End Warforged oppression

[Tyrande]

That's an expensive way to get a racial past life

FYI- You can use Wish for Warforged Past Life potion to skip playing a warforged.

[Soulfurnace]

FYI- You can use Wish for Warforged Past Life potion to skip playing a warforged.

You quoted me, yet my reply is the same. That's an expensive way for a past life.

[apocaladle]

Sure, you save DW clickies. Dispell hasn't been an issue, but sure, congrats. 3 inventory slots for a feat?
FOM protects from hold person. Really easy to get too!
You are NOT immune to earth grab. Source: Have been held in low levels, way too often, but that.

C'mon, you're arguing 9% dodge, and a feat, is worth saving some inventory space? For endgame?

Define "endgame"

Are you talking about r1 raids? In which case there are plenty of ways to repair yourself including: scion of mechanus, repair on hit filigree, wizards, sorcs, artis, bladeforged, etc.

Forged also wreck beholders as antimagic plus negs dont matter.

You can also get end game tank item sets with light or no armor for build flexability.

Also that 1 feat you are so worked up about what can you not afford because you had to take a body feat? In my experience a lot of the time I take some feats as there is nothing better and I usually have 1 or 2 somewhere in my build im not using anyway especially on heavy feat classes (monk, wizard, arti, fighter, ranger, alch)

[Soulfurnace]

Define "endgame"

Are you talking about r1 raids? In which case there are plenty of ways to repair yourself including: scion of mechanus, repair on hit filigree, wizards, sorcs, artis, bladeforged, etc.

Forged also wreck beholders as antimagic plus negs dont matter.

You can also get end game tank item sets with light or no armor for build flexability.

Also that 1 feat you are so worked up about what can you not afford because you had to take a body feat? In my experience a lot of the time I take some feats as there is nothing better and I usually have 1 or 2 somewhere in my build im not using anyway especially on heavy feat classes (monk, wizard, arti, fighter, ranger, alch)

r1 raids? Why would I talk about r1 raids?
r10 content, r5 raids, things like that.

Scion is a waste of dps, repair on hit fails horribly in endgame content, the next 3 are CLASSES and the last is a different RACE altogether.
Repair isn't a "self heal" bonus unless you're building for it. If you're building dps as a warforged, and you think you can self heal in high skulls, you either failed at dps, or you're abusing the fact LOH hits paladin forged twice. And that's still class-specific.

You can use endgame tank sets with light armour, which is pretty much useless for any real build. Aight.

The one feat is a outdated and inane cost that no other race pays, but the end result is still worse than simply running a fleshie with the same armour. You'll have lower AC and worse dodge.

[Kilgrave]

Warforged had complete immunity or resistance to a lot of stuff that affected other races, so back when DDO launched for balance reasons they had to use a feat for body armour type. At least that was the reason behind it as far as I remember it.

Since then warforged have been stripped of pretty much everything they had, I think the only thing left now is they still do not need to breathe underwater. But they still have to use a feat to get armour. In addition to that then other races have a lot more armours to choose from.

Probably not fair anymore no.

+1

[kanordog]

Why not just roll up a human

Human = f2p
Warforged = p2p
Aasimar/Dragonborn/Tiefling come only with positives because they are p2p

If I spend money on a product I would like it to be at least a bit better than something that is free.

[Aelonwy]

I agree but for a slightly different reason. Armor proficiency is part of class choice. But warforged are not granted equivalent body type/docent proficiency with class armor profs. Essentially every other race benefits more from class choice than warforged. So in lieu of that let warforged have body feats in their racial tree. They would still have to spend racial AP (AP tax) to improve themselves beyond the initial chassis but it would no longer be a feat tax when everyone else gets it as part of their class selection.

Do warforged benefit from being warforged yes, but they have significant drawbacks too, a feat tax shouldn't be one of them. And let's not even begin to pretend the Body feats compare well to regular Armor Profs nor docents to regular armor either in named item variety or availability nor in stats. Its wins some, loose, loose, loose as in win some racial bonuses loose feat, loose armor stats, loose NAMED armor variety and availability.

