31 AP
Aasimar / Aasimar Scourge 7 AP
Stalwart Defender 0-6 AP (25 PRR MRR)

Ranger will always miss +1 crit threat from Deepwood Stalker core 4 so weapons with an expanded crit threat are best if you want to make up the difference. Nightforge Avenger Blade for example. If Lacking AP then forget about Heavy Maces and Destroyer of the Dead if going with Assimar Scourge.
Tempest 42 AP
Falconry 31 AP
Aasimar / Aasimar Scourge 7 AP

Monk is great with Wisdom
Shintao 42 AP
Falconry 31 AP
Aasimar / Aasimar Scourge 7 AP

Inquisitive Universal Tree Heavy or Light Xbow Any class
Inquisitive 41 AP
Falconry 31 AP
Aasimar / Aasimar Scourge 7 AP


Note that if youre not going Ranger a +1 Heart of Wood is needed to remove the 1st level of Ranger from Aasimar Scourge at level 15 after you have your chosen class levels added to the character.

[unbongwah]

To follow up my own build idea by request: WIS-based Deepwood Stalker with Falconry.

Scourge Stalker
Ranger 20
True Neutral OR <Lawful|Chaotic> Good Aasimar Scourge


Stats
               32pt     34pt     36pt     Tome     Level Up
               ----     ----     ----     ----     --------
Strength         8        8        8                4: WIS
Dexterity       16       16       16       +5       8: WIS
Constitution    14       15       16               12: WIS
Intelligence     8        8        8               16: WIS
Wisdom          20       20       20       +2      20: WIS
Charisma         8        8        8               24: WIS
                                                   28: WIS

Skills
          1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
         ------------------------------------------------------------
Concent   4  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  23
Heal      4  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  23
Spot      4  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  23
Spellcr   2     1     1     1     1     1     1     1     1     1     11
UMD       1  1     1     1     1     1     1     1     1     1     1  11
Tumble    1                                                            1
         ------------------------------------------------------------
         20  5  5  5  5  5  5  5  5  5  5  5  5  5  5  5  5  5  5  5


Feats

 1        : Point Blank Shot
 3        : Dodge
 6        : Mobility
 9        : Shot on the Run
12        : Improved Critical: Ranged
15        : Precision
18        : Quicken Spell
21 Epic   : Overwhelming Critical
24 Epic   : Combat Archery
26 Destiny: Holy Strike OR Pierce Damage Reduction: Silver
27 Epic   : Blinding Speed
28 Destiny: Doubleshot
29 Destiny: Mass Frog
30 Epic   : Epic Damage Reduction
30 Legend : Scion of: Ethereal Plane

 1 Ranger : Favored Enemy: Giant
 5 Ranger : Favored Enemy: Construct
10 Ranger : Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider
15 Ranger : Favored Enemy: Elemental
20 Ranger : Favored Enemy: Aberration


Enhancements (80 AP)

Deepwood Stalker (42 AP)
Far Shot, Sneak Attack, Sniper Shot, Advanced Sneak Attack, Mark of the Hunted, Horizon Shot
Favored Defense I, Stealthy III
Survivalist, Melee/Range Power Boost III
Survivalist, Thrill of the Hunt III, Favored Hunter III, Aimed Shot
Survivalist, Killer III, Merciful Shot
Extra Favored Enemy: Monstrous Humanoid, Heavy Draw, Strikes Like Lightning, Head Shot, Improved Archer's Focus

Falconry (27 AP)
Falcon, Wisdom
Hunter's Knowledge, Out in Nature III
Killer Instinct I, Diving Shot III, Sprint Boost I
Killer Instinct II, Strike for the Eyes: Shot III, Conditioning
Deadly Instinct III, No Mercy III, Expose Weakness

Arcane Archer (11 AP)
Arcane Archer, Morphic Arrows, Metalline Arrows
Conjure Arrows, Corrosive Arrows
Force Arrows I, Elemental Damage

Leveling Guide

Falconry: Falcon
Hunter's Knowledge, Out in Nature III
Killer Instinct I, Diving Shot II, Sprint Boost I
Killer Instinct II

