Human Paladin: TWF vs Greatsword THF

[Waveclaw]

Which one is better? I'm currently using a supposedly TWF build pure paladin but due to greatswords being able to strike multiple foes at once, I'm considering switching. Currently at level 5, so switching feats would not be the main problem.

I know only Blade/Warforged get the deity feats for them...

If I should switch, (with a stat of str 16+1, dex 15, con 14, int 8, wis 8, cha 16) is it a good idea?

[Kaboom2112]

The "game" doesn't want pallies to be TWFing.

Don't fight the "game."

[FTPDDO]

THF is generally better for most classes including paladin. If you haven't already used it you can get a free feat swap by running the hall of the mark quest near the auctioneer in the marketplace. Here is a wiki link to the quest with the answers to the questions:

https://ddowiki.com/page/Hall_of_the_Mark

At level 5 the main feat you would want to change is two-weapon fighting to two-handed fighting.

Your stats are fine for two-handed fighting, the higher dex will help with reflex saves + allow you to take the precision feat which gives armor-piercing and improves your "to-hit" a little bit. The main issue will be your wisdom as you need 10+ spell level to cast spells, but that's not a huge deal as you get +2 from ship buffs and can take a potion of owl's wisdom and/or wear gear with wisdom bonuses.

In Knights of the Chalice, the left-most box on tier 3 gives your great sword favored weapon status. So regardless of religion it will be a favored weapon for you.

[unbongwah]

I know only Blade/Warforged get the deity feats for them...

That's not an issue anymore, since you can take KotC Holy Combatant: "Greatswords are considered as favored Weapons regardless of your religion." BTW wood elves can add falchions to their favored weapons too. Which means you can pick your deity based on which level 6 ability you want rather than which favored weapon it grants.

I posted a TWF paladin recently, but it definitely feels like the current KotC tree is weighed in favor of THF/2H weapons. So if you're starting from scratch and haven't invested in gear yet, it's probably better to switch to THF.

[MrChipinator]

THF is better in nearly every instance in the current meta-game. Level 1-30, your best bet for damage is THF as a "traditional" melee.

[Fauxknight]

Having a weapon as a favored weapon isn't even that big of a boost anyways for a paladin. For a FvS sure, they can't use their Cha/Wis to hit damage unless it's favored, but for a paladin a favored weapon just gets a small boost to hit and damage and usually just going for a better weapon more than makes up the difference.

[Hobgoblin]

Having a weapon as a favored weapon isn't even that big of a boost anyways for a paladin. For a FvS sure, they can't use their Cha/Wis to hit damage unless it's favored, but for a paladin a favored weapon just gets a small boost to hit and damage and usually just going for a better weapon more than makes up the difference.

not quite - especially if your fighting undead or evil outsiders - look at the t5 kotc

[Waveclaw]

Okay, then! Looks like THF is the way to go!

Any recommended weapons for it?

I posted a TWF paladin recently, but it definitely feels like the current KotC tree is weighed in favor of THF/2H weapons. So if you're starting from scratch and haven't invested in gear yet, it's probably better to switch to THF.

Ahh! Thanks! I was wondering where the build went! So if I switch to THF, anything I’ll have to change in the build?

[unbongwah]

It feels a little weird to tell you to abandon the build I made for you in favor of a different build but: other than swapping the TWF feats for THF, it's pretty much the same thing. I mean you would need less DEX for THF obviously but it's not really worth LRing now just to bump up STR another point or two. I prefer Precision over Power Attack, but it's easy to swap or take both.

[Waveclaw]

It feels a little weird to tell you to abandon the build I made for you in favor of a different build but: other than swapping the TWF feats for THF, it's pretty much the same thing. I mean you would need less DEX for THF obviously but it's not really worth LRing now just to bump up STR another point or two. I prefer Precision over Power Attack, but it's easy to swap or take both.

Sorry... :P

Also, what are exalted cleaves for? What do they do that greatswords don’t? (Sorry if this is a nooby question...)

[unbongwah]

Cleaves are AoE attacks which (along with Strikethrough) are how you fight multiple enemies at once. KotC provides Exalted + Avenging Cleave which replace the Cleave + Great Cleave feats you see on most fighter or barbarian builds. So you save two feats and the KotC Cleaves are more powerful.

