Hardcore uber-survival build - Elf 9/8/3 Druid/Fighter/Barb

[Thrudh]

A couple of these are BtA and easily farmable.

o https://ddowiki.com/page/Shield_(spe...y_item_sources

I leveled past the gloves from Korthos.

And I don't really like the armor ones. Swapping armor takes time.

But I definitely should have farmed Kind of a Big Deal.

Shield wand for now works.

[Thrudh]

Made it to 20 and 5000 favor.

Never died once.

Maybe had 2-5 close calls (where close call means I was nervous for a second because I went below 50% health)

Super high AC, displacement, great PRR and MRR, 750 hp at level 19 plus 150 temp hp when I needed it.

Great build for Hard-core.

DPS was not great. Would be pretty bad playing mid-to-high reaper on a normal server, but playing heroic elite on hardcore??

Perfect build for that.

[Thrudh]

Ready to play this one again...

But depends on the rewards if I go for 5000 favor again... Maybe will try this in reaper instead and go for reaper points.

[C-Dog]

Usually avoid the melee sort, but this is tempting (and impressive, Respect for the concept, and sharing!) - couple questions...

This thread seems to be, in part, reflections on the design process as you try one possible decision rather than some other attractive direction. Any second thoughts on what you tried here?

For example...

...
My starting stats were balanced... Probably not a good idea... I thought maybe I might need to take Dodge or Combat Expertise to get Improved Trip, so I put points in DEX and INT and I probably shouldn't have.

STR 15 (+2 tome from 1750 favor went here, and all level ups)
DEX 11
CON 14
INT 13
WIS 12
CHA 8

I probably should have put more in STR and CON and less in Dex and Int and Wis. 2-4 points in CHA would have been nice too for UMD.

I don't regret the INT that much...

Would you change the starting stats, then? Or is this final(ish)?

• 1 - Barbarian 1 - Elf Dragonmark (3 charges of Invisible)
• 2 - Barbarian 2

Spend the first 8 APs in Frenzied Berzerker to get Blood Tribute.
This 150 temp hp is HUGE in the lower levels. 10% movement speed is good too. And Rage of course.

• 3 - Druid 1 - Stunning Blow
• 4 - Druid 2

At this point you get Bear Form and start using Maul. Put all APs into Nature's Protector.

• 5 - Druid 3

At 5th level, you get Lesser Restoration...
...

• 12 - Fighter 1

...

I find that an early(ish) level of Fighter opens that +8 to hit/+8 Kensai damage boost which is just money in lowbie heroics, and a bargain at 4 AP. Would that be an idea around L 3-5 or so (and then respec back out later), or do you feel beelining to Druid 3 and Restoration/etc. is The Way?


Lastly, what is the advantage to starting w/ maul when you're going S&B at the end? Just 2HF overkill damage/skeleton hammering?

[Thrudh]

Usually avoid the melee sort, but this is tempting (and impressive, Respect for the concept, and sharing!) - couple questions...

This thread seems to be, in part, reflections on the design process as you try one possible decision rather than some other attractive direction. Any second thoughts on what you tried here?

For example...

Would you change the starting stats, then? Or is this final(ish)?



I find that an early(ish) level of Fighter opens that +8 to hit/+8 Kensai damage boost which is just money in lowbie heroics, and a bargain at 4 AP. Would that be an idea around L 3-5 or so (and then respec back out later), or do you feel beelining to Druid 3 and Restoration/etc. is The Way?


Lastly, what is the advantage to starting w/ maul when you're going S&B at the end? Just 2HF overkill damage/skeleton hammering?

Maul is a druid spell specific to Bear form. So still using S&B the entire time.

Does an extra 2[W] to the target, and applies a bleeding effect that deals 1d4 slash damage every 2 seconds for 8 seconds. Striking the target successfully may also intimidate the target based on the player's intimidate skill.

1 level of fighter to open access to Attack Boost or Haste Boost is a decent idea.

I stayed with Druid to get all the defensive spells, and spent all my APs in Nature's Protector (after the first 8 in Barbarian for Blood Tribute). I was paranoid about maxing out defense in Hardcore instead of offensive, but 1 level of fighter earlier on could definitely work.