Arcane Archer: Arcane Archer, Morphic Arrows
Conjure Arrows, Corrosive Arrows

Deepwood Stalker: Far Shot, Sneak Attack, Sniper Shot, Advanced Sneak Attack
Favored Defense I, Stealthy III
Survivalist, Melee/Range Power Boost III
Survivalist, Thrill of the Hunt III, Favored Hunter III, Aimed Shot
Survivalist, Killer III, Merciful Shot
Heavy Draw, Strikes Like Lightning, Head Shot, Improved Archer's Focus
15. AA2 Elemental Damage; AA2 Force Arrows I
16. AA0 Metalline Arrows; Fal3 Conditioning; Fal3 Strike for the Eyes: Shot I
17. Fal3 Strike for the Eyes: Shot II, III; DS5 Extra Favored Enemy: Monstrous Humanoid
18. DS0 Mark of the Hunted; Fal0 Wisdom; Fal2 Diving Shot III
19. Fal4 Expose Weakness; Fal4 No Mercy I, II, III
20. DS0 Horizon Shot; Fal4 Deadly Instinct I, II, III

Combat Archery requires DEX 21 by level 24; this build presumes +5 DEX tome from Favor. Or just buy it from the DDO Store; it's your money or your time, so your call.

Epic Destiny: either Shiradi Champion or Fury of the Wild is probably best. In the end, the core concept is combining helplessness from bird attacks + No Mercy's damage bonus + Sniper Shot's +2x critical multiplier + <Adrenaline|Hunt's End> crit bonus. Ideally you also have full stacks of Killer and Improved Archer's Focus too. Alternatively, you could run in Divine Crusader for extra Doubleshot, +1 crit range, and Blessed Blades (hence the good alignment options).

Downsides: archery doesn't have the sustained DPS of other ranged combat styles due in large part to the apparent cap on fire rate. And this build will have less Doubleshot than classic ranger builds like Strimtom's without the last two AA cores. So in essence you're trading the sustained DPS of that build for the single-target burst DPS from the aforementioned combo.

[SocratesBastardSon]

Is there a build out there, regardless of Class, that makes full use of Falconry?; capstone and somewhat optimized, etc?

I have not seen one, but I did make one. It was not a Ranger, so if that's what you need, well, my response may not help. Also, I am much lazier than unbongwah, so I won't post the full build. But I'll give you the highlights and general impressions. I call him Holy Jack.

First thing is my overall conclusion: the tree lacks much in the way of boosting DPS. Despite the various bird attacks, I felt the DPS lagged in comparison to other ranged builds like Inquisitive, Never Ending Fusilade, and unbongwah's DWS-heavy builds.

However...

This tree has some specific capacities that you should focus on, otherwise you should adopt one of the more popular ranged builds. And what are those? Wisdom-based crowd control and assassination. IMO trying to do anything else with a 41 pt ranged Falconer is a waste of time. Maybe someone will prove me wrong at some point, but I doubt it.

What I did was the following:
Aasimar Cleric 15/Druid 3/Arti 2
This is a Wisdom build. Max Wisdom, put the rest into INT (trapping and skill point) and CON. This build is a repeater/rune arm ranged.

I'll explain my choices below, but I would not do it with Druid again. Cleric 18/Arti 2 would be better, although some may prefer 16/4 in order to gain BE's Fusillade, but I prefer Warpriest over BE (see below). Fusillade is a 22 AP investment, and repeaters (which this build requires) gain less benefit from it than GXbow or dual xbows.

First off, I wanted a cleric life, and enjoy playing utility players with healing, ranged and trapping. If you don't, if you're looking for min-maxed high reaper/legendary raid builds, then nothing to see here. Move along...

I've tried several variations on my search for the Ultimate Utility Build (UUB), and this one came close, but what I suggested above -- Falconer Cleric 18/Arti 2 -- may be it. TBD

So, back to Cleric 15. I wanted the following:

• level 8 spells
• Earthquake from Earth Domain: this fits with the crowd control theme (I was inspired by an old ranged Druid build unbongwah had once posted, that combined Earthquake and ranged)
• and Ameliorating Strike from t4 War Priest

My thought was that healing from Falconry's t5 Thrill of the Hunt and Ameliorating Strike would help make up for not focusing on healing via Radiant Servant, etc. That worked nicely since my damage-to-heal approach acted as a nice replacement for Positive Energy Aura. It's not as good, but you're trading some healing for offense.

