Monk improvements

[Logicman69]

One thing we might all be dancing around is the fact that we all play monks differently. I think the biggest factor, especially with combos, is how your playstyle is set up? What are you using hardware wise to play DDO? Is it a simple keyboard and mouse? If so then I definitely can see where 16 hotbars worth of clickies are a pain! On the flip side, if you are using a more advanced set up and have certain functions macro'd, then it becomes a little easier to pay and control.

I run a light monk, always have as its just what I prefer. I don't use alot of hotbars. I have a bar set up with my basics (Stunning fist, light ki strike, elemental strikes, etc). Those are tied to my number bar on my keyboard. I then have another bar with my other strikes such as QP, jade strike, eagle claw, etc.. that is tied to the buttons on the side of my G600 mouse. The combination means I can effectively use my strikes while being able to move around.

Another note on strikes, I find that pacing is the key. I can't just bash buttons fast to try and get the strikes to work, but if I go at a pace, I am more successful... again, just my playstyle.

What I am trying to say is that the experience with the class can vary with the playstyle of the person. That is more prevalent with the monk than any other class in the game. Its partly why I love this class (well, that and punching things is so much fun). I would love to see the MRR get buffed. I think make that small tweak and the monk class is good to go.

[Infinitedrift]

Too bad the finishing moves are less than useless and any effort made to click the attacks is an opportunity cost that's higher than the benefits.

Monk moves have been useless since their introduction, and have only become more useless as epics have scaled on and they've been forgotten.
I agree with OP of the thread in general, but the main thing that needs to be done is to restrict finishing moves greatly, and increase their effect 10 fold. Same with the fire/earth/etc strikes.

I'd say make em hurt bad, like (heroic levell*d6)+(epiclevel*2d20)*(MP*4). So at 200MP you'll be hitting for 2500. And set cooldown to like 7 seconds. Replace the old versions so you only have the best available. And then make the finishers actually good as well. Scale those up big time.
Some of the less up-to-date players might be thinking "but 2500 every 7 seconds*4 is super OP", to that I say, that's just 1400 DPS give or take. About 10-13% of the DPS you'll do as a Monk. Hardly big. If monks are OP from this change, nerf something else.

Also. Increase Ki costs, or nerf Ki gain. Make it an actual resource cause it's stupid atm. Spam whatever you want (i.e. nothing since it's all bad) whenever you want and you'll still be full Ki all the time.




If you put that much effort into stance swapping you're doing it wrong. Pick the stance that corresponds with your main stat and stick in that from 1>30. Or, if you can't be arsed to run haste pots, run air from 1>20 when you get alacrity 15%.

Well said!!!

[Infinitedrift]

I didn't miss your point, but rather that it would be bad unless they made the moves have 0 cooldown, and that would be a straight buff. That could lead to nerfs that hurt in the long run. I wouldn't mind the buff in the slightest - it indeed would be nice to save shortcut bar space, but what exists works.

LOL YES YOU DID.. Because I ALREADY SUGGESTED THAT THE CD BE REDUCED!!!! You're agreeing with me under the belief that you are arguing!

[DrawingGuy]

The problem comes when you count all the attacks you do. In the time it takes to recycle and earth earth earth you've done 2.25*4*2 = 18 normal attacks. Getting +2 multiplier on every 19th attack isn't a lot. Put into numbers that's 2/19=10% more crit multiplier = 1.2% DPS roughly. I tried to test but didn't test thoroughly enough to see if the finisher +2 multi applies to doublestrikes as well, if that's the case than it's 20% more multiplier = 2.4% DPS. And if you cycle that perfectly with Fire dark fire finisher you'll get a total of maybe 5% more DPS. More than my hyperbole, but not worth the effort in R10 gameplay when there are more important things to keep track of.

In my mind, a class revolving around combos and finishing moves should get more than 5% dps from said feature. In my mind it should be at least 25% of their DPS.

That math ignores the elemental attacks themselves to build up to the finishers. Fists of Iron, a +3[W] + 1 multiplier + 1 crit range attack. Earth attacks which +12 and +16 damage that can crit and scale (along with on-crit acid damage). And all of these attacks can doublestrike. The Fire and Dark hits scale with melee power, though unlike Earth (other than acid on crit), can be resisted, so this means the DPS increase is more varied. Taking the effort DOES make a real impact. Are combos a priority over CC, positioning, and debuffs? No. Could they change it to make a larger portion of Monk DPS? Sure, though that will likely come with base DPS nerfs unless the devs think power creep gave room for it. Though if they do that, it would be required for them to include Ki changes as well so that the combos can be used effectively at lower levels. It would also mean that in situations where you can't fit in combos, you would lose a significant portion of your DPS. As it stands, I use Monk combos whenever I can, with earth being the priority combo in most cases. R10 gameplay is typically what I run at end game, and still get my combos in.

TL;DR - I'm not saying there is not room for change, just that claims they are worthless or not worth your time is incorrect.


@Infinitedrift - seriously was not trying to turn this into an argument. I was saying "reduced cooldown" is not enough unless the cooldown is reduced to zero. I was simply defining the extremes which I think the change you suggested would require, and the impact of them. Would I accept the buff? Certainly, unless it came with nerfs that I think would hurt the class overall. But I also don't think this kind of change is priority over the other concerns with Monk. What we have works, it just is more button intensive. Simple as that.

[Rog]

One thing we might all be dancing around is the fact that we all play monks differently. I think the biggest factor, especially with combos, is how your playstyle is set up? What are you using hardware wise to play DDO? Is it a simple keyboard and mouse? If so then I definitely can see where 16 hotbars worth of clickies are a pain! On the flip side, if you are using a more advanced set up and have certain functions macro'd, then it becomes a little easier to pay and control.

I run a light monk, always have as its just what I prefer. I don't use alot of hotbars. I have a bar set up with my basics (Stunning fist, light ki strike, elemental strikes, etc). Those are tied to my number bar on my keyboard. I then have another bar with my other strikes such as QP, jade strike, eagle claw, etc.. that is tied to the buttons on the side of my G600 mouse. The combination means I can effectively use my strikes while being able to move around.

Another note on strikes, I find that pacing is the key. I can't just bash buttons fast to try and get the strikes to work, but if I go at a pace, I am more successful... again, just my playstyle.

What I am trying to say is that the experience with the class can vary with the playstyle of the person. That is more prevalent with the monk than any other class in the game. Its partly why I love this class (well, that and punching things is so much fun). I would love to see the MRR get buffed. I think make that small tweak and the monk class is good to go.

my monk build has been nerfed since the class came out i played my monk as a tank.
i do not play monk trees in low levels i run wisdom all the way up.
i run a 90 MRR seems to work pretty good.
i think the devs every time they think about the monk class is how can we power nerf mojo today.
so i stopped complaining.
original poster is correct monk lines need badly updated.