They also get Holy Retribution which is more powerful that either Cleave but it used to use Turn Undead charges (now it's just a cooldown): "Executes a powerful holy cleave against nearby targets that deals +5[W] damage, 100 extra holy damage that scales with 200% Melee or Ranged Power, -6 to all ability scores for ten seconds, and recharges one Smite Evil charge to you. On Damage: Evil creatures may be forced to make a Will save (DC 10 + Paladin Level + Charisma Mod + Sunder Bonuses) or be destroyed. Evil creatures under 1000 HP must always make this save or die. Evil creatures between 1000 and 5000 HP have a 50% chance to be forced to make this save or die. Evil creatures with more than 5000 HP have a 33% chance to be forced to make this save or die."

[ValariusK]

In general, TWF is only a good deal if at least 2 of the following are true:
You can get 100% offhand strikes (e.g. through vistani, or ranger, or monk)
You can get 100% offhand stat to damage (e.g. monk or ranger)
You have a major source of on hit damage like lots of sneak attack dice

If most of those are true, TWF is a good fit, if not, SWF or THF is a better one.

[Hobgoblin]

Cleaves are AoE attacks which (along with Strikethrough) are how you fight multiple enemies at once. KotC provides Exalted + Avenging Cleave which replace the Cleave + Great Cleave feats you see on most fighter or barbarian builds. So you save two feats and the KotC Cleaves are more powerful.

They also get Holy Retribution which is more powerful that either Cleave but uses Turn Undead charges: "Executes a powerful holy cleave against nearby targets that deals +5[W] damage, 100 extra holy damage that scales with 200% Melee or Ranged Power, -6 to all ability scores for ten seconds, and recharges one Smite Evil charge to you. On Damage: Evil creatures may be forced to make a Will save (DC 10 + Paladin Level + Charisma Mod + Sunder Bonuses) or be destroyed. Evil creatures under 1000 HP must always make this save or die. Evil creatures between 1000 and 5000 HP have a 50% chance to be forced to make this save or die. Evil creatures with more than 5000 HP have a 33% chance to be forced to make this save or die."

just as a note it doesnt take turn undead charges - just a 30 sec cooldown

[Waveclaw]

Awesome! Definitely gonna use those KoTC cleaves as often as I can when I get them!

Any recommended greatswords for me to farm?

[Coffey]

Awesome! Definitely gonna use those KoTC cleaves as often as I can when I get them!

Any recommended greatswords for me to farm?

Sword of Shadow, Whirlwind

Can search further on ddowiki

[wedge712]

Awesome! Definitely gonna use those KoTC cleaves as often as I can when I get them!

Any recommended greatswords for me to farm?

White Plume Mountain for Echo of Blackrazor at 9 and Legendary Echo of Blackrazor at 29

[Waveclaw]

Sword of Shadow, Whirlwind

Echo of Blackrazor at 9 and Legendary Echo of Blackrazor at 29

Sounds great! What are their drop rates?

[Hobgoblin]

Sounds great! What are their drop rates?

lowish

but ones that will work are syrain weapons and barovian weapons - guaranteed drop rate

[RAFAR]

Awesome! Definitely gonna use those KoTC cleaves as often as I can when I get them!

Any recommended greatswords for me to farm?

I know these are low level ones but they can carry you to lv9-10 easily and they are BTA:

Guardian's Dagger - lv2 keen + red slot (--> meteoric star ruby?)
Nicked Greatsword - lv2, sonic damage + deadly3

Not exactly farming, but can be crafted by a friend as unbound: Holy prefix + Bludgeoning/Slashing suffix, preferably on an adamantine/cold iron blank or with a red slot (or both:P)

A thought for cleave-like attacks: they hit all targets within range and angle, while THF strikethrough only hits a limited number of targets, depending on your score, so it's worth using cleaves especially when there are a lot of mobs ahead, like a kobold swarm. For 2-3 targets, autoattacking might be better than cleaves, but i'm no expert.

[Waveclaw]

Okay, then! Will definitely work on them!

Kobold swarms better watch out!