[C-Dog]

Maul is a druid spell specific to Bear form. So still using S&B the entire time.

Derp. Shows how often I've run Druid (i.e. exactly zero).

1 level of fighter to open access to Attack Boost or Haste Boost ... earlier on could definitely work.

On a build that can use the boost (some few have better options), the flat +8/+8 addition is great for low heroics, but once damage consistently approaches ~30+/hit then the +30% attack speed boost is mathematically better (130% x 30 ~+9), as Duration is the same w/ either.

o https://ddowiki.com/page/Kensei_enha...s#Action_Boost

And if a build gets a similar or better boost from its "main" tree, it may need to dump that detour into Kensai to spend somewhere else to progress to higher Tiers more easily there.


4 AP for 5 boosts/shrine is a great bargain imo, and a great offensive safety net. I'll use it on Ranged multi's (that can squeeze in early Fighter 1) for (mini)-bosses, certain Champs and Reapers, exceptionally large groups of mobs, anything that I want dead asap in early Heroics. There is a point where killing faster is the better defensive choice.

[C-Dog]

As I was mocking this up I realized you missed the obvious name for this build. So, in token of appreciation (and so I can see it all at a glance), I present your original in Char Planner format...

Elf-Bear-Pig (a Hard Core survivability multi-beast)
9/8/2 Druid/Fighter/Barbarian
True Neutral Elf


Level Order

1. Barbarian . . . 6. Druid . . . . .11. Druid . . . . .16. Fighter
2. Barbarian . . . 7. Druid . . . . .12. Fighter. . . . 17. Fighter
3. Druid. . . . . .8. Druid. . . . . 13. Fighter . . . .18. Fighter
4. Druid. . . . . .9. Druid. . . . . 14. Fighter . . . .19. Fighter
5. Druid. . . . . 10. Druid. . . . . 15. Fighter


Stats
. . . . . . . .28pt . . Tome . . Level Up
. . . . . . . .---- . . ----. . .--------
Strength. . . . 15. . . .+2. . . .4: STR
Dexterity . . . 11. . . . . . . . 8: STR
Constitution. . 14. . . . . . . .12: STR
Intelligence. . 13. . . . . . . .16: STR
Wisdom. . . . . 12
Charisma. . . . .8. . . . . . . .


Skills
. . . . . B .B. D. D. D. D. D. D. D. D. D. F .F. F .F. F .F. F .F
. . . . . 1 .2. 3. 4. 5. 6. 7. 8. 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19
. . . . .---------------------------------------------------------
Spot. . . 2 . . 4. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 22
Heal. . . 2 . . 1. 4. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. . . . . . . . . . . . . 14
Swim. . . 4 .1. . . . 1. 1. 1. 3. 1. 1. 1. . . . . . . . . . . . . 14
UMD . . . 1 .1. . . . 1. 1. 1. . .1 . . 1. ½ .½. ½ .½. ½ .½. . .½. 10½
Jump. . . 4 .1. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5
Haggle. . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . .1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .2
Tumble. . . .½. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ½
. . . . .---------------------------------------------------------
. . . . .20 .5. 5. 5. 5. 5. 5. 5. 5. 5. 5. 3 .3. 3 .3. 3 .3. 2 .3
Max . . .20 .5. 5. 5. 5. 5. 5. 5. 5. 5. 5. 3 .3. 3 .3. 3 .3. 3 .3


Feats

.1. . . . : Least Dragonmark: Shadow
.3. . . . : Stunning Blow
.6. . . . : Natural Fighting
.9. . . . : Knight's Training
12. . . . : Extend Spell OR Natural Fighting
12 Fighter: Improved Critical: Slashing
13 Fighter: Power Attack
15. . . . : Natural Fighting OR Extend Spell
15 Fighter: Tactical Training
17 Fighter: Heavy Armor Combatant
18. . . . : Natural Fighting
19 Fighter: Tactical Combatant

.4 Druid. : Wild Shape 1: Bear
.7 Druid. : Wild Shape 1: Wolf
10 Druid. : Wild Shape 2: Dire Bear


