Questions about wolf builds

[marinersfan]

Hi all,
I've really enjoyed playing different types of druids, but one I haven't tried is a wolf melee build. I'm thinking about going str based with 5 cleric for str domain (I want evasion based on str to reflex). I also want to retain at least self healing via spells. Questions below:
1) different level split options - 12 druid/5 cleric/3 barb? More druid? Different 3rd class splash (rogue for sneak attack dice and trapping maybe)? I'd like decent self healing
2) best weapon type for druid in wolf form? Would bastard sword/dwarven axe + shield be best? For those weapons is it the thf feats? It doesn't look like wolf benefits from natural fighting feats, but thinking trying to get strike through is still the way to go if possible.

I guess another variant I'd be ok with is an evasion bear if it'd be superior.

Thanks all!

[unbongwah]

For both wolf and bear builds, 2H weapons are your best DPS option. You take the Natural Fighting feats to boost doublestrike, Melee Power, and (for bears) Strikethrough.

The THF feats don't apply directly to animal forms, but they can be used to unlock Strikethrough enhancements that stack with Natural Fighting (test results here). That is the "secret sauce" to heavily-MCed bear builds like this one.

If you want to max out the attack speed of wolves (which is really their forte vs bears) you need Winter Wolf form + Swift Hunter (tier-5 Nature's Warrior) which is also what grants Evasion. This constrains your multiclassing options, since most classes put their crit bonuses in the tier-5 Enhancements (e.g. barbarian).

Given that you're already going for cleric 5 for the Strength domain feat, you might as well do cleric 6 for the deity ability like Unyielding Sovereignty. You could do cleric 7 for level 4 spells, but I don't know that you need any of them unless you really want Divine Power.

So something like druid 12 / cleric 6 / barb 2 should have a decent mix of DPS and survivability. For enhancements: tier-5 Nature's Warrior / tier-4 Nature's Protector / tier-2 Frenzied Berserker. Plus you'll have both winter wolf and dire bear forms, so you can experiment to see which you prefer.

[unbongwah]

Rough draft of what I had in mind:

Wolfpriest
12/6/2 Druid/Cleric/Barbarian
True Neutral Human


Level Order

1. Druid           6. Druid          11. Druid          16. Cleric
2. Druid           7. Druid          12. Druid          17. Cleric
3. Druid           8. Druid          13. Druid          18. Cleric
4. Barbarian       9. Druid          14. Druid          19. Cleric
5. Barbarian      10. Druid          15. Cleric         20. Cleric


Stats
               32pt     34pt     36pt     Level Up
               ----     ----     ----     --------
Strength        18       18       18       4: STR
Dexterity        8        8        8       8: STR
Constitution    16       16       16      12: STR
Intelligence     8        8        8      16: STR
Wisdom           8        8        8      20: STR
Charisma        14       15       16      24: STR
                                          28: STR

Feats

 1        : Power Attack
 1 Human  : Two Handed Fighting
 3        : Natural Fighting
 6        : Natural Fighting
 9        : Natural Fighting
12        : Improved Critical: Slashing
15        : Quicken Spell
18        : Stunning Blow
21 Epic   : Overwhelming Critical
24 Epic   : Empower Healing Spell
26 Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting
27 Epic   : Epic Damage Reduction
28 Destiny: First Blood OR Elusive Target
29 Destiny: Dire Charge
30 Epic   : Epic Reflexes
30 Legend : Scion of: Arborea

 2 Druid  : Wild Shape 1: Wolf
 7 Druid  : Wild Shape 1: Bear
10 Druid  : Wild Shape 2: Winter Wolf
13 Druid  : Wild Shape 2: Dire Bear

16 Cleric : Strength Domain

15 Deity  : Follower of: Sovereign Host
20 Deity  : Unyielding Sovereignty


Enhancements (80 AP)

Nature's Warrior (39 AP)
Natural Adept, Nature's Senses, Nature's Bounty, A True Hunter
Extra Wild Empathy II, Beastial Nature II
Flight III, Improved Dodge III, Ghost Wolf, Double Strike Boost III
Fight III, Prey on the Weak II, Ghost Wolf Pack, Essence of the Shrike II
Fatal Harrier III
Alpha Strike III, Swift Hunter, Throat Rip, Jaws of Ice, Go for the Kill

Nature's Protector (23 AP)
Nature's Protector, Nature's Defense, Magical Beast
Rage of the Beast II, Enchanted Defense III, Fey's Blessing III
Primal Beast II, Grizzled Defense III
Enduring Beast II, Strength
Undying Beast, Beast Awakened

Frenzied Berserker (11 AP)
Die Hard
Power Rage II
Angry Arms III, Blood Tribute III

Warpriest (4 AP)
Smite Foe: Melee
Divine Might III

Human (3 AP)
Damage Boost
Improved Recovery

[marinersfan]

For both wolf and bear builds, 2H weapons are your best DPS option. You take the Natural Fighting feats to boost doublestrike, Melee Power, and (for bears) Strikethrough.