Tossing out an Earthquake, followed by Blade Barrier, then cutting loose with bird strikes, especially Coordinated Shot, worked well. Or it did, up to a point. By the time I got in R5 it just wasn't effective enough anymore to make up for the aggro it attracted. Not recommended at those levels.

So, that's the healing and CC portion. Next, assassination.

I took every point I could to improve my assassination DCs. IIRC, I got my DCs around 80 (not counting reaper APs or filigrees). I have no doubt a more talented and loaded player could easily surpass that. I did it by using Shadowdancer, and twisting in Legendary Tactics and Unusual Tactics from Legendary Dreadnought. Executioner's Shot from t5 SD gave me two assassinate attacks, and I could reliably assassinate regular mobs, champs and even Orange Names in low reaper, and it was still useful in mid-reaper epic quests. Being able to assassinate the totems in Baba at range was really nice.

For gear I used Knifepalm from Ravenloft and I had goggles at several levels with nice assassination bonuses from random lootgen.

Finally, Druid.

On the positive side, Flight was nice. A quick +20 Dodge when things get hairy never hurts.

But the main reason was I wanted to try out the third part of Falconry, something that looks like it helps make up for poor DPS: the extra 30% helpless damage from No Mercy. I was given to believe all helpless damage stacks. So at Epic I initially twisted Sense Weakness from t4 Fury (rather than than LD's Unusual Tactics). And I had the 3 levels of Druid to access Prey on the Weak from t3 Nature's Warrior. That gave me 30 + 30 + 15 = 75%. I ran around in the 85-90% range for helpless damage depending on other gear, ship buffs, etc. E.g., Part of the Family set from Finding Dorris added another 5%.

I did not try to crunch the numbers and do a deep dive into what was working or not. It just didn't feel effective. It was a very expensive investment, and stuff died fast enough that I just didn't see the value. Maybe in higher reaper it's worthwhile? So I dumped the focus on helpless damage and that's when I went deeper into War Priest (see above) and Aasimar for more healing and other goodies. I was glad I did.

I don't recall my final breakdown, but it was something like
41 Falconry
27 War Priest
4 Battle Engineer
9 Aasimar (I had 1 racial point; if you do another race you may prefer putting points into Radiant Servant for the third core instead)

So a quick summary:

• Falconry lends itself well to ranged divine builds, for the obvious reason that Wisdom does so much work for you. Hence Aasimar.
• Chasing DPS just waters down what this build is good at. You are not going to lead the kill count. But you can solo, and you can make an enormous contribution to any group.
• Defenses are decent; any aggro you do get can be assassinated or CC'd in short order.
• Being ranged saves on spell points, and you can still be an effective healer. Feats and APs are very tight; you have to decide whether you want to put more into ranged or healing metamagics. I did ranged, and put the rest into boosting healing (Empower Healing and Quicken are a must, IMO).
• The trapping and rune arm abilities from Arti are icing on the cake.

I never lacked for something to do. Whatever was needed by the party, I had a useful contribution to make. Whether it was ranged, spell damage, trapping, healing, CC, or knocking out pesky spellcasters or hard-to-reach ranged, I could take care of it.

My goal is to defeat the curse of Jack-of-all-Trades being Jack-Sh*t-at-all-Trades. A divine Aasimar + Falconry combo actually helped accomplish that in what I thought was a fun and satisfying manner. Recommended, just so long as you understand the limitations and embrace its strengths.

[unbongwah]

Also, I am much lazier than unbongwah, so I won't post the full build.

It's funny you say that because I can usually prototype a build fairly quickly just from doing so many of them over the last decade(?!), but actually writing a post to explain how they work takes far longer so I tend to be like "enh just go read this thread instead."

Fusillade is a 22 AP investment

24 APs: you need the fourth rank of Crossbow Training to take EF. And since this is an (increasingly rare) example of a repeater build, it makes sense to have it, though I can see how Warpriest fits your theme. Also the +10% Sacred HPs from the level 12 core stacks with Falconry's +5% Quality HPs.