Spells

1. Jump (3), Ram's Might (3), Maul (4), Takedown (6), <Any>
2. Lesser Restoration (5), Roar (5), Resist Energy (6), <Any>, <Any>
3. Shred (7), Sleet Storm (7), Neutralize Poison (8), <Any>
4. Summon Nature's Ally IV (9), Freedom of Movement (9), Cure Serious Wounds (9), <Any>
5. Death Ward (11), Stoneskin (11)

Enhancements (20 of 76 AP)

Elf (12 AP)

• Elven Accuracy
  1. Phiarlan Dragonmark Focus III, Aerenal Weapon Training
  2. Lesser Dragonmark of Shadow, Aerenal Weapon Training
  3. Greater Dragonmark of Shadow

Frenzied Berserker (8 AP)

• Die Hard
  1. Extra Rage I, Die Harder III
  2. Blood Tribute III

Leveling Guide

1. FB0 Die Hard; FB1 Die Harder I, II, III
2. FB1 Cracking Attack I; FB2 Blood Tribute I, II, III

----------------

Starting Stats:

My starting stats were balanced... Probably not a good idea... I thought maybe I might need to take Dodge or Combat Expertise to get Improved Trip, so I put points in DEX and INT and I probably shouldn't have.

STR 15 (+2 tome from 1750 favor went here, and all level ups)
DEX 11
CON 14
INT 13
WIS 12
CHA 8

I probably should have put more in STR and CON and less in Dex and Int and Wis. 2-4 points in CHA would have been nice too for UMD.

Skills: Had to fake this to some extent...

Skills, get half-ranks in UMD every level, and build up Jump and Swim and Heal and Spot.
...(later post)...
...I don't regret the (13) INT that much... It does let me keep Spot and UMD maxed even while leveling up Fighter levels. Spot is pretty nice - its a class skill for Druids - I spot most traps at this point (I'm using a +10 spot Slavers ring - that also has +18 False Life and +8 Accuracy)

Spells: Not a full spell list, so many are up to you. Take the best "Cure X Wounds" spell for level, swap out to utility spells as you get something better.

Enhancements: Disclaimer - At several points, Thrudh says words to the effect of "Put all points into X tree...". I don't have any familiarity with either Druids or their enhancements, so rather than fake these (and proly fail tragically) I'm skipping them. Read the thread for more.

2 options @ L12...

At 12, you have some decisions to make.

Do you want Displacement from the Elf enhancement line first or are you are going for Tier 5 Druid enhancements first? Force of Nature is pretty nice, letting you use metal armor and metal Tower Shields. But of course, self-cast Displacement is huge. I'd probably go displacement first...

Okay, just hit 16...

Trying to figure out which way to go with Enhancements now.

I have 12 AP in Elf for Displacement
I have 9* AP in Frenzied Berzerker for Blood Tribute
I have 39 AP in Nature's Protector

I have nearly everything good I'd want out of Nature's Protector... I have left +2 STR on the table there, so I could spend 4 AP there.

...Vanguard is out. I think I'll just spend 8 in Nature's Warrior to get Flight, and then spend the rest grabbing the low-hanging fruit in the barb trees.

(* 8 is all you need for BT; I have no idea where/how the 9th AP was spent. Maybe extra Rage(s), and/or an extra Action boost?... )

L20: 3 choices, ymmv -

At this point, you're 9/8/2 Druid/Fighter/Barbarian.

Not sure what to take for 20th level... Maybe a 3rd level of Barbarian to open up some enhancements? (or if you are thinking crazy long-term, maybe take the 9th level of Fighter so you can get the Fighter past-life if you TR).

Afaict, this build was not meant to go to 30, since there are zero comments about taking it in that direction.

[Sholvah]

Gnome for dragonmark shield ;D

[Thrudh]

Heh, Elf-Bear-Pig...

Nice write up!

[arminius]

I've never run a melee druid or bear before, only a caster druid which I enjoyed. I am trying this for the first time in HCL4. So, thank you! It seems like there are a lot of hidden assumptions (ie, assumptions that the reader knows what he or she is doing with bear builds, which I do not) in this write-up, but it is an interesting challenge to try to backwards engineer it so that the reasons for the choices make sense.