The THF feats don't apply directly to animal forms, but they can be used to unlock Strikethrough enhancements that stack with Natural Fighting (test results here). That is the "secret sauce" to heavily-MCed bear builds like this one.

If you want to max out the attack speed of wolves (which is really their forte vs bears) you need Winter Wolf form + Swift Hunter (tier-5 Nature's Warrior) which is also what grants Evasion. This constrains your multiclassing options, since most classes put their crit bonuses in the tier-5 Enhancements (e.g. barbarian).

Given that you're already going for cleric 5 for the Strength domain feat, you might as well do cleric 6 for the deity ability like Unyielding Sovereignty. You could do cleric 7 for level 4 spells, but I don't know that you need any of them unless you really want Divine Power.

So something like druid 12 / cleric 6 / barb 2 should have a decent mix of DPS and survivability. For enhancements: tier-5 Nature's Warrior / tier-4 Nature's Protector / tier-2 Frenzied Berserker. Plus you'll have both winter wolf and dire bear forms, so you can experiment to see which you prefer.

Thanks, Unbongwah. Particularly for the build framework. It's too bad wolf doesn't get more goodies from natural fighting feats compared with bears. What level of spells does 12 druid get me?

I was thinking a bit more about the evasion wolf build and wonder if you think a rogue splash, dex based acrobat might have better synergies? I'm not super familiar with the acrobat line but wonder if there'd be enough there to squeeze out more dps, plus getting evasion I'd be able to take a different tier 5 if there's a better one (though I'd lose some attack speed so not sure it'd be worth it). Was thinking maybe 18/2, 17/3, or splash in 5ish barbarian (or wiz???) and take one of those t5.
Thanks!

[unbongwah]

What level of spells does 12 druid get me?

Druid 12 gets four level 6 spell slots. I would take Jaws of Winter and Frostbite; the other two don't really matter, so...Mass Vigor and Fire Shield, I guess?

The other reason is for the level 12 Nature's Warrior enhancement which grants +1 crit multiplier. That plus Essence of the Shrike (temp SPs on crit) are why you'll want to use falchions on this build at higher levels. Or Sword of Shadow if you've got one, of course.

I was thinking a bit more about the evasion wolf build and wonder if you think a rogue splash, dex based acrobat might have better synergies?

The DEX to hit and damage cores of Acrobat should apply to staves while in animal form. However Acrobatics and Quick Strike don't work in animal forms, so you're losing two of the big DPS bonuses for staves.

I haven't seriously tried to put together a DEX-based wolf build, just because your 2H options are so limited. Apart from Acrobat, you could do e.g. monk <3|6> / fighter 6 / druid <8|11>: One with the Blade to make you centered, Ninja cores to provide DEX to hit and damage. But that costs you Swift Hunter (+10% attack speed), so it's hard to say it's an improvement over your original idea.

[marinersfan]

Druid 12 gets four level 6 spell slots. I would take Jaws of Winter and Frostbite; the other two don't really matter, so...Mass Vigor and Fire Shield, I guess?

The other reason is for the level 12 Nature's Warrior enhancement which grants +1 crit multiplier. That plus Essence of the Shrike (temp SPs on crit) are why you'll want to use falchions on this build at higher levels. Or Sword of Shadow if you've got one, of course.

The DEX to hit and damage cores of Acrobat should apply to staves while in animal form. However Acrobatics and Quick Strike don't work in animal forms, so you're losing two of the big DPS bonuses for staves.

I haven't seriously tried to put together a DEX-based wolf build, just because your 2H options are so limited. Apart from Acrobat, you could do e.g. monk <3|6> / fighter 6 / druid <8|11>: One with the Blade to make you centered, Ninja cores to provide DEX to hit and damage. But that costs you Swift Hunter (+10% attack speed), so it's hard to say it's an improvement over your original idea.

Thanks, probably str based build then . I might front load the cleric levels and go divine disciple/death domain till the druid levels dilute out it's effectiveness too much

[unbongwah]

Unless something changed recently, swapping domain feats is impossible after cleric level 5 due to the way domain feats are auto-granted. IIRC only a lesser reincarnation can change your domain after cleric 5.