I own both warforged and bladeforged, but with the exception of some storage characters I haven't chosen to play war/bladeforged in years.

[apocaladle]

r1 raids? Why would I talk about r1 raids?
r10 content, r5 raids, things like that.

Scion is a waste of dps, repair on hit fails horribly in endgame content, the next 3 are CLASSES and the last is a different RACE altogether.
Repair isn't a "self heal" bonus unless you're building for it. If you're building dps as a warforged, and you think you can self heal in high skulls, you either failed at dps, or you're abusing the fact LOH hits paladin forged twice. And that's still class-specific.

You can use endgame tank sets with light armour, which is pretty much useless for any real build. Aight.

The one feat is a outdated and inane cost that no other race pays, but the end result is still worse than simply running a fleshie with the same armour. You'll have lower AC and worse dodge.

As the devs have claimed many times over:
"Reaper is not designed to be balanced"

Also if all you care about is max dps in r10 stuff then just dump the feat and pack dodge as if stuff is regularly hitting you, you will likely die anyway.

And you never answered my question what feat cant you fit due to the body feat?

You seem awfully upset over toasters not being balanced for r10, seems like a weird hill to die on, are you doing okay?

[SpartanKiller13]

How many of those are relevant at endgame instead of heroics? It's not worth the cost of a feat, and the fact that docents are MUCH worse than normal armour.

That's an expensive way to get a racial past life

Well if you want a Racial PL you can TR at 20 and not worry about endgame, no? Not seeing your issue here lol.

Energy Drain is pretty relevant at endgame, IMO. Being able to be Repaired is also quite relevant. It maxes out incoming Healing Hands, even if you don't run with Arcanes; also Bloodrage covers Healamp while Umbral Soul gets Repair Amp, so you're not even wasting a gearslot lol. Or if you are Arcane (as many WF are) you can self-heal directly, which is pretty relevant at endgame below like R10 lol.

If you're running R10 endgame, you're not after a Racial PL

[Ghwyn]

I agree but for a slightly different reason. Armor proficiency is part of class choice. But warforged are not granted equivalent body type/docent proficiency with class armor profs. Essentially every other race benefits more from class choice than warforged. So in lieu of that let warforged have body feats in their racial tree. They would still have to spend racial AP (AP tax) to improve themselves beyond the initial chassis but it would no longer be a feat tax when everyone else gets it as part of their class selection.

Do warforged benefit from being warforged yes, but they have significant drawbacks too, a feat tax shouldn't be one of them. And let's not even begin to pretend the Body feats compare well to regular Armor Profs nor docents to regular armor either in named item variety or availability nor in stats. Its wins some, loose, loose, loose as in win some racial bonuses loose feat, loose armor stats, loose NAMED armor variety and availability.

I own both warforged and bladeforged, but with the exception of some storage characters I haven't chosen to play war/bladeforged in years.

Well said.

WF has far more drawbacks, healing being one of them. Good luck getting a caster to repair you. Heck, I rarely get a cleric to heal in party when I'm playing tank. WF needs some love. Melee needs some love. I'd still like ranged be hit with a giant nerf bat.

[droid327]

Do warforged benefit from being warforged yes, but they have significant drawbacks too, a feat tax shouldn't be one of them. And let's not even begin to pretend the Body feats compare well to regular Armor Profs nor docents to regular armor either in named item variety or availability nor in stats. Its wins some, loose, loose, loose as in win some racial bonuses loose feat, loose armor stats, loose NAMED armor variety and availability.

The docent/body feat disconnect does create the possibility for some unique combinations, especially with regards to set armors. Warforged is the only way to get Wallwatch without an MRR cap, for instance, since there's no Med/Heavy armor in that set, creating a bit of an advantage for endgame WF Inquis. Other sets without both an Evasion and No-MRR-Cap armor option might have similar combinations, though I'm not sure how many are practical.