[arminius]

Being a bear newbie, the most major questions I have are about Rage, especially, if Rage stops Druid spells until you get the Tier 4 enhancement that allows them (Beast Awakened), and Druid special attacks like Maul and Shred are considered spells, are Maul and Shred blocked by Rage? And if so, do you just not use Rage until you get the enhancement that allows raged casting?

Also, there is a Tier 2 enhancement in NP that is another kind of Rage substitute (Rage of the Beast). Do you take that in addition to the Barb Rages to supplement them, or is it redundant or not applicable?

[Discpsycho]

Also, there is a Tier 2 enhancement in NP that is another kind of Rage substitute (Rage of the Beast). Do you take that in addition to the Barb Rages to supplement them, or is it redundant or not applicable?

Rage of the Beast is identical to Barbarian Rage, except that it's granted by an enhancement line instead of a class feat. You can use them interchangeably; it's typed as a "barbarian rage", as suggested by Primal Beast (T2), which says "While using Barbarian Rage in animal form you gain +[5/10] Melee Power."

Take Rage of the Beast, if only for access to Primal Beast, Enduring Beast, Undying Beast, etc.

Being a bear newbie, the most major questions I have are about Rage, especially, if Rage stops Druid spells until you get the Tier 4 enhancement that allows them (Beast Awakened), and Druid special attacks like Maul and Shred are considered spells, are Maul and Shred blocked by Rage? And if so, do you just not use Rage until you get the enhancement that allows raged casting?

This is only a partial answer, based on my experience doing a racial druid life on a softcore server (currently level 9)

I didn't try bear until I had at least 24 points to spend in the tree, and wouldn't recommend it with fewer than 7 druid levels. Instead, I put points into Nature's Warrior; wolf's ghost touch, movespeed, temp SP, and dodge action boost are all really helpful at low level. The wolf pet is reasonably helpful for the first few levels, so Brother Wolf was a good QoL improvement. There aren't huge hordes of mobs in many low-level quests, so single-target attacking was less of an issue. I don't know if Maul/Shred work without the "cast while raging" feature because I didn't swap to bear until that point.

At Druid 7, Bear (and Nature's Protector) becomes a lot more appealing because you get:
- At least two Natural Fighting feats, which give +90% strikethrough
- Dire Bear for another +20% strikethrough (total 110%) so you'll always hit two targets
- Great Maul (NP Core #3 is bugged) for combo Intim + Stunning Blow
- Rising Fury for up to +10 stacking Str/Con
- Vigor and CSW to support the Rising Fury playstyle tradeoff of being hit to deal more damage
- By this point, at least 24 points for the full Raging Beast line so you don't need to drop rage to cast

[arminius]

I have this build to 11 on HCL 4, and it is pretty fun so far. But is this an issue?:

Rage blocks casting of Greater Dragonmark of Shadow (Displacement), and it seems to be no worries, there is Beast Awakened coming soon which allows you to cast while raged. But it specifically states "You can now cast *Druidic* magic while raged."

Does the Displacement Dragonmark cast count as something that you can cast while raged with Beast Awakened? And if not, isn't that a big hole to have to micromanage around?

[Discpsycho]

Does the Displacement Dragonmark cast count as something that you can cast while raged with Beast Awakened? And if not, isn't that a big hole to have to micromanage around?

I would be shocked if it did. On softcore, my main is running bear and can't use Dragonmark of Passage (base or Lesser) while raged, despite having Beast Awakened

[arminius]

I would be shocked if it did. On softcore, my main is running bear and can't use Dragonmark of Passage (base or Lesser) while raged, despite having Beast Awakened

I guess it is my mistake for not reading closely enough, but it just seems like a lot of the offensive and defensive strength of the build comes through rage, and to have to spend 2 feats and 12 AP on something that can't be used when raged seems a little perverse. Especially when Displacement is such a short duration, even when Extended.

I'll have to see how it works in practice. Thanks!