• Earthquake from Earth Domain: this fits with the crowd control theme (I was inspired by an old ranged Druid build unbongwah had once posted, that combined Earthquake and ranged)

Old builds never die, they just get reincarnated into new toons.

I was thinking Law domain (Greater Command SLA) + Inquisitive + Falconry could be interesting too.

[SocratesBastardSon]

My previous post is what I did, so I can vouch for how it operates.

If I were going to go with a Ranger component, I have to say, I would hesitate to do a full 41 pt Falconry build where all or most of my levels were in Ranger. I think DWS is just so much more effective; what unbongwah recommends is exactly right.

But...

What about combining the two approaches? Maybe, maybe.

I would start with my beginning point: embrace what Falconry is good at: assassination and CC.

Going to t4 in DWS instead of War Priest adds Merciful Shot, Leg Shot and Killer. All good offensive attacks that add CC and assassinate-like abilities. I would want to keep Cleric as my main class, with Earth Domain again. So that would mean Cleric 14/Ranger 4/Arti 2.

Some may recommend Ranger 6 for the very powerful Called Shot third core. For sure you would be sacrificing some healing for offensive output, and all other things being equal, there's nothing wrong with that trade-off in the abstract. But I don't think that losing all Arti levels or two levels of Cleric is worth it.

Since I haven't tried that approach I can't speak with confidence. It could even be a toss-up as to which is better.

[SocratesBastardSon]

It's funny you say that because I can usually prototype a build fairly quickly just from doing so many of them over the last decade(?!), but actually writing a post to explain how they work takes far longer so I tend to be like "enh just go read this thread instead."

It's also funny, I wasn't actually planning on being so long-winded.

I was thinking Law domain (Greater Command SLA) + Inquisitive + Falconry could be interesting too.

Interesting thought. Order's Wrath can be decent too.

I did a Falc/Inq build right after Inq came out on a FvS, and was very happy with it. I'm not sure why I never did one again. As for cleric, I probably dismissed spell-focused domains with both Inq and Falc because I didn't want to have to worry about spell DCs on top of everything else. I know that Earthquake is an Evocation, spell, but with BB cast in the middle of it, I just keep piking mobs through the kill pit.

[zooble]

I realize this takes things off the Ranger track even further, but I'll ask anyway.

Is there a build out there, regardless of Class, that makes full use of Falconry?; capstone and somewhat optimized, etc?

For ETRs it works quite well on my WIS Clerics. It provides decent gains compared to the other options.

War Domain for the +1 +1 crit since Falconry doesn't have any and Warpriest is just +1 +0.

Bird assassinate is super fun and probably the best thing about Falconry. It also likely won't fail. It's so reliable that I often tab the target, fire and forget, tab to target I want to attack. I don't even need to look to see if it saved (delay). Only really had trouble running stuff like EE under-leveled (e.g. level 25 running EE Sharn). Gear is Borderlands so +10 +4 +2 Wis and +5 Assassinate from gear which I stick to till 29. DC is way higher than I can get on Destruction.

I save Mark the Prey Shot (another tier 5) for red names which is a straight up 10% damage boost for the group for 10s. It doesn't sound like long but it's long enough to provide a lot of value to groups in a single target scenario like most boss fights.

I don't run the heal tier 5 attack since... Cleric... although it does add another thing that can reset and it is the hardest hitting at 5W, the problem is you have to spend more than 1ap in it to get more than 1W(like with the other strikes).

The 2 single target helpless attacks I use on high value targets that haven't been/can't be assassinated. If none then just whatever I'm attacking/about to attack. It's almost never worth using on something that is already being attacked since they generally die before it hits. When you get Dire Charge, it makes these attacks less relevant but they are extra cooldowns with a long range so they still have their place.

Its weak point is a lack of melee cleaves. It has one low damage 2W cleave that has a massive blind but that's it and I would recommend you bring your own from elsewhere.



For ETRs on my healer cleric without any dps feats at all I've done Falconry/AA(elf). There's not a lot to heal so I don't level in healing enhancements but I do always twist Cocoon. Obviously damage isn't amazing but Assassinate/Mark/Helpless provides full value as above (which is basically the core playstyle of falconry).