However, the current body feats are totally outdated and need a rework. I also support the idea of making them a L1 bonus feat. But they need some kind of scaling built in to mirror the scaling of armors themselves, with regards to AC and MDB.

I'd also like to see some way for WF to bridge the Hamp gap, since Docents come with Ramp. Maybe add a function to the Healer's Friend enhancement that grants you Hamp equal to 0.5/0.7/0.8 of your Ramp value, typed the same. Then at least you'd have 80% of the Hamp of a fleshie using the equivalent set items (and still a 20% Racial penalty to Positive heals), without having to slot several different types of Hamp gear alongside your types of Ramp.

[unbongwah]

Most of us have been saying for a long time that Warforged should get a free racial feat at level 1 they use to pick their body type. We've also been saying there should be a druid-compatible medium armor equivalent - call it "Darkwood Body" or whatever - and also that the light and (hypothetical) medium body types should be rebalanced to scale with level like regular armor does. Right now the major downside to Mithril Body (apart from the feat tax) is the MDB doesn't increase automatically; so when you get to epics and fleshsacks are wearing e.g. Celestial Chainmail which has MDB 13, you're still stuck with base MDB 5.

But since none of that has happened and I don't recall a dev ever saying it was gonna happen, I'm not exactly holding out for a Festivus miracle here.

[Arkat]

I do believe there should be a Medium Armor feat choice for Warforged/Bladeforged.

Call it Densewood Body or Ironwood Body. Either works.

[Soulfurnace]

As the devs have claimed many times over:
"Reaper is not designed to be balanced"

Sucks, because reaper is the only part of the game that's fun. Blowing through EE and one-hitting everything isn't remotely exciting, challenging or engaging.

Also if all you care about is max dps in r10 stuff then just dump the feat and pack dodge as if stuff is regularly hitting you, you will likely die anyway.

That's entirely how r10 doesn't work. PRR is a thing, and while PRR should've never been implemented, that's more useful than dodge.

For real tho, do you not play melee in high skulls? You get hit all the time, it's why there's heals.

You seem awfully upset over toasters not being balanced for r10, seems like a weird hill to die on, are you doing okay?

I think every race should be viable. That's a pretty good hill to die on.

Well if you want a Racial PL you can TR at 20 and not worry about endgame, no? Not seeing your issue here lol.

They aren't mutually exclusive, and I don't know why you're implying they are. TR into X race, make build, run r10 FTB's, TR and do it 2 more times. Pretty normal stuff.

Energy Drain is pretty relevant at endgame, IMO. Being able to be Repaired is also quite relevant. It maxes out incoming Healing Hands, even if you don't run with Arcanes; also Bloodrage covers Healamp while Umbral Soul gets Repair Amp, so you're not even wasting a gearslot lol. Or if you are Arcane (as many WF are) you can self-heal directly, which is pretty relevant at endgame below like R10 lol.

Energy drain is something I have level 5 clickies for. I don't care, at all, about it. There's no beholders in endgame, and the only mobs I notice actively giving negative levels are reapers.
Endgame below r10 is just max level. I don't care if you can heal r1, that's not endgame.
And sure, bloodrage covers it. Guess warforged is only allowed THF or arcane.

If you're running R10 endgame, you're not after a Racial PL

Again, not mutually exclusive. If I can't build strong enough for a pastlife AND r10, maybe I shouldn't be in r10. Luckily it's fine in r10, just worse than a fleshie.
Worse how? Aside from a wasted feat, the docent feats give WORSE defences than the equivalent armour. By a LOT. You're losing a ton of dodge.

[shadowspeaker]

One of the things that makes WF feel weak to me, as a WF lover since I started in 09, is the loss of racial immunities back around the Underdark pack. It would be nice to see those brought back. Or justa full revamp to bring them in line with other